Victoria Givens: Porn is not Recession Proof

[gonzo]

Victoria Givens writes: I remember hearing many times several years ago that Porn is recession proof. I’ve talked to several owners of companies much larger than mine that would beg to differ right about now. Of course I don’t think any of us would stand a chance of getting a Government Bailout. No, you have to sell bad mortgages, gas-guzzlers, and loan money to folks that don’t have a prayer of paying it back to qualify for bailout.

I was out shopping the other day and I noticed that retail prices for things I went looking for, had not changed. I wanted to upgrade my cell phone and the prices were the same as they were months ago. It really aggravated me that during a time of financial crisis, retailers were laying people off but holding their prices the same as before the “admitted” recession. I say admitted because while they just recently made the official announcement, most of us knew a year ago that we were in a recession.

Anyway, that being said, it made me realize that I was just as much at fault. My membership rates for my web site were the same as they were a year ago. I also realized that just like us, our fans were involved in this recession as well. None of us would have careers if it were not for our fans.

I myself am lowering the membership dues to my site [victoriagivens.com]. At the same time, I’m adding more updates, feeds and other content, as well as gearing up the fan-based contest, Sex and A Movie. I’ve also added an affiliate program so others can make a little money.

Dues were $19.95 for the first 30 days and $14.95 a month after that. For now, and until our country gets out of this mess, I’m lowering the monthly dues to $14.95 for the first month, and $9.95 for every month after that until the membership is cancelled. That’s a lot of porn for .33 cents a day.

Prices will go back to normal when the recession is over. Meanwhile, I truly hope this helps the fans out. Thank you so much for being there, for all of us.
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As an aside if you your not promoting Victoria you should be. If you attended the AEBN party at the Kingpin suite you will remember her as the hottest entertainer there dancing on the bar.

Shes the real deal. She really does her own site and as my friend Bill here would say its a "safe" program.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by gonzo

Shes the real deal. She really does her own site and as my friend Bill here would say its a "safe" program.

Yup, the real deal and hot as hell. In my experience sites like this usually rebill like mad.

[TheEnforcer]

Always a smart thing to do when you adapt to the times. Keep those customers happy and rebilling.

[softball]

There are other and possibly better strategies than lowering your price. It becomes harder to put it back up when the recession "ends". Recessions, in my experience, don't end, they kind fade away and you don't realize its finished until it has been over a couple of years. So, when, exactly, do you put your prices back up?
As a marketing ploy, this VG thing works. As a recession busting strategy, save it for the punters.

[RawAlex]

She is blaming the recession for something that has taken much longer to develop, with torrents, tubes, file trading, and credit card scamming websites (mass cross sales only being the latest in a series). The simple facts of the online porn business is that many of the previously paying customers have either been scared away from paying, or have learned ways to get much of their porn more slowly but for free.

I am thinking that a mid-range porn girl personal site would be one of those things where 99% of the remaining potential buyers aren't going to be willing to pay money to just see her (and her with friends) as they might be on a niche specific but more general website. So she is doing probably what is right for her business, I guess.

The question would be, when you reduce your price of membership by 25%, do you end up with more than a 25% bump in membership count? 100 members @20 is 2k and at $15 per member, you need to get up to 133 members just to have the same income. Maybe they will retain longer and make money that way?

It is an interesting concept at some point, it would be interesting to see what the results are.

[softball]

I think mainstream sites like hers are price sensitive. However, I believe price wars will not necessarily improve income. But I suppose to be the first and make a big noise about it, might gain you an advantage of sorts. That is until all your competition does the same thing and in mainstream the competition is hellatious at the moment.

[MRock]

Nice move for the further endearment of her current members. I do not think it will gain her enough new memberships to make up for the revenue decline. ( as stated above )

I just raised my prices ...

[Toby]

Originally Posted by MRock

I just raised my prices ...

Sometimes that increases the perceived value and you actually make more sales. People may assume that a lower price means lower value.

[softball]

Originally Posted by MRock

Nice move for the further endearment of her current members. I do not think it will gain her enough new memberships to make up for the revenue decline. ( as stated above )

I just raised my prices ...

Let us know how it goes.

[gonzo]

Its a geniune marketing vehicle.
She is concerned about the recession and hoenstly yall are raising your prices?

It will be interesting to see how both work out.

