I cannot stand some people...

[Sin]

...I swear.

I had made a commitment to one of my friends, that I would work one of his stores for him along his delivery route (he delivers bread to a bunch of the stores around here) ...the store happened to be wal-mart. I forgot it was holiday season.

The part that I think pissed me off the most, was when this one woman was walking around with an infant (easily less than 6 months old) who was doing the "I am hungry" cry (I lived with a baby for the first 6 months & still babysit occasionally) ....and the woman was just ignoring it. She wasn't doing a goddamn thing to try to soothe her baby. For fucks sake lady, drop the materialistic seasonal greed for a few minutes, and go feed your fucking kid! Or if you're too worried they'll go "out of stock" in the relatively short time that would take, do SOMETHING to let your baby know you're aware of its demands!!

I hate some people.
Fuck Christmas.

[Osiris]

Hahaha! Sin, have a kid or two and see how you'll act EVERY time the kid wants something to eat. If I fed my youngest everytime she literally cried she was hungry I'd have a baby elephant!

[Sin]

After listening to the screaming babies in the mall, and changing Ethan's dirty diaper after he's been constipated for 2 days, I will NEVER have children LOL (that's my take on it today at least)

[Biggy]

Originally Posted by Sin

...I swear.

I had made a commitment to one of my friends, that I would work one of his stores for him along his delivery route (he delivers bread to a bunch of the stores around here) ...the store happened to be wal-mart. I forgot it was holiday season.

The part that I think pissed me off the most, was when this one woman was walking around with an infant (easily less than 6 months old) who was doing the "I am hungry" cry (I lived with a baby for the first 6 months & still babysit occasionally) ....and the woman was just ignoring it. She wasn't doing a goddamn thing to try to soothe her baby. For fucks sake lady, drop the materialistic seasonal greed for a few minutes, and go feed your fucking kid! Or if you're too worried they'll go "out of stock" in the relatively short time that would take, do SOMETHING to let your baby know you're aware of its demands!!

I hate some people.
Fuck Christmas.

Tell us how you really feel.

[Sin]

Actually I feel a lot better after having some long chats with some people who are very dear to me

[Timon]

oh i thought this thread was about me

[Trev]

You'd hate me then... My boy usually waits until the most inopportune moment to throw down a monumental strop... there was this one time while he was going for gold, some woman and her hubby looked on while shaking their heads... I found the words: "what fuck you shaking your heads at you old cunts" just slipping out...

[domtheboy]

Originally Posted by Sin

I will NEVER have children

ah, a woman after my own heart

[Osiris]

Originally Posted by Trev

You'd hate me then... My boy usually waits until the most inopportune moment to throw down a monumental strop... there was this one time while he was going for gold, some woman and her hubby looked on while shaking their heads... I found the words: "what fuck you shaking your heads at you old cunts" just slipping out...

I do the same thing, except I sometimes actually ask them if they have a problem with how I raise MY kids...

I also tell them to mind their own damn business..


The problem with people today is they are too goddamn nosey and want to get in on everybody else's shit instead of worrying about their own..

[Trev]

Originally Posted by Osiris

I do the same thing, except I sometimes actually ask them if they have a problem with how I raise MY kids...

I also tell them to mind their own damn business..


The problem with people today is they are too goddamn nosey and want to get in on everybody else's shit instead of worrying about their own..

Preach it brother


The other ones that really get my goat are the ones with kids over 5yrs old... when the stare at me I can't help but think it must be great for them to have fucking perfect kids... it boils my piss when parents forget how kids can be

[Sin]

Well when Ethan was a baby, and he started having a fit, the parents at least made SOME effort to calm him down, and more often than not it worked. Infants is what I'm talking about here, not kids.

[TheEnforcer]

This thread is certainly interesting reading for a non parent!!

[Trev]

Originally Posted by Sin

Well when Ethan was a baby, and he started having a fit, the parents at least made SOME effort to calm him down, and more often than not it worked. Infants is what I'm talking about here, not kids.

Dan's only 21 months old... he's got a temper like his mother and it shows when he goes off on one...

[sarettah]

I can stand some people would be a lot more applicable to me

[Sin]

I don't count that as an infant, original post would show that I am talking about infants LESS than 6 months old.

