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Old 09-21-2004   #1
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From the Toronto Sun:

"UN nuclear inspectors just caught close U.S. ally South Korea
enriching small amounts of plutonium and uranium to weapons grade.

This revelation comes when the Bush administration's neocon hawks are

clamouring for war against Iran over its unproven nuclear weapons
program. These are the same hawks who raised a hue and cry over
Iraq's non-existent weapons of mass destruction.

South Korea's six-year-old program was far ahead of Iran's;
various
deceptions were used to conceal it from UN inspectors. North Korea,
to no surprise, has been crowing over this embarrassing revelation,
claiming its nuclear program has been justified.

This is the second time South Korea has been found secretly working
on nuclear weapons. In the early 1970s, under the rule of strongman
Park Chung Hee, the CIA discovered a covert South Korean weapons
program. Washington forced Gen. Park to shut it down."
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Old 09-21-2004   #2
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Grimm, not important. it isn't WHAT you are doing, it is who you are.

Iranians are "muslim fuckwads gotta be terrorist types" as far as the general public needs to know. It's an easy slam dunk blame it on the terrorists.

Amazing that nobody is catching on to this yet.

Alex
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Old 09-21-2004   #3
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South Koreans are arming themselves to face North Korea since we dropped the ball on that.

Democracies do not sell WMD to terrorists. ( Though some will sell parts and technology to states who support terrorists.)
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Old 09-21-2004   #4
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Good for them. I'd rather they had some nukes to cover their ass. That crazy fuck Kim Jong-Il is too unstable to ignore.
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Old 09-21-2004   #5
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Yeah, Mike, and good girls don't swallow...

yeah right!

Alex
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Old 09-21-2004   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by darksoft@Sep 21 2004, 08:20 PM
Good for them. I'd rather they had some nukes to cover their ass. That crazy fuck Kim Jong-Il is too unstable to ignore.
Oh, that's a positively fucking brilliant idea. Why don't we give a couple dozen to Taiwan while we are at it?
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Old 09-22-2004   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike AI@Sep 21 2004, 08:02 PM
South Koreans are arming themselves to face North Korea since we dropped the ball on that.

Democracies do not sell WMD to terrorists. ( Though some will sell parts and technology to states who support terrorists.)
Uh Mike....

The US sold the WMD's to Sadam, you know the ones we went to war over and have still not found.

We aid those who are in our best interest at the time, and let someone else worry about it in the future. Kind of like we run our national budget.

I think what amazes me the most about political discussions is there are actually people that think anyone running for president will be good for the country.

Sorry to burst the bubble but all sides of the race for president are bought and paid for, and the only thing they will actually do is what is most likely to keep their particular brand of political bullshit in office.

I would so love to actually have somone to vote FOR in an election
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Old 09-22-2004   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by PornoDoggy+Sep 21 2004, 08:27 PM-->
QUOTE (PornoDoggy @ Sep 21 2004, 08:27 PM)
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Old 09-22-2004   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by darksoft+Sep 22 2004, 12:37 PM-->
QUOTE (darksoft @ Sep 22 2004, 12:37 PM)
Quote:
Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Sep 21 2004, 08:27 PM
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Old 09-22-2004   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by PornoDoggy+Sep 22 2004, 11:26 AM-->
QUOTE (PornoDoggy @ Sep 22 2004, 11:26 AM)
Quote:
Originally posted by darksoft@Sep 22 2004, 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Sep 21 2004, 08:27 PM
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Old 09-23-2004   #11
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Hold on, partner ... you try to bring Canada into this discussion and tell me I'm being silly?

I don't think the confrontation with the Danes over icebergs is likely to escalate into the sort of conflict that a confrontation between the two Koreas would. An unstable government in Seoul in possession of nuclear weapons is not a happy prospect ... and an arms race in Asia is a hell of a lot more likely than one in the arctic.

Let's assume that everything goes the way almost everyone would like, and the two Koreas unite. A UNIFIED nuclear Korea would make a lot of people nervous regardless of which form of government succeeds the two existing ones. You think the Chinese, the Japanese, or even the Australians want that?
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Old 09-23-2004   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by PornoDoggy+Sep 22 2004, 10:26 AM-->
QUOTE (PornoDoggy @ Sep 22 2004, 10:26 AM)
Quote:
Originally posted by darksoft@Sep 22 2004, 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Sep 21 2004, 08:27 PM
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Old 09-23-2004   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Sep 23 2004, 02:19 PM
Let's assume that everything goes the way almost everyone would like, and the two Koreas unite. A UNIFIED nuclear Korea would make a lot of people nervous regardless of which form of government succeeds the two existing ones. You think the Chinese, the Japanese, or even the Australians want that?
The original point comparing Taiwan was perfect.. either of them
Nuking up could cause a long domino effect right through Asia.

South Korean nukes could also be viewed by the North and China as an agressive US action. That might see America end up with another long term dependant state relationship like it enjoys with Israel in the Middle East.


And Yes, Australians are very aware the immenent danger.. nukes in the South Pacific would irrevocably change Australia as we know it, and probably end up in the US wanting to Arm us as another Israel like outpost I would say. :\
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Old 09-23-2004   #14
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we are all going to die.

does it really matter if it's sooner or later?
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Old 09-23-2004   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Sep 22 2004, 09:19 PM
Hold on, partner ... you try to bring Canada into this discussion and tell me I'm being silly?

