I cannot stand some people...

[CDSmith]

There's a movie with Goldie Hawn in it that comes to mind... Bird on a wire?... I forget.

Anyway, at one point she has to retrieve a certain item, I think it's a stuffed animal, and it had been given to another couple's little girl, she was maybe 6 yrs old. Anyone remember this? Goldie goes over to their ritzy luxury appartment and asks for the doll or bear, whatever, and the little girl is reluctant to give it up.

The parents start doing the "talking to her like she's an adult" thing.....
"Well, honey, sometimes we have to be big about things"
"So.. can you give the bear up?"
etc etc
The girl becomes selfish and bratty, and the "reasoning" from the parents goes on and on..... until finally Goldie get's miffed and says "Oh for GAWD SAKES (steps forward and grabs the damned bear) who's in CHARGE here?" and she leaves... the parents standing there looking stunned.

That's the question with some so-called parents.... who the hell is in charge? Also, some parents nowadays do this thing where they become "friends" with their kid, like buddies, pals..... I'll tell you this much, when I was a kid there was no doubt whatsoever who was in charge, and every one of us kids (5 in all) continue to this day to have respect and love for our mom and dad. One reason is that we got damn well disciplined when we needed/deserved it.

Not abuse. Discipline. Real discipline, not this "time out" shit.

Do I sound angry? You bet I'm angry.... when I see more and more young kids out there cocking off at adults instead of listening to them... I've seen kids threaten their parents with things as "I'm gunna report you for abuse" when they don't get their own way (yes, I have actually seen this unfold right in front of me)...and is it me or does it seem like there are more and more young people doing wanton destruction of property, stealling cars, etc, over the last 15 years or so?

Anyway, in reading back over this thread I can see that this is a huge issue and a big rant for many, and the most frustrating part of it is that there is no definitive solution to it. On one hand the notion of having mandatory parental training before people are allowed to concieve is kind of attractive for certain reasons... I mean really, you have to obtain a license and take training to drive a car, legally own a gun, etc, yet no formal training to take on the role of parent, the most important role in the world.

On the other hand, to start regulating such basic human functions seems rather Orwelian..... thus the dilema. What's the answer? Maybe it's time to bring back the spanking into fashion? Seems to me a good sound spanking was something I got as a kid when I acted up too badly, and so it was with a lot of people I know. Gee, come to think of it we even watched unedited Bugs Bunny cartoons (the horror!), and we all turned out pretty well. I've certainly never ran around like a hellion in a restaruant ever, I've never stolen a car or ran a key down the side of someone's new SUV.

In closing I'd like to say that I don't believe that a lack of discipline is the only contributing factor to the problem. I believe that more parents have to also be good role models for their kids. It is the combination of proper discipline and setting a good example that it seems a lot of people have forgotten out there.

Cheers.

And Trev, no worries.

[MorganGrayson]

CD...that was an excellent post and earned you points!

One of my favorite compliments came from one of my daughters. She said "you know one of the reasons I love you?" I said "what?" She said "because you're the only 'Mom' who dresses and acts like a 'Mom.'" She went on to explain about some other kid's mothers and how they dressed like their daughters and behaved like them, too.

Children *need* discipline in order to function. Life is hard enough. You have to know what the rules are. Study after study after study has proclaimed loudly that kids freak out if they don't have boundaries. They need them to feel safe.

I despise people who treat children like "short adults." They aren't "short adults," they're CHILDREN. Their brains function differently. The ability to understand and cope with "delayed gratification" doesn't even start firing in the brain until they're approaching or in their teens.

I really wish I could have seen the facial expression I have that caused my children to freeze and do a mental rewind on the last five minutes of their life to search for whatever grievious error they had just committed. (It was fun to watch them do that.) They'd find it and apologize. Sometimes it was a small thing, like forgetting to say "please" or "thank you." Sometimes it was a bigger thing like "having a tone" when they spoke to their parents.

There's no simple solutions to problems like this, CD. Schools have classes that do things like the "sack of flour" project. (Sometimes it's an egg.) My kids did it with a five pound sack of flour. They were told that was an infant and to carry it around and care for it as if it were an infant, to teach them about the responsibilities of parenthood. (I babysat the sacks of flour for them.) Some kids took it deadly seriously, some kids didn't. They thought it was a big joke. Those kids are going to grow up to be real parents someday and it's a scary thought.