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by Sin

I don't count that as an infant, original post would show that I am talking about infants LESS than 6 months old.

Well shit, infants that young shouldn't be allowed out in public period. They should be kept in their cage in a sound proof room with many layers of thick clothing on to keep themselves from hurting themselves. That way the parents can go about their errands, go shopping, go to parties, whatever without having to worry about it.


Which is easier: unloading a truckfull of babies or unloading a truckfull of lightbulbs ?























Babies, because you can use a pitchfork on them

[Sin]

Not saying they shouldn't be allowed out in public, but when they're that young, and upset, its not because they "see something they want"

And when they get older, around the 2 yr mark... I'll use myself as an example here when I was feeling prone to throwing a fit instead of my parents "fussing" or merely ignoring me, we all left the store. I quickly learned not to throw fits, and quickly learned what type of behavior is or isn't acceptable in public.

[MorganGrayson]

Originally Posted by Trev

You'd hate me then... My boy usually waits until the most inopportune moment to throw down a monumental strop... there was this one time while he was going for gold, some woman and her hubby looked on while shaking their heads... I found the words: "what fuck you shaking your heads at you old cunts" just slipping out...

I've been there, Trev. I hate the parents who do the "MY child would never behave like that!" looks. I always want to say "oh, I know your child would never do that. But see, I *don't* beat my kids, so they're not afraid of me."

I had a child who took a shot at the "public tantrum to embarrass Mommy and get what I want" bit. All she got was raised eyebrow and a calm "now, do you *really* think that's going to work?" She felt a little stupid on the floor and got up.

People who have kids - and are honest with their memories - understand.
People who don't have kids, or who choose to pretend *their* children are perfect...won't.

Never go into a crowded WalMart around Christmas. They're thinking of using that as an alternative to overcrowded prisons. Commit a crime, and do the time...at WalMart during the Christmas rush.

[CDSmith]

Originally Posted by Sin

I'll use myself as an example here when I was feeling prone to throwing a fit instead of my parents "fussing" or merely ignoring me, we all left the store. I quickly learned not to throw fits, and quickly learned what type of behavior is or isn't acceptable in public.

Bingo on that point. I fully agree with this.

What I can't stand about people (on this issue) is that they bring their squawling babies and loud brats out with them, to restaurants, to malls, to MOVIES, even to business meetings. Arrange to leave your kids at home for christ sakes, and if they do act up get them out of there. Let them know that when they act up, the party's over.

The other thing I can't stand though are parents who jump whenever their kid says jump. Kids need to know that it is not they who are in charge of things, they are not the center of the universe. Making a child wait for something actually teaches them the wonderful merits of having patience, which is a valuable trait in later life when one finds out that everything doesn't happen right when you want it.

[MorganGrayson]

Originally Posted by CDSmith

Bingo on that point. I fully agree with this.

What I can't stand about people (on this issue) is that they bring their squawling babies and loud brats out with them, to restaurants, to malls, to MOVIES, even to business meetings. Arrange to leave your kids at home for christ sakes, and if they do act up get them out of there. Let them know that when they act up, the party's over.

The other thing I can't stand though are parents who jump whenever their kid says jump. Kids need to know that it is not they who are in charge of things, they are not the center of the universe. Making a child wait for something actually teaches them the wonderful merits of having patience, which is a valuable trait in later life when one finds out that everything doesn't happen right when you want it.

Someday, CD, your children will actually be welcome in public.

One of the most common mistakes parents make is not taking their children to restaurants from birth. If you wait until a kid is six or so before exposing them to a restaurant, you're going to get an overly stimulate kid who has no idea how to behave. If you take them to *appropriate* restaurants (family places, buffets, etc. - places that are prepared to welcome and feed small children) early in life, later on they are ready for restaurants where quiet, civilized behavior is demanded.

[Newton]

Originally Posted by Trev

You'd hate me then... My boy usually waits until the most inopportune moment to throw down a monumental strop... there was this one time while he was going for gold, some woman and her hubby looked on while shaking their heads... I found the words: "what fuck you shaking your heads at you old cunts" just slipping out...

Good man

[Bhelliom]

Seems to be a day for me to rant... good time to come back... however.. I'll have to think about this one for a few minutes.