[tony404]

when I combined my sites and upped the price to $29.95. Sales were the same but rebills are holding longer. I dont think giving away the house is the key.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

She is blaming the recession for something that has taken much longer to develop, with torrents, tubes, file trading, and credit card scamming websites (mass cross sales only being the latest in a series). The simple facts of the online porn business is that many of the previously paying customers have either been scared away from paying, or have learned ways to get much of their porn more slowly but for free.

I am thinking that a mid-range porn girl personal site would be one of those things where 99% of the remaining potential buyers aren't going to be willing to pay money to just see her (and her with friends) as they might be on a niche specific but more general website. So she is doing probably what is right for her business, I guess.

The question would be, when you reduce your price of membership by 25%, do you end up with more than a 25% bump in membership count? 100 members @20 is 2k and at $15 per member, you need to get up to 133 members just to have the same income. Maybe they will retain longer and make money that way?

It is an interesting concept at some point, it would be interesting to see what the results are.

Very true. This downturn in porn sales has been happening for years. Firstly it hit the DVD industry that has been declining for a long time. The money being lost in DVD sales was not all coming over to the Internet, even though they were blaming us.

The downturn in the Internet started a long time before the recession. But as usual we find other reasons to blame for the slow down. The reason for the downturn is simple, less customers are buying. Why less customers are buying is also simple. We no longer meet their needs as well as we should. Be it the way we treat them, what we sell them or the price the fact is they now have the option of Tube sites and if Tube sites are taking customers from us we have only ourselves to blame.

Paysites are for more profitable and generate far more income per surfer than Tubes. So why are we losing customers to them? Because we did not invest in the customer is the simple answer. The answers are simple, the solutions hard.

The problem with lowering the price is less people will send you traffic. They will look for a short term gain rather than a long term one.

I'm close to launching the site with my old content in, 1980 to 1990 videos and stills. Been a long job but it's getting close. I'm also looking at different scenarios of how the girl gets to the sex scene and what she does there to build a site with some very different content. I do feel one of the reasons there is a decline in sales across the industry is porn became bland and anonymous. I hate to see porn faked and sadly I see too much of it faked badly.

[sexandcash]

interesting observation: everyone is saying that it is recession proof

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by sexandcash

interesting observation: everyone is saying that it is recession proof

Porn is recession proof, it's selling it that's tough.

Think about it. Tubes might come down if 9999.9% of their traffic will NEVER buy.

[RawAlex]

I don't think that much of anything that is "choice consumption" is recession proof. However, consider this:

http://adage.com/article?article_id=133100

McDonalds sees sales increase 4.5%, same store sales up 4.7%.

Now, you would think that something like Rotton Ronnie's would be a luxury, after all it is eating out. But sometimes people move their dollars so they are spending less total from their pocket, but more in certain places.

So example, let's say that people have been going out to titty bars, or have been hiring hookers, or perhaps hitting clubs trying to pick up girls. Maybe they are spending a few hundred bucks a week on the process. Perhaps their version of saving money is instead of hiring a hooker every week for $250, they will instead buy live cam time for $100 a week. Now, in theory, your live cam sales go up, making you appear recession proof. Without the data from the hooker (she lost $250 a week), there is no way to show how the recession really happens.

So there is potential here that porn could in fact become more popular as people drop expensive "hunt for pussy" activities and just stay home and whack off to a hot cam girl or the latest XXX parody movie.

We live in interesting times, perhaps the ultimate curse.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

I don't think that much of anything that is "choice consumption" is recession proof. However, consider this:

http://adage.com/article?article_id=133100

McDonalds sees sales increase 4.5%, same store sales up 4.7%.

Now, you would think that something like Rotton Ronnie's would be a luxury, after all it is eating out. But sometimes people move their dollars so they are spending less total from their pocket, but more in certain places.

So example, let's say that people have been going out to titty bars, or have been hiring hookers, or perhaps hitting clubs trying to pick up girls. Maybe they are spending a few hundred bucks a week on the process. Perhaps their version of saving money is instead of hiring a hooker every week for $250, they will instead buy live cam time for $100 a week. Now, in theory, your live cam sales go up, making you appear recession proof. Without the data from the hooker (she lost $250 a week), there is no way to show how the recession really happens.

So there is potential here that porn could in fact become more popular as people drop expensive "hunt for pussy" activities and just stay home and whack off to a hot cam girl or the latest XXX parody movie.

We live in interesting times, perhaps the ultimate curse.

Very true and in previous recessions I've seen this happen. Today it might be different for us because people will not want to load already over loaded credit cards with more debt. But that's guess work. I think the slow down in sales we are seeing is in people moving from buying to getting it for free. Is it all the recession or do we have something to do with it?

