It's time to leave Iraq ...

[PornoDoggy]

My thought is it's best in the hands of the US and if I understand correctly you'd prefer a multinational force.

My preference for an international force are based on practicalities and realism, before I come close to anything idealogical. I do not believe that America has the manpower to do the job alone if we are to do it properly. We can do a sham job - that's what Bush seems intent on doing, with the turnover of power in June. That will NOT, however, do anything to ensure the long term stability of the region, nor will finding ourselves a puppet leader- a Shah of Iraq, perhaps?

The other side of the coin with regards to Pakistan, Afghanistan and the other bumfuckistans
If they see a real shock and awe campaign and know what the US is capable of and will do don't you think that will help um ... keep them in line
Basically we better be buddies and play ball or we could be next

Gee ... more tonnage dropped on "that pissant country" Vietnam during Nixon's part of that war than was dropped on either Japan or Germany during WWII, and it really scared them into submission, didn't it? The Russians awed the Afghanis, the French awed the Algerians, the Belgins awed the Congolese and others, the Portugese awed the Angolans ... terror will begat nothing more and nothing less than terror in return. Show me an example where it worked, and I'll consider it.

Does fear go a long way with extremest or are they so far gone they don't give a flying fig about their own lives?

Your extremist is their patriot. Fear of arguably the greatest power in the world did not seem to deter a ragtag bunch of colonists in 1776 at Lexington and Concord, did it? B52s didn't deter the gooks from humping field pieces 1000 miles down jungle trails, did it? Fear of one of the two greatest powers in the world didn't stop the Mujahadeen from taking on the Russians (who were hardly as encumbered as a democracy might be in the tactics they employed), did it? Fear of absolutely overwhelming odds did not deter the Jews in the Warsaw ghetto from rising up, did it? I say again - show me an example where your theory has worked, and I'll listen.

You are standing there pointing at a bright yellow Yugo painted with Sunkist labels all over it, attempting to convince me that maybe this one really IS a Cadillac - and I ain't buying it.

Not certain we need the Iraqis - if we occupy the country and dictate the terms it's our game. Where is the difference between treating post-Saddam Iraq like post-Hitler Germany and American occupation?

We didn't finish the war with the Germans and immediately begin a gurilla war, did we? The only place we encountered ongoing reisistance after the surrender in either theater of war was in the 454 square miles of Okinawa, and we probably had damn close to the same number of troops there that we now have in the 171,599 square miles of Iraq - and it took us 3 (?) years to finally crush the resistance.

I point out to you again - we are not occupying Iraq like we occupied Germany. We have not defeated the Iraqis in the way we defeated the Germans.

In one of the few things Mike's said all day that I agree with, he pointed out that "they don't think like us." The Iraqis are not Germans - they are not Westerners. They are a disparte group of tribes and clans who want noting more than to (with apologies to Ray Stevens) hop on their camel named Clyde and go kill some of the other guys in the name of Allah. Sunni and Shiite have scores to settle with each other, unless of course there are infidels to kill; both want to exterminate the Kurds who really want nothing more than to be left alone and blow up Turks, Shiite, Sunni, Syrians, Iranians - anyone will do.

If you are following Mike AI off into the past - the glorious days of imperialism - you aren't just attempting to reinvent the wheel. You are trying to revitalize that early version of the wheel that had four eqally flat edges. It will not work, and an attempt to make it work will, far from ensuring your son's future lifestyle, almost guarantee him a harder battle agaist "evildoers" than he is going to encounter anyway.