My feelings on crying children are strong... my feelings towards stupid parents are strong... and my feelings towards ineptitude, selfishness, and an apparent lack of respect for both the child and the people around that have to listen to it are stronger still....

so I'll get back to you

[CDSmith]

Originally Posted by Bhelliom

Seems to be a day for me to rant... good time to come back... however.. I'll have to think about this one for a few minutes.

My feelings on crying children are strong... my feelings towards stupid parents are strong... and my feelings towards ineptitude, selfishness, and an apparent lack of respect for both the child and the people around that have to listen to it are stronger still....

so I'll get back to you

Based on what you've said so far I am very interested in reading what you have to say on this topic.

Looking forward to it.

[PornoDoggy]

Wahhhh.

Babies cry. Sometime they cry because they are wet or hungry. Sometimes they cry because they can - and ain't a damned thing gonna stop them.

Don't want to listen? Go someplace else.

I can understand the complaint if you are in a fine dining resturant - something a little classier than Dennys, btw.

If you're in a department store - get a grip. People with children have as much right to shop as you do. Why do any one of us have more right to be in the store than the parent with the crying baby?

I have stuborn children. The oldest two learned pretty quickly that the tantrum got "The Look" and things would not be fun for a while.

The youngest was unintimidated with the look.

Throwing herself to the floor screaming did not embarass her.

Finding dad on the floor screaming louder seemed to do the trick.

Of course, she's 26 and doesn't like to shop with me ...

[Nickatilynx]

Firstly grown ups don't fuck with me more than once , kids sure aren't ;-)))

""""when one finds out that everything doesn't happen right when you want it."""

You mean it doesn't??????WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


NO FUCKING WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

I'll scream and scream and make myself feel sick!!! AND I CAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

;-)))

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by PornoDoggy

got "The Look" and things would not be fun for a while.

The youngest was unintimidated with the look.

Throwing herself to the floor screaming did not embarass her.

Finding dad on the floor screaming louder seemed to do the trick.

We have the same play book!!!!!! lol

My Dad had "the look" to perfection. I don't think anyone ever found out what happened after the look LOL

[Dravyk]

Mommy, mommy, man turning blue, he's funny!

[Trev]

All I can say to some of the people in this thread (and many more in the real world) is if I'm ever around you and my boy is kicking off and it pisses you off... YOU better leave as a kid crying is a lot less upsetting than me throwing verbal abuse at you

[Sin]

Well luckily for everybody I have more social etiquette than to make those parents uncomfortable, instead I come here and rant. I apologize if my rant about some woman I don't even know, made any of you uncomfortable as it seems to have done.

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by Sin

I apologize if my rant about some woman I don't even know, made any of you uncomfortable as it seems to have done.

[Trev]

Originally Posted by Sin

Well luckily for everybody I have more social etiquette than to make those parents uncomfortable, instead I come here and rant. I apologize if my rant about some woman I don't even know, made any of you uncomfortable as it seems to have done.

Please don't take my posts the wrong way, this thread was perfect for both of us, you got to rant about people like me and I got to rant about people like CDSmith and Bhelliom


Thanks hon

[Sin]

Its an interesting collection of posts & perspectives, to be sure

[CDSmith]

Originally Posted by Trev

and I got to rant about people like CDSmith and Bhelliom

I wasn't aware you and I had a problem.

I'm not in the habit of shooting evil stares or snide comments at people whose kids are acting up. Doesn't mean I have to like it though, and it is the way I feel about certain situations, not all. Certainly not all parents whose kids are fussing in public are labeled as anything from where I sit. I was thinking of specific incidences when I posted my rant.

To know me is to love me. To assume is to post things like "people like CDSmith"

[CDSmith]

That said, some people out there in the world really do need to figure out how to discipline their kids.

And some people really should avoid becoming parents all together.

Cheers.

[Trev]

Originally Posted by CDSmith

I wasn't aware you and I had a problem.

I'm not in the habit of shooting evil stares or snide comments at people whose kids are acting up. Doesn't mean I have to like it though, and it is the way I feel about certain situations, not all. Certainly not all parents whose kids are fussing in public are labeled as anything from where I sit. I was thinking of specific incidences when I posted my rant.