[MRock]

The decline in sales has another factor I have not seen anyone mention yet. The damn card companies are reducing the limits on everyones cards. I had it happen to me this week. Pissed me off. I have a card I've been paying 3x the minimum required for the last 6 months. My goal was to clear it off, then use it for Christmas purchases. To make a long story short, perfect pmt history, never late, reduced my purchasing power by 5k. I just might cut the f'ing card up ...

[softball]

Here is my credit card strategy, recession or no recession. Never pay a penny of interest. never buy anything you can't afford. If you want to get an indication of what you can afford, go to the bank and ask for a line of credit and if you need credit live within that. Credit card debt is for mugs. I use credit cards for two things. Paper trail and airline points. I now have one million airline miles. That is useful. Credit card debt is crippling, but thank God our customers use them.
Also, as Alex says, the recession manifests itself in lots of ways. Even though the Starbucks around me are always full, I suspect that most are ordering tall coffees instead of grande....I know I do. That has to hurt.
My customers are doing the same thing. But on the bright side, I still have a profitable business and customers. Many don't. Internext should be interesting.
I will be in the trailer park at Circus Circus....its post modern chic, dontcha know.

[MRock]

I hear ya' Rhet. Very wise indeed, but my point was that our customers are having this happen. Jill gets a lot of feedback through her live cam shows with guys and this credit reduction had been told to her by several of them. We weren't always sure to believe them. Sometimes guys will make up stories to explain their reduction in visits. Now it has happened to me directly, I tend to believe they were not lying.

To bring it back to the original post, Victoria may be reducing her price for customers that no longer have the credit available ... therefore, she may only be reducing her income on the ones that still do have the credit line.

I'm giving my new price point 30 - 60 days. I can always go back and reduce it.

[Paul Markham]

We could also look at more flexibility in pricing, how about a 10 day pass that gives the member 10 days to login of his choosing. He can use the 10 days in 10 or in 100 it's his choice. The numbers of days and price offered can be altered as suits.

The guys who want to log in once a week will not sign up and they are lost, the rebills you lose might be lost on one side and gained on the other. He does not cancel because he knows he has another 10 days of his choosing.

[softball]

Originally Posted by MRock

I hear ya' Rhet. Very wise indeed, but my point was that our customers are having this happen. Jill gets a lot of feedback through her live cam shows with guys and this credit reduction had been told to her by several of them. We weren't always sure to believe them. Sometimes guys will make up stories to explain their reduction in visits. Now it has happened to me directly, I tend to believe they were not lying.

To bring it back to the original post, Victoria may be reducing her price for customers that no longer have the credit available ... therefore, she may only be reducing her income on the ones that still do have the credit line.

I'm giving my new price point 30 - 60 days. I can always go back and reduce it.

Our strategy has been to have sales. For instance join one, get one free for a month. You get the idea. It works very well and price reduction is not an issue when "the recovery" happens. If it ever does.....lol.
This works well if you have a substantial email list of enthusiasts.

[miz_wright]

Originally Posted by MRock

The decline in sales has another factor I have not seen anyone mention yet. The damn card companies are reducing the limits on everyones cards. I had it happen to me this week. Pissed me off. I have a card I've been paying 3x the minimum required for the last 6 months. My goal was to clear it off, then use it for Christmas purchases. To make a long story short, perfect pmt history, never late, reduced my purchasing power by 5k. I just might cut the f'ing card up ...

I've been hearing about lowered limits for a few months, and it's been something I've been keeping my eye on -- but haven't heard much about inside the industry registering concern about. When I've mentioned it as a concern about our purchasers, I've been kinda "poo-poohed" as it being a concern.

[RawAlex]

Reducing credit limits is a pretty normal part of the CC business, especially in times when the value of the assets people have is dropping. I am suspecting that the credit card companies are being very vigilant on every account, especially any account that shows a major shift in balance (up or down) to make sure that the credit limits are in line with what they feel is right.

My personal feeling is that if your entire business model is based on the need to recur, then you are likely to feel the pinch in the near term future. It may even be a bigger issue in the next few weeks, as people attempt to scrape past christmas to give their children the impression that nothing is wrong, but at the same time running their cards right to the wall. I am suspecting that January rebills in the adult world won't be as good as normal.

