Democrats doing their part!! Joe and other liberals can I get your stance on this?

[Mike AI]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060216/...NlYwMlJVRPUCUl

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Congressional Democrats on Wednesday introduced legislation that would repeal a law that gives vaccine, drug and medical device makers broad protection against lawsuits in a public health or bioterror emergency.

Democrats generally agree there should be some legal protections for certain vaccines but say the Republican version defined health emergency too broadly and did not compensate people who were injured.
The liability provision, strongly favored by Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist of Tennessee, was added to a defense bill enacted in December. Democrats would have an uphill struggle trying to repeal it.

Massachusetts Democrat Sen. Edward Kennedy (news, bio, voting record) and 20 other House and Senate Democrats wrote a letter to Republican leaders saying, "The provision included in the bill is not limited to vaccines for pandemic flu or other major threats to the nation's health, but could instead be used to allow manufacturers of virtually any drug or vaccine to escape responsibility for gross negligence or even criminal acts."

[JoesHO]

Big brother helping big business, Mike this is not suprise to you is it, I mean it has been going on for 6 yrs already.

The good people of the world like MR. Kennedy are just looking out for the common man.

We all can not be as fortunate as you. and therefore our stock investment in big buisness needs no MR. Frist protection.

[Mike AI]

Joe, do you really think Ted is looking out for the little guy???

[Biggy]

Who saw that 60 minutes or 20/20 report about another crony Bush has handling bioterror response - it aired maybe 2 weeks ago. The report was about a company who thought the gov't would purchase a large order of vaccinnes/medicines for the respiratory disease caused by anthrax or some other popular bio-weapon, and they only placed and order for like 150k of them, where the company expected it to be in the millions. 150k for the whole country, that will help a lot for sure!

When you take that info and mix it in with this law, I'd say it makes a lot of sense and this law is designed to help nothing but big business... why leave it open for interpretation? when the country and companies actually start making plans for a real bio-terror threat, you would have a point.

[Biggy]

Which is a 1. worse and 2. more realistic situation in the future.

1. A bioterror attack where a company releases vaccines which hurts, but not helps people.

2. A company releases a poor drug, which hurts people, under no pretense or immense pandemic/attack.

[Mike AI]

You can always tell when people have not had to deal with trial attorneys. Once you guys get successful enough to pop up on radar screens of the amublance chacers, come back and we can talk.

[Biggy]

Originally Posted by Mike AI

You can always tell when people have not had to deal with trial attorneys. Once you guys get successful enough to pop up on radar screens of the amublance chacers, come back and we can talk.

The point is, its a preventive measure that with this law, companies will take extra time to make sure their vaccines and drugs work, since there will always be a trial attorney waiting to milk them dry.

[Mike AI]

Originally Posted by Biggy

The point is, its a preventive measure that with this law, companies will take extra time to make sure their vaccines and drugs work, since there will always be a trial attorney waiting to milk them dry.

What happens when a drug works for 95% of the people take it, yet the other 5% croak. Should the drug be taken off market? Should company be sued into bankrupcy?

I do not think you understand how free market works.

[JoesHO]

Originally Posted by Mike AI

What happens when a drug works for 95% of the people take it, yet the other 5% croak. Should the drug be taken off market? Should company be sued into bankrupcy?

I do not think you understand how free market works.

Yes, 5% is not an acceptable risk, The doctors should know or at least have the patient sign a consent form releasing them from any Trial and error procedure.

[Biggy]

Originally Posted by Mike AI

You can always tell when people have not had to deal with trial attorneys. Once you guys get successful enough to pop up on radar screens of the amublance chacers, come back and we can talk.

well, if there is no very current and threatening problem like a bioterror attack or a pandemic, medicine is subject to FDA, no reason to hide behind terrorism. too much terrorism talk going around.

in an attack or pandemic, the 5% who die will die cause the meds didnt work on them, not because the meds caused it themselves no? and even if the meds did cause it themselves, companies will have the new defined law to protect them, and im sure much of the problems resulting in deaths is due to the threat/pandemic.

i point you to my post above where i laid out 2 distinct scenarios. we both know that one of those situations is both more realistc and worse. why leave it open for interpretation? why create loopholes...

[JR]

Originally Posted by JoesHO

Yes, 5% is not an acceptable risk, The doctors should know or at least have the patient sign a consent form releasing them from any Trial and error procedure.

having a 95% chance of surviving cancer in unnacceptable??? you go so far in the absurdity of your remarks at times that it's hard to believe you are not just executing some poorly concieved plan for page views. whats next? the counter on the main page is going to stop showing an impossible 1600 people online as a record and show 11,000?

[JoesHO]

Originally Posted by JR

having a 95% chance of surviving cancer in unnacceptable??? you go so far in the absurdity of your remarks at times that it's hard to believe you are not just executing some poorly concieved plan for page views. whats next? the counter on the main page is going to stop showing an impossible 1600 people online as a record and show 11,000?

My comments are based in real life, not your pseudo right wing doomsday beliefs.

[Mike AI]

Originally Posted by JoesHO

My comments are based in real life, not your pseudo right wing doomsday beliefs.

HAHAHAHA

Joe, if we were on the same side of an issue, I would have to seriously re-evaluate my posistion.

I think I could make a fortune and be very successful being your personal contrarian.

Your consistency is beyond reproach!

[PornoDoggy]

Originally Posted by Mike AI

You can always tell when people have not had to deal with trial attorneys. Once you guys get successful enough to pop up on radar screens of the amublance chacers, come back and we can talk.

Uhhh ... I know a little about that.

