The US is winning in Iraq. Number do not lie.

[PornoDoggy]

Originally Posted by JR

how is that possible for an elected government, elected in an election where more people participated in any elections in the US?

Please - I do believe that Iraq has always had higher voter turnout than the U.S., even under the previous government. (That's not a completely fair comparison, and I know it.)

Interesting elections. Most of the declared candidates were unknown to the people voting for them, and went into hiding the minute they declared their candidacy in order to live to election day. The vote went pretty much along sectarian lines, and that situation is getting worse instead of better.

In quoting me you left off "In Iraq the Army is riddled with sectarian operatives, and the various and sundry militias are taking over the army in some regions of the country." This same scenario is playing out in other segments of the government - and the more it happens the less credibility it will have with the people.

[JR]

Originally Posted by PornoDoggy

This same scenario is playing out in other segments of the government - and the more it happens the less credibility it will have with the people.

i dont really care about Iraq or Bush to be honest. mostly, i think the discussions are interesting. i just think that people in these types of arguments tend to be so polarized that they lack any real objectivity on the subject and in spite of such polarized views, no one can admit they are biased and one sided. thats usually evident in the remarks and comments which completely dismiss any other perspective on the subject.

Iraq imploded when the army and other fighting forces dissapeared as the US/British et al rolled in. looting. no electricity, no medicines, no functioning schools, no functioning hospitals no water etc etc etc etc etc. it was the end of the world as we knew it according to some. it was a war that was going to cause the entire middle east to rise up against the US and cause revolutions everywhere.

people were quick to point out how Iraq was fucked beyond repair and quick to highlight all the shit that was going wrong. tremedous strides have been made since then which include democratic elections, new military, new police (who have enough conviction to work knowing they are targets of extremists and are frequently killed)... yet somehow, people seem to believe that things have not improved in spite of the obvious.

i would say that generally, no one can argue that the occupation was poorly planned. i would even support the argument that bush is borderline retarded. however, i really do not believe that things are as terrible as you and others would have us believe.

[JR]

Originally Posted by PornoDoggy

In quoting me you left off "In Iraq the Army is riddled with sectarian operatives, and the various and sundry militias are taking over the army in some regions of the country." This same scenario is playing out in other segments of the government - and the more it happens the less credibility it will have with the people.

are you saying this "problem" is worsening since day 1, or improving or remaining unchanged?

"...the less credibility it will have with the people" is an assumption on your part based on your interpretation of events. i think you will have a hard time making the case that the situation you mentioned above is getting worse and not better.

[PornoDoggy]

Originally Posted by JR

are you saying this "problem" is worsening since day 1, or improving or remaining unchanged?

"...the less credibility it will have with the people" is an assumption on your part based on your interpretation of events. i think you will have a hard time making the case that the situation you mentioned above is getting worse and not better.

I do think the situation on the ground in Iraq, particularly as it relates to the Iraqi Army, is deteriorating at this time.