To know me is to love me. To assume is to post things like "people like CDSmith"

I seem to be coming off all wrong the last few days, I've got no problems at all with you. I was taking this thread lightheartedly and I was mainly having a laugh being nasty parent.


Well, to an extent... those old fuckers that shook their heads were real.

[Trev]

Originally Posted by CDSmith

That said, some people out there in the world really do need to figure out how to discipline their kids.

And some people really should avoid becoming parents all together.

Cheers.

As a parent, I couldn't agree more!




I believe the "look" has been mentioned already. I'm just starting to get it right... my wife had it sorted from the get go... it's the same one she uses on me.

[Sin]

I would have loved to gone shopping in the same store as PornoDoggy & his youngest daughter... LOL

[MorganGrayson]

Interesting article on this topic.

Cafe Stirs Debate Over Kids' Behavior

By MARTHA IRVINE


CHICAGO (AP) - Dan McCauley had seen one too many kids at his cafe lying on the floor in front of the counter, careening off the glass pastry case, coming perilously close to getting their fingers pinched in the front door. So he posted a sign: "Children of all ages have to behave and use their indoor voices."

To him, it was a simple reminder to parents to keep an eye on their children and set some limits. But to some parents in his North Side Chicago neighborhood, the sign may as well have read, "If you have kids, you're not welcome."

That one little notice, adorned with pastel hand prints, has become a lightning rod in a larger debate over parenting and misbehaving children. "It's not about the kids," says McCauley, the 44-year-old owner of A Taste of Heaven cafe, who has no children but claims to like them a lot. "It's about the parents who are with them. Are they supervising and guiding them?

"I'm just asking that they are considerate to people around them."
While he has created some enemies in his neighborhood, McCauley has received hundreds of calls and more than 600 letters, the overwhelming majority of them supportive. One letter-writer from Alabama typed out in bold letters: "In my opinion, you're a hero! Keep it up."



It is a sentiment that people feel increasingly comfortable expressing. Online bloggers regularly make impassioned pleas for child-free zones in public, while e-mailers have been forwarding a photograph of a sign in an unidentified business that reads, "Unattended Children Will Be Given an Espresso and a Puppy."

While it is common policy for upscale restaurants to bar children, owners of other types of businesses also are setting limits on kids.
The Wynn Hotel in Las Vegas, for instance, does not allow visitors who aren't guests to have strollers; hotel officials say it is to prevent crashes with other pedestrians. The Bellagio Hotel does not take guests younger than 18 without special permission.

Some parents are fine with the limit-setting and complain that too many of their peers take their kids to places traditionally meant for adults, such as late-night movies and rock concerts.


Robin Piccini, a 42-year-old mom in Bridgewater, Mass., gets annoyed when she has hired a baby sitter for her daughter, only to end up seated at a restaurant next to unruly kids.

"I am paying the same price so that I can have a relaxing dinner, but because there are lazy parents out there, my dinner has to be stressful and tense," she says. "How fair is that?" Still, while they agree that some parents push the boundaries too far, other weary parents feel under siege - and misunderstood.

"Don't get me wrong. As a parent, I have an arsenal that includes the deadly stare, loss of privileges and 'We're going back to the car, RIGHT NOW!'" says Angela Toda, a 38-year-old mother of two small children in College Park, Md. "But the bottom line is, there are certain moments that all kids and parents have - and sometimes your kid is going to lose it in a public place."

She says she does not usually respond well to other people's interference, "unless it is a sympathetic look."


Parents in Port Melbourne, Australia, also were upset last year when a sign appeared on the restaurant door at the Clare Castle Hotel stating that children were welcome only if they stayed in their seats. The establishment has since changed hands and dropped the policy, which new owner Michael Farrant says makes no sense in a neighborhood filled with young families.

"I like the kids running about," says Farrant, a father of three, including a 2-year-old. "I know what it's like with a little one. Sometimes, there's no controlling them."

Still other business owners are creating separate spaces for kids and families, in an attempt to accommodate as many generations as possible.

All Booked Up in Suffolk, Va., is among bookstores that have separate sections where kids can play and rest. Many ballparks have alcohol-free "family sections." And a few restaurants have added separate dining areas for parents with children.

Zulema Suarez, a professor who studies parenting, applauds attempts to strike a balance.

