Should suspected al-Qaeda members be tortured?

[JR]

Originally posted by gigi@Mar 7 2003, 10:25 AM

In May 2001, the United States of America was voted off the UN Human Rights Commission.

Do you give up the personal freedom that has made America what it is to feel secure?

DISCLAIMER: the following is straight from the "CNN brainwashed mind" of JR... so they cant really be said to be my own opinions

The difference between me and many people is that i dont feel i am giving anything up. some people fear. i have yet to see that the system of government that we have has completely broken down.


March 07, 2003

"The 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled Thursday that the Child Online Protection Act restricted free speech by barring web page operators from posting information inappropriate for minors unless they limited the site to adults. The ruling upheld an injunction blocking the government from enforcing the law"

---- i notice that the above story is not as interesting to all the conspiracy theorists as a story about a smart ass in a mall who gets arrested because he refused to leave - then claims it was simply because his shirt said "give peace a chance"



but i am human and there are some things make me feel less secure.

I feel less secure watching the US Government tell the world that their opinions and their voices are irrelevent, that the UN is irrelevent and that the consensus of the international community is irrelevent.

I feel less secure knowing that the US Government continues to make repeated threats to go outside of the rule of the very institution created to avoid war - to start a war. I feel less secure that it is threatening to go outside the rule of that democratic institution to start a war in the name of democracy. I feel less secure that it is doing so when the case cannot be made that there is a grave and immenent threat to the USA. I understand the hypothetical possibilities about the favored term "weapons of mass destruction".

I have yet to wake up in fear of Iraq. I dont know anyone that does.

I do however feel less secure, when North Korea is making remarks daily to the effect that we will all die in a great sea of fire... as they defy international law and continue enriching plutonium and uranium and test firing missiles.

I feel less secure when the Government of the United States downplays the seriousness of the North Korea situation by saying its not "a crisis" - yet they feel its enough of a crisis to move 12 (i think) stealth bombers capable of carrying a nuclear payload to Guam as "a deterrent" as they did today. .... all while North Korea threatens more missile tests.

I spent the other day, reading the UN Charter to try to understand the positions of those countries who oppose war. i forgot what the UN was and why it was formed. it was formed to stop war. forever.

I dont agree that the US is a beacon of truth and hope for oppressed peoples of the world and for human rights. I think that America, like all countries acts out of its own interests.. nothing more. nothing less... just as all other countries do.

for example:

Isreal/Palestine - who is right or wrong? who cares. regardless of blame, no one can deny the living conditions of Palestinians. particularly those who are STILL in refugee camps after how long? Arafat may be a terrorist, he may support Hamas, Islamic Jihad and others. He may be directly responsible for terrorist attacks. What about the rest of the people? No one cares... because no one has a real interest in caring there. no one has a national interest in peace in Palestinian areas. its a nice topic for making a political statement... but who does anything about it? who is actively doing something about it?

We all watched 2,000,000 people get butchered in Rowanda because no one had a strategic interest in the area.

No one cares that the child mortality rate for Iraqi children under 5 is 13% and climbing which has been known for 11 years. even today... there is no issue being raised in the UN Security Council meetings about stacks of dead babies everyday. why not? because the horrible truth is that it is irrelevent on the world stage.

Few people were bothered to watch Somali warlords gunning down unarmed people to take control of UN food aid. In fact, 18 soldiers got killed and public opinion was pretty unanimous on the need to get out of there... so much for the famine and people starving to death... oh well... maybe next time.

Few care about 12 year old kids with AK-47's killing each other all over Africa.

No one cares a whole lot about China. Remember the last and greatest threat that they would not be allowed to join the WTO until they improved thier human rights record? they made no real concessions as they were allowed in. now they have most favored nation trading status with the US. i am assuming that it does not include agreements some popular industries like executing prisoners to sell their organs though.

Few bat an eye at Saudi Arabia and similar countries whos track record for human rights is well known. we dont rock the boat for obvious reasons. We dont even want to rock the boat when a hand full of people come from Saudi Arabia to the USA and kill 3000 people.

Afghanistan was not a problem when it was just people hanging from lamp posts in the street... women getting raped, beaten, stoned and executed. it was not really a problem when Osama was running terrorist camps there and was being sheltered by the Taliban. It all only became important and a "just cause" when they attacked us.

Do you know what the capital city of Grozny looks like in Chechya? probably not. Because its not really in our interest to know. Its leveled. almost every building. Its one massive pile of broken bricks and concrete. Do you know how many refugees there are from Grozny living in tents for the last couple years in extremely brutal conditions? of course not. its not our problem.

Thai police are now on a nation wide rampage, shooting people in the streets who are suspected drug dealers. they have arrested something like 40,000 people in the last few weeks. what is the US position on that? we dont have one because we dont need to have one.

The death penalty in the US is still legal. Its not accepted in most of the free world... yet we still have the death penalty. State sanctioned murder. Why do we support the death penalty if we are "the very embodiment of human rights"? Illinois Governor George Ryan, commuted the sentence of all 160 death row inmates in the State of Illinois before leaving office. He made what i felt to be a very strong case against the death penalty (aside from the case of the 4 that were wrongly convicted and sentenced to die) that changed my views entirely on it.

Why doesn't the world stop and ask Iceland what they think about anything? because its not in anyones interest to do so... and there is nothing to be gained from doing so.

America is no different than any other country. it acts out of its own interest as all countries do. Thats every countries responsibility to itself and every leaders responsibility to its citizens. truth, freedom, justice and the American way only become relevent when its in our interest.