I used to work for the folks who fought the ambulance chasers. One of our clients was sued for manufacturing a defective ladder because it was unsafe if you took it apart and used the top half upside down. Another was sued several times a year because of the dangers of mixing alcohol, power saws, and body parts in your home workshop.

The lawsuits I saw and worked on related to pharma companies included some like that. There were others that would boggle your mind.

Offering limited liabilty guarantees to domestic vaccine manufacturers makes sense. I don't think that will do much help convince American pharma companies to make vaccines, however, because I believe that the reason they don't has little to do with potential liability and everything do it is the higher profit margins available from making pills to clean up your toenails.

The problem is that the bill passed by Congress come much closer to blanket relief at the expense of the consumer under the guise of protecting vaccine manufacturers.

[JR]

Originally Posted by JoesHO

My comments are based in real life, not your pseudo right wing doomsday beliefs.

what beliefs are those exactly? i dont really have ANY strong political beliefs. you care faaaaaaaaar more than i do and anytime i have commented it was simply to point out the inconsistency or absurdity of your impossibly one sided views.

the world is not black and white and "liberal" is not the one size fits all answer to all things good and holy and "conservative" is not the single, root cause of all evil. somewhere inbetween the two, there are people who posess the common sense to take a hard look at both sides of any given isssue before having any strong opinions about them. i try to do that... i might not always be successful but you on the other hand have replaced Dig420 and RawAlex where you are on the far end of the spectrum that all reason is absent and at the same time, you can't even begin to understand why the rest of the planet "doesn't get it". interesting to watch people hate bush so intensely and never realize their own reasoning has begun to run parallel with the hitlers of the world.

i really have no idea what "psuedo rightwing doomsday beliefs" even means. the more you direct conversation at me, it becomes increasingly apparent that you really have no idea what any of my beliefs are.

[JoesHO]

Your context is once again skewed when you mentioned Hitler and Bush in the same sentencing.

Context is everything.

[JoesHO]

One thing I know for sure, is I like to bust balls, My political beliefes will not matter at the end of the day here on Oprano, and will not effect my business good or bad ....

I will just be happy in the fact I am right, and you conservatives are wrong and more hypocritcal than a born again christian .

[JR]

Originally Posted by JoesHO

Your context is once again skewed when you mentioned Hitler and Bush in the same sentencing.

Context is everything.

i guess thats your way of saying "uhmm... i really need some more time". no hurry, don't rush on my account

[Mike AI]

I think Joe was more lucid when smoking.

[JoesHO]

Originally Posted by JR

i guess thats your way of saying "uhmm... i really need some more time". no hurry, don't rush on my account

No reason to Rush, JR if the whole world and the majority of this country can not convince you, who am I to try ......

[JR]

Originally Posted by JoesHO

No reason to Rush, JR if the whole world and the majority of this country can not convince you, who am I to try ......

i think bush is an idiot... and still have no idea what you are talking about.

[JoesHO]

Originally Posted by JR

i think bush is an idiot... and still have no idea what you are talking about.

Well I agree with you There .

I think we differ on why we think he is an idiot though, so you position is still safe.

do you think he is an idiot because he has abondened his core base of fundemental conservatives?

[JoesHO]

Originally Posted by Mike AI

I think Joe was more lucid when smoking.

Well they say more blood flows to the head when your not smoking.

More blood flow, bigger hard on, therefore less lucid.

[JR]

Originally Posted by JoesHO

Well I agree with you There .

I think we differ on why we think he is an idiot though, so you position is still safe.

do you think he is an idiot because he has abondened his core base of fundemental conservatives?

i think he is an idiot because he has the IQ of a 1/2 retarded baboon and the public speaking ability of a drunk 6 year old. i am not sure why you think i am so extreme in my "position" or why you even think you know what my "position" is.

[JoesHO]

Well I do know how to Read JR and given the fact that you are always on the side of the right wing. I guess i just somehow figured it out in all my simpletoness

[JR]

Originally Posted by JoesHO

Well I do know how to Read JR and given the fact that you are always on the side of the right wing. I guess i just somehow figured it out in all my simpletoness

you might consider that others don't see the world and issues in such extremes as you do. i dont really care who is president, if taxes double tomorrow or if welfare is abolished. i will adjust and survive and be happy and secure in the knowledge that i will do that better than most.

besides, people arguing with emotion are easier to fuck with than people arguing with logic and make for much better entertainment - but since you chose to skip the humiliation associated with defending your one sided and intollerant views and chose to simply declare yourself "right" in everything you believe, a tactic which no doubt serve grade schoolers everywhere well, i will leave you to being right about everything while i go back to work

[Mike AI]

JR you will be a great parent. You have patience beyond the Saints.

[JoesHO]

Originally Posted by Mike AI

JR you will be a great parent. You have patience beyond the Saints.

You guys just know I am right LOL

[Jace]

Originally Posted by Biggy

2. A company releases a poor drug, which hurts people, under no pretense or immense pandemic/attack.

um...this happens all the time, we just don't hear about it a lot of the time

FDA approval is a joke

[JoesHO]

Just for you that dont pay attention....

today a secret deal was made by the republicans to not investigate the ILLEGAL wire tapping that has taken place.

instead a compromise of a promise from the administration to change the legal wording to fit what they need to do will be done ....

so since " it will become legal under new wording" there is no since in investigating the crimes already committed....

hmmmm how can even stupid conservitaves follow along with trampling the constitution so badly at every turn ? Do the Mullahs run USA now to? When will the beheadings begin ?

Lets all celebrate with a little party dance!
http://www.glumbert.com/media/rave.html

[Jace]

there is way too much politics around here

I am going to start bumping the politics threads off the first page when I see them LOL