"There needs to be a give and take," says Suarez, an associate professor of social work at Adelphi University in Garden City, N.Y. "Children don't need to be allowed to run wild and free, but they do need to be allowed to express themselves."

Too often, though, our cultural emphasis on freedom and individual rights gets taken to the extreme, becoming "a kind of selfish entitlement that undermines our ability to function as a civil community," says George Scarlett, a professor of child development at Tufts University in Boston.

"The rights of any one individual - whether he or she be a parent, child or stranger - do not negate the rights of others."

[Sin]

That's a great article

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by Sin

That's a great article

Cool, you read it. Could you give me the cliff notes version ?


Thanx in advance

[Sin]

Basically a summary is that there's a couple places that put up signs saying children were welcome, but they were to use their "indoor voices" and while a cafe got a LOT of support on their move and a few angry parents, a hotel lacked support (understandably, that's a totally different atmosphere)

Boils down to "Sure kids will be kids, but don't overuse 'kids' as an excuse for bad parenting" Some of the time is okay, all of the time is not.

And the part in bold at the bottom

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by Sin

Basically a summary is that there's a couple places that put up signs saying children were welcome, but they were to use their "indoor voices" and while a cafe got a LOT of support on their move and a few angry parents, a hotel lacked support (understandably, that's a totally different atmosphere)

Boils down to "Sure kids will be kids, but don't overuse 'kids' as an excuse for bad parenting" Some of the time is okay, all of the time is not.

And the part in bold at the bottom

Muchas Grassintheass

My true feelings on all of this and I will shut up and go back to whatever it is I do

Kids are kids. They aren't perfect and neither are parents. The kid comes along, there is no manual, there is basically our personal experiences and beliefs guiding our business of raising the kid. If we get them to 18 alive we have done a great job. If we get them to 18 alive and drug free we are doing an outstanding job. If we get them to 18 alive, drug free and without any children in tow we have scored the grand slam. But we all are figuring it out along the way every second of every day.

[Sin]

That's a very good take on it.

I have to disagree with some of it though.

There's parents who try, and parents who don't. I know a few kids who got to 18 alive, by their own survival skills, not their parents (and this included food, shelter, clothing, all the 'basic essential needs' that parents are SUPPOSED to provide)

[Trev]

Wow, I can’t believe this thread is still going… ok here’s my serious take on this.

Kids are kids, this is true and parents regardless of whether they’re super mom/dad or total flakes will always have “trials” with their kids. I agree it’s down to the parent to best deal with those “trials”, how best to deal with them isn’t always the easiest thing to work out at the time. Like Sarettah said these little fuckers don’t come with a manual.

There are always going to be those “trials” that happen in public, it’s my job to make them as short lived and as quiet as possible and I do try. The flaky parents are the ones that do nothing to end the “trials” and don’t give two shits about the child or the people around them.

I’ve noticed that as my son grows and progresses his “skills” become honed and he adapts them very well to many different environments. Who said being a parent was easy…


It also seems that everyday my son and I jostle for the roll of Alpha male, it’s his instinct to do it and do it he must, so we battle… one day I might win and get my position back…

[Sin]

Originally Posted by Trev

It also seems that everyday my son and I jostle for the roll of Alpha male, it’s his instinct to do it and do it he must, so we battle… one day I might win and get my position back…

HAHAH that was awesome... lol

[CDSmith]

There's a movie with Goldie Hawn in it that comes to mind... Bird on a wire?... I forget.

Anyway, at one point she has to retrieve a certain item, I think it's a stuffed animal, and it had been given to another couple's little girl, she was maybe 6 yrs old. Anyone remember this? Goldie goes over to their ritzy luxury appartment and asks for the doll or bear, whatever, and the little girl is reluctant to give it up.

The parents start doing the "talking to her like she's an adult" thing.....
"Well, honey, sometimes we have to be big about things"
"So.. can you give the bear up?"
etc etc
The girl becomes selfish and bratty, and the "reasoning" from the parents goes on and on..... until finally Goldie get's miffed and says "Oh for GAWD SAKES (steps forward and grabs the damned bear) who's in CHARGE here?" and she leaves... the parents standing there looking stunned.