I don't think the confrontation with the Danes over icebergs is likely to escalate into the sort of conflict that a confrontation between the two Koreas would. An unstable government in Seoul in possession of nuclear weapons is not a happy prospect ... and an arms race in Asia is a hell of a lot more likely than one in the arctic.

Let's assume that everything goes the way almost everyone would like, and the two Koreas unite. A UNIFIED nuclear Korea would make a lot of people nervous regardless of which form of government succeeds the two existing ones. You think the Chinese, the Japanese, or even the Australians want that?
I'm not saying it wouldn't make some countries nervous but seeing as South Korea has been our ally for well over 50 years now, and honestly I haven't seen much in the way of them becoming unstable as much as other allies, I wouldn't have much of a problem with them arming themselves much as The North has done.

We can't stay over there forever. Besides, as far as China being nervous, one of their neighbors already HAS nukes.
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Old 09-23-2004   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by aeon+Sep 22 2004, 09:38 PM-->
QUOTE (aeon @ Sep 22 2004, 09:38 PM)
Quote:
Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Sep 22 2004, 10:26 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by darksoft@Sep 22 2004, 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Sep 21 2004, 08:27 PM
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Old 09-23-2004   #17
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Originally posted by darksoft+Sep 23 2004, 11:45 AM-->
QUOTE (darksoft @ Sep 23 2004, 11:45 AM)
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Old 09-23-2004   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by darksoft+Sep 23 2004, 08:46 AM-->
QUOTE (darksoft @ Sep 23 2004, 08:46 AM)
Quote:
Originally posted by aeon@Sep 22 2004, 09:38 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Sep 22 2004, 10:26 AM
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Originally posted by darksoft@Sep 22 2004, 12:37 PM
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Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Sep 21 2004, 08:27 PM
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Old 09-23-2004   #19
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Iraq was an ally of the United States for twenty-plus years; Iran was an ally of the United States for nearly 30.

Within striking distance of China? The Russia, the U.S., India, Pakistan, and who fucking knows how many former Soviet Republics who came into possession of a couple.
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Old 09-23-2004   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by aeon+Sep 23 2004, 10:46 AM-->
QUOTE (aeon @ Sep 23 2004, 10:46 AM)
Quote:
Originally posted by darksoft@Sep 23 2004, 08:46 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by aeon@Sep 22 2004, 09:38 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Sep 22 2004, 10:26 AM
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« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Originally posted by darksoft@Sep 22 2004, 12:37 PM
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Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Sep 21 2004, 08:27 PM
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Old 09-23-2004   #21
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Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Sep 23 2004, 10:50 AM
Iraq was an ally of the United States for twenty-plus years; Iran was an ally of the United States for nearly 30.

Within striking distance of China? The Russia, the U.S., India, Pakistan, and who fucking knows how many former Soviet Republics who came into possession of a couple.
And comparing Iran and Iraq to South Korea is silly. When was the last time South Korea pulled anything even remotely like the shit Iran and Iraq have pulled over the past 20 or so years?
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Old 09-23-2004   #22
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Using Iraq may in fact be almost as silly as comparing South Korea to Canada. The same cannot be said about Iran under the Shah until the last ten or so years of his career as a puppet. The fact of the matter is, you cannot predict what will happen in such a violatle, "dynamic" environment.

I personally think you are taking a very short-sighted view. South Korean nukes would complicate an already delicate balance of power. The more smaller nuclear club members there are, the more likely those nukes would fall into the wrong hands.

My two biggest concerns are that possession of nuclear weapons could encourage rash actions on the part of the South Koreans, or (and this is my biggest concern) cause Japan to fully rearm to the extent of its capabilities.
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Old 09-23-2004   #23
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Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Sep 23 2004, 12:15 PM
Using Iraq may in fact be almost as silly as comparing South Korea to Canada. The same cannot be said about Iran under the Shah until the last ten or so years of his career as a puppet. The fact of the matter is, you cannot predict what will happen in such a violatle, "dynamic" environment.

I personally think you are taking a very short-sighted view. South Korean nukes would complicate an already delicate balance of power. The more smaller nuclear club members there are, the more likely those nukes would fall into the wrong hands.

My two biggest concerns are that possession of nuclear weapons could encourage rash actions on the part of the South Koreans, or (and this is my biggest concern) cause Japan to fully rearm to the extent of its capabilities.
I'm not saying it's an ideal situation but given that the North already has them, and I'm pretty damn sure they do, the South having them makes it no less volatile than it already is, IMHO. If Japan was so worried about nukes on the Korean peninsula, why aren't they doing anything about the North?

I don't see the South as flying off the handle once they have nukes. They just don't operate that way.
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Old 09-23-2004   #24
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the South having them makes it no less volatile than it already is
I hardly think your opinion would be shared by either the most violitale country in the region (NK), or by the Chinese.

Quote:
They just don't operate that way.
Neither did the Shah. I repeat again ... you are (IMHO) taking a short-sighted view of the situation.
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Old 09-23-2004   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Sep 23 2004, 01:00 PM
Quote:
the South having them makes it no less volatile than it already is
I hardly think your opinion would be shared by either the most violitale country in the region (NK), or by the Chinese.

Quote:
They just don't operate that way.
Neither did the Shah. I repeat again ... you are (IMHO) taking a short-sighted view of the situation.
Of course NK and China would thinkk different. If they didn't I would be shocked.

As far as short-sighted, perhaps. I can only base my opinion on their track record to date and what I have personally observed during the 4 years I lived/was stationed there. And I lived where the rest of them did. I only spent a couple months in the barracks.
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