Bird Flu Epidemic

[OldJeff]

Originally Posted by JR

PD.. where did I ever make fun of legitimate concerns? What issues am I dismissing? Where has there been a discussion of this issue and the legitimate concerns that would need to be addressed?

I was mostly addressing the original post which typifies the rationality and tone any news item with the word "bush" in it.

The threat is real. Its a real problem unlike any we have faced in history. How do we deal with it? Bush asked Congress to think about the issue and you are pointing out the legal issues that have to be thought about. Bush can't give the government more power.

There are 116 cases IN THE WORLD, half of which were fatal (and I would bet a lot that the fatalities are elderly)

The little word IF is used by Bush himself

IF the virus mutates, IF it becomes easy to pass on to humans.

Giving him the use of the military as police AT THIS TIME is unnecessary.

IF there is an outbreak of something major, then we are talking about a totally different scenario.

Right now we got some dead birds in Asia. And there have been a hell of a lot more deaths from AIDS, maybe we should round up all the AIDS paitents somewhere, what do you think ?

[Dravyk]

Wait! The birds are WMDs! We're at war! Chang told me so.

[Rolo]

Originally Posted by Dravyk

Wait! The birds are WMDs! We're at war! Chang told me so.

Why H5N1 is of particular concern

Of the 15 avian influenza virus subtypes, H5N1 is of particular concern for several reasons. H5N1 mutates rapidly and has a documented propensity to acquire genes from viruses infecting other animal species. Its ability to cause severe disease in humans has now been documented on two occasions. In addition, laboratory studies have demonstrated that isolates from this virus have a high pathogenicity and can cause severe disease in humans. Birds that survive infection excrete virus for at least 10 days, orally and in faeces, thus facilitating further spread at live poultry markets and by migratory birds.

The epidemic of highly pathogenic avian influenza caused by H5N1, which began in mid-December 2003 in the Republic of Korea and is now being seen in other Asian countries, is therefore of particular public health concern. H5N1 variants demonstrated a capacity to directly infect humans in 1997, and have done so again in Viet Nam in January 2004. The spread of infection in birds increases the opportunities for direct infection of humans. If more humans become infected over time, the likelihood also increases that humans, if concurrently infected with human and avian influenza strains, could serve as the “mixing vessel” for the emergence of a novel subtype with sufficient human genes to be easily transmitted from person to person. Such an event would mark the start of an influenza pandemic.

So the WHO http://www.who.int/csr/disease/avian_influenza/en/ is just a bunch of Bush support trying to use fear to control the masses?

[JR]

Originally Posted by OldJeff

There are 116 cases IN THE WORLD, half of which were fatal (and I would bet a lot that the fatalities are elderly)

The little word IF is used by Bush himself

IF the virus mutates, IF it becomes easy to pass on to humans.

Giving him the use of the military as police AT THIS TIME is unnecessary.

IF there is an outbreak of something major, then we are talking about a totally different scenario.

Right now we got some dead birds in Asia. And there have been a hell of a lot more deaths from AIDS, maybe we should round up all the AIDS paitents somewhere, what do you think ?

... ok.... one more time. bush can't give himself more authority. he simply asked congress to consider issues like this and i think we can all agree after katrina that local, state and federal governments don't work well together even when people are dying and there is advanced warning.

so... this issue of these viruses was big problem before looooong before this article was published. its been a big issue for a while now. its been an issue before the WHO for years. its not a small obscure thing made up at the last minute to justify a military take over of Anywhere, USA.

you use AIDS as an example... AIDS is not a disease that can spread easily. i am not an epidemiologist, but i am pretty sure that AID's is not contagious. AID's is not a disease that you and your family will one day wake up with and be dying before you even know you are sick. You won't wake up one day to see a city of 700,000 dying of AIDs with those people needing to be quarantined. AID's is a disease that spreads when two junkies share a needle or when two turd burglers sodomize each other with some other rare exceptions. If you don't want AIDs - wear a condom and don't share needles.

my point is always the same... everyone is basically saying "i dont like bush" - no one has offered a solution to the very real threat of containing a virus like this. we could not even get people food and water in NO when they were dying and suddenly it makes perfect sense to let those same fucked up people on city and state and federal levels all work together to contain a pandemic outbreak of a deadly disease? i am not saying "bush is great" - i am simply saying that it sounds quite reasonable to have federal control over states in situations like this.

[OldJeff]

Originally Posted by JR

... ok.... one more time. bush can't give himself more authority. he simply asked congress to consider issues like this and i think we can all agree after katrina that local, state and federal governments don't work well together even when people are dying and there is advanced warning.

so... this issue of these viruses was big problem before looooong before this article was published. its been a big issue for a while now. its been an issue before the WHO for years. its not a small obscure thing made up at the last minute to justify a military take over of Anywhere, USA.

you use AIDS as an example... AIDS is not a disease that can spread easily. i am not an epidemiologist, but i am pretty sure that AID's is not contagious. AID's is not a disease that you and your family will one day wake up with and be dying before you even know you are sick. You won't wake up one day to see a city of 700,000 dying of AIDs with those people needing to be quarantined. AID's is a disease that spreads when two junkies share a needle or when two turd burglers sodomize each other with some other rare exceptions. If you don't want AIDs - wear a condom and don't share needles.

my point is always the same... everyone is basically saying "i dont like bush" - no one has offered a solution to the very real threat of containing a virus like this. we could not even get people food and water in NO when they were dying and suddenly it makes perfect sense to let those same fucked up people on city and state and federal levels all work together to contain a pandemic outbreak of a deadly disease? i am not saying "bush is great" - i am simply saying that it sounds quite reasonable to have federal control over states in situations like this.

Actually AIDS spreads much easier than the bird flu, AIDS can actually be passed from person to person,(ins't that the definition of contagious) the bird flu can only pass from live infected birds to humans, so I should say, if you don't want bird flu, don't fuck chickens, right ?

As far as a solution, I already offered it, a vaccine already exists, MAKE MORE OF IT.

Your "turd burgler" comment does nothing but point out your homophobia, but that is to be expected, since homophobia is what won the last election for W.

The Federal Government already does have control in these situations.

If congress gives Bush the ability to use the Military as police now, he will do so, 2 people in a nursing home dies from anything flu related and the soldiers would be on the move.

IF there ever is a situation that needs the military to be used, the president can get the authority AT THAT TIME.

I know the legislative branch is usually pretty slow moving because everyone need to pack all the laws with PORK, but believe it or not they can move pretty quick WHEN THERE IS A NEED. There is no need right now.

[Rolo]

Originally Posted by OldJeff

the bird flu can only pass from live infected birds to humans, so I should say, if you don't want bird flu, don't fuck chickens, right ?

Actual that is do not eat/fuck/suck "anything" that has been in contact with bird flu... ex. pigs eat almost anything, and they could be the possible silent mixing vessel.

And that is the problem - viruses are unstable, jump species, they mix and match with eachother, and their behaviour is unpredictable... but one thing is certain, more infected cases = more likely we will see an influenza pandemic.

The bird flu have now reached Russia's Urals, and its headed towards Europe - its not getting smaller - its spreading.

Yes, you will not die of a mutated bird flu virus tomorrow, but also you do not see Bush wanting to declare martial law tomorrow.

What Bush is trying to communicate is that when/if/should the mutated bird flu spread in a city such as NY, then who is going to enforce the quarantines? The Posse Comitatus Act forbids the military from performing civilian law enforcement without congressional approval... should they be waiting for hours (days?) while congress decide want to do? How would you effectively stop the spread in the most crucial time period - the virus will not wait.