Visa owes YOU money if you used them to process from 1993-2003

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by Dravyk

Aha! Caught you in a flaw, HP.

Surfers aren't entitled to monies back because they didn't get short-shrifted in the first place; they paid the correct amount and had the correct amount taken out. It is the sponsors -- and revshare webmasters -- who did not get an accurate tally from VISA/MC.

As for the processors, we will have to see how this is going to be handled. It's quite possible sponsors who used IPSPs will send VISA/MC their gross sales amounts and the court will direct them to pay the merchants back directly. If it does go to the processors, I have a feeling they will pay. Afterall it's pretty much only two companies this industry has to deal with now adays.

I'd have to fish out my contracts to be absolutely certain, but I dont think the "transaction charge" applied by the iPSPs says anything about the MC/Visa charges and instead just says "13.5%", "14.5%", or whatever deal you managed to negotiate based on your volume. It isn't stated as some caclulation of the "MC/Visa charges plus an additional X%".

In which case, if that's what they took out, then your check was calculated properly.

[Dravyk]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

I'd have to fish out my contracts to be absolutely certain, but I dont think the "transaction charge" applied by the iPSPs says anything about the MC/Visa charges and instead just says "13.5%", "14.5%", or whatever deal you managed to negotiate based on your volume. It isn't stated as some caclulation of the "MC/Visa charges plus an additional X%".

In which case, if that's what they took out, then your check was calculated properly.

I see what you are saying. Yes, hmm, it would depend on how it was done. One way would be sponsors and affiliates; the other way it would only apply to processors and those with their own merchant accounts.

Good thinking there. Now I'm wondering which way it is.

[RyanLanane]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

I'd have to fish out my contracts to be absolutely certain, but I dont think the "transaction charge" applied by the iPSPs says anything about the MC/Visa charges and instead just says "13.5%", "14.5%", or whatever deal you managed to negotiate based on your volume. It isn't stated as some caclulation of the "MC/Visa charges plus an additional X%".

In which case, if that's what they took out, then your check was calculated properly.

Unfortunately I agree here;

Not that it wouldn't be nice to get even 1/2 of 1% of say what.. 4 or 5 million dollars processed through Paycom - I could definately handle a kickback like that, especially right now

[RyanLanane]

Damn I just realized after I made that post... and did some quick math... Paycome revenues from me alone, which I realized 5-6 million is actually on the low side - Wow, if they have a 30% profit margin those SOB's are making more than bank

Not to mention the reserve money they are sitting on top of 'collecting interest' which for some reason we don't get, never did get that. Fine keep our money in reserves BUT pay us the damn interest if you are really keeping them for the reasons you state...

[Dravyk]

Originally Posted by RyanLanane

Not to mention the reserve money they are sitting on top of 'collecting interest' which for some reason we don't get, never did get that. Fine keep our money in reserves BUT pay us the damn interest if you are really keeping them for the reasons you state...

That's the cost of doing business, Ryan.

I remember when younger webmasters getting $35 flat from sponsors would compain about the email boxes and exit consoles on paysites. Affiliate owners had to explain to them that was how they were able to pay them $35 flat, and if they wanted it other wise, no problem, they would then go down to $25 flat. Soon after the model for no exits for TGP traffic came into being.

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by Dravyk

That's the cost of doing business, Ryan.

I remember when younger webmasters getting $35 flat from sponsors would compain about the email boxes and exit consoles on paysites. Affiliate owners had to explain to them that was how they were able to pay them $35 flat, and if they wanted it other wise, no problem, they would then go down to $25 flat. Soon after the model for no exits for TGP traffic came into being.

I dont know if they're still doing it this way or not, but most of the old contracts were written with 5% as a holdback that was to be returned 6 months later. This was their insurance against a site just suddenly shutting the doors and leaving them holding the bag on a bunch of chargebacks or whatever.

Some of the processors got creative with this a few years back taking large chunks of money owed as past holdbacks and turning it into a reserve and ceasing to holdback the 5%.

That's all well and good as long as your volume is consistent or perhaps increasing. But if you're someone like Ryan who during that time went from doing 7 figures down to being all but out of the paysite business, then they are probably sitting on a reserve that is total overkill for current volume levels.

I'd be curious to know if anyone has ever received any of their reserve back when they've ceased processing completely or even received a part of their reserve back to bring it more in line with current volumes.

[RyanLanane]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

I dont know if they're still doing it this way or not, but most of the old contracts were written with 5% as a holdback that was to be returned 6 months later. This was their insurance against a site just suddenly shutting the doors and leaving them holding the bag on a bunch of chargebacks or whatever.

Some of the processors got creative with this a few years back taking large chunks of money owed as past holdbacks and turning it into a reserve and ceasing to holdback the 5%.

That's all well and good as long as your volume is consistent or perhaps increasing. But if you're someone like Ryan who during that time went from doing 7 figures down to being all but out of the paysite business, then they are probably sitting on a reserve that is total overkill for current volume levels.

I'd be curious to know if anyone has ever received any of their reserve back when they've ceased processing completely or even received a part of their reserve back to bring it more in line with current volumes.

Epoch has been kind in releasing reserves to me over the years - I say this even after they just denied a reserve release this last week to me as I am down to them holding about 30X my weekly processing volume. I would of liked that to be at 3 months worth, which is pretty much what it has been at over the last few years as my volume decreased.

I was told others in my situation aren't as lucky and reserves are being released to them persuant to the contractual terms only, which is actually 18 months after the last transaction is processed - which is pure overkill. Also the terms of how my final chunk of reserves will be released to me.

I can't complain though, the last release about 2 years ago was $25K ... They basically have released about that much at a time every once in a while for years now... I tried to play pissed when I got the denial from this this week But I knew it was coming before I even asked for it ...

[RyanLanane]

Dravyk, to a degree I agree with you...

If this is the cost of doing business we more than paid for the VISA fines they have been hit with, all their corporate flights, and so much more through interest alone. Do you have any idea how much the larger companies have sitting with them in reserves only?

If I had to guess, compared to my processing levels at the time... The big companies have at least $1 million in reserves each with epoch... That's alot of interest being collected

[Dravyk]

Originally Posted by RyanLanane

The big companies have at least $1 million in reserves each with epoch... That's alot of interest being collected

This is among the reasons we have always seen the larger companies eventually getting their own merchant accounts.

As for reserves in general, I know my little company with Content God, that CCBill always sends our checks every seventh months on time as they should.