I am wondering why more programs don't offer closed end fixed price memberships - pay one price for 90 days access, no recur, and the rate is significantly lower than the recurring price would be - so example, if you are charging 24.95 per month, why not do a one time 49.95 instead for 90 days? Even if you are paying out $35 per signup, you are already in the green day 1, and whatever other upsells, exits, or internal ups you might offer would be all to the good - and then come up with a system to recontact these users at the end of 90 days and re solicit their business for another 90 days or offer them other choices?

$50 in the bank today beats the heck out of maybe $75 if you are lucky 3 months from now.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

I am wondering why more programs don't offer closed end fixed price memberships - pay one price for 90 days access, no recur, and the rate is significantly lower than the recurring price would be - so example, if you are charging 24.95 per month, why not do a one time 49.95 instead for 90 days?...

$50 in the bank today beats the heck out of maybe $75 if you are lucky 3 months from now.

Most of the CCBill sponsors that I promote are doing exactly that. The results are interesting, and defy analysis. Some seem to get a fair number of the higher priced non-recurring, where others still get mostly 1 month recurring. I've not been able to find any consistent pattern.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Toby

Most of the CCBill sponsors that I promote are doing exactly that. The results are interesting, and defy analysis. Some seem to get a fair number of the higher priced non-recurring, where others still get mostly 1 month recurring. I've not been able to find any consistent pattern.

Do you think it has something to do with the site?

Maybe sites that are obviously worth 90 days are getting more of the 90 day joins. I know we get a lot of them and I was thinking of making it 180 days for the same price to see if we could not get a few more.

Over all today I would say we see more and more non recurring joins.

[MRock]

Here's an article with more details about my point I posted above:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...wzU&refer=home

The card companies are making the economy worse imo.

[RawAlex]

The adjustments that the credit card companies are making are pretty much criminal in nature. I can understand re-evaluating people's credit, I can understand raising rates over time (in keeping with the default rate of overall credit, example). Heck, I can even understand adding fees for processing or other.

What isn't acceptable is to be doing all of the above at the same time in dramatic and short term fashion.

Moving someone's CC rate up from 8% to 15 to 16% overnight without warning is terrible. Adding service fees just to use the card or to receive a bill is terrible. Moving the minimum payment levels up by more than double is a recipe for disaster. In many ways, it appears that the credit card companies are trying very hard to make customers default.

I am suspecting that the credit card companies have been watching balanced owed numbers and started to realize that more people are getting desperate and are willing to run their credit cards up trying to keep from going broke. The CC companies know that if that happens, they will have to join a list of creditors and hope to get paid over a very long period of time. For what it is worth, it just isn't a very good time to be in the credit business - any credit business.

Overall, they appear to be going too far too quickly and way to agressively, and I think in the end they will find themselves regulated and no longer able to do these things, which will in turn lead to tighter credit requirements and fewer cards in circulation.

[miz_wright]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

The adjustments that the credit card companies are making are pretty much criminal in nature. I can understand re-evaluating people's credit, I can understand raising rates over time (in keeping with the default rate of overall credit, example). Heck, I can even understand adding fees for processing or other.

{snip}

Moving someone's CC rate up from 8% to 15 to 16% overnight without warning is terrible. Adding service fees just to use the card or to receive a bill is terrible. Moving the minimum payment levels up by more than double is a recipe for disaster. In many ways, it appears that the credit card companies are trying very hard to make customers default.

Doing all of the above AND lowering someone's limit - even those who are paying in a timely manner on a monthly basis, at or significantly above minimums - is a recipe for disaster. We were talking about it this morning, and I strongly feel that this is the banks' way of making SOMETHING. They're not making any interest on B2B loans (0% interest, Fed? Really?), so stab the consumers.

*ponders*
Hmmm. Why does that sound SO FAMILIAR?

[Paul Markham]

We are getting more and more declines than ever. We expect it to continue.

As for what the credit card companies are doing, I think they are covering their asses and making sure they don't go under or have to ask again for a nail out. How customers will react after the worse of this crisis is over will be interesting. Will people be as irresponsible with spending again, will they load their cards like they did and how many will move to debit cards and only spend what they have?

[softball]

Will people be as irresponsible with spending again, will they load their cards like they did

I certainly hope so.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

I certainly hope so.

I doubt it. I was in the position of owing Visa a lot back in the late 90s. Got out of it and never went back to their credit system. This recession will change a lot of things we took for granted.

My hope is with the freeloaders and the people who can't pay the Tube buckle, but I doubt it will happen without a push from us.