That's the question with some so-called parents.... who the hell is in charge? Also, some parents nowadays do this thing where they become "friends" with their kid, like buddies, pals..... I'll tell you this much, when I was a kid there was no doubt whatsoever who was in charge, and every one of us kids (5 in all) continue to this day to have respect and love for our mom and dad. One reason is that we got damn well disciplined when we needed/deserved it.

Not abuse. Discipline. Real discipline, not this "time out" shit.

Do I sound angry? You bet I'm angry.... when I see more and more young kids out there cocking off at adults instead of listening to them... I've seen kids threaten their parents with things as "I'm gunna report you for abuse" when they don't get their own way (yes, I have actually seen this unfold right in front of me)...and is it me or does it seem like there are more and more young people doing wanton destruction of property, stealling cars, etc, over the last 15 years or so?

Anyway, in reading back over this thread I can see that this is a huge issue and a big rant for many, and the most frustrating part of it is that there is no definitive solution to it. On one hand the notion of having mandatory parental training before people are allowed to concieve is kind of attractive for certain reasons... I mean really, you have to obtain a license and take training to drive a car, legally own a gun, etc, yet no formal training to take on the role of parent, the most important role in the world.

On the other hand, to start regulating such basic human functions seems rather Orwelian..... thus the dilema. What's the answer? Maybe it's time to bring back the spanking into fashion? Seems to me a good sound spanking was something I got as a kid when I acted up too badly, and so it was with a lot of people I know. Gee, come to think of it we even watched unedited Bugs Bunny cartoons (the horror!), and we all turned out pretty well. I've certainly never ran around like a hellion in a restaruant ever, I've never stolen a car or ran a key down the side of someone's new SUV.

In closing I'd like to say that I don't believe that a lack of discipline is the only contributing factor to the problem. I believe that more parents have to also be good role models for their kids. It is the combination of proper discipline and setting a good example that it seems a lot of people have forgotten out there.

Cheers.

And Trev, no worries.

[PornoDoggy]

If you have to get physical with a child over the age of four, you're a piss-poor parent.

If you have to get physical with a child over the age of eight, you've fucked the kid up, possibly beyond repair.

How many kids do you have, CD?

[MorganGrayson]

CD...that was an excellent post and earned you points!

One of my favorite compliments came from one of my daughters. She said "you know one of the reasons I love you?" I said "what?" She said "because you're the only 'Mom' who dresses and acts like a 'Mom.'" She went on to explain about some other kid's mothers and how they dressed like their daughters and behaved like them, too.

Children *need* discipline in order to function. Life is hard enough. You have to know what the rules are. Study after study after study has proclaimed loudly that kids freak out if they don't have boundaries. They need them to feel safe.

I despise people who treat children like "short adults." They aren't "short adults," they're CHILDREN. Their brains function differently. The ability to understand and cope with "delayed gratification" doesn't even start firing in the brain until they're approaching or in their teens.

I really wish I could have seen the facial expression I have that caused my children to freeze and do a mental rewind on the last five minutes of their life to search for whatever grievious error they had just committed. (It was fun to watch them do that.) They'd find it and apologize. Sometimes it was a small thing, like forgetting to say "please" or "thank you." Sometimes it was a bigger thing like "having a tone" when they spoke to their parents.

There's no simple solutions to problems like this, CD. Schools have classes that do things like the "sack of flour" project. (Sometimes it's an egg.) My kids did it with a five pound sack of flour. They were told that was an infant and to carry it around and care for it as if it were an infant, to teach them about the responsibilities of parenthood. (I babysat the sacks of flour for them.) Some kids took it deadly seriously, some kids didn't. They thought it was a big joke. Those kids are going to grow up to be real parents someday and it's a scary thought.

[MorganGrayson]

Originally Posted by PornoDoggy

If you have to get physical with a child over the age of four, you're a piss-poor parent.

If you have to get physical with a child over the age of eight, you've fucked the kid up, possibly beyond repair.

How many kids do you have, CD?

I definitely agree, but I would have dropped the age to two. I held on to the arm of a two year old and spanked her when she ran out in front of a car in a parking lot. Thanks to a driver with quick reflexes and good brakes, nothing happened...other than the two adults involved nearly having heart attacks. I wanted to make a very clear impression that this behavior would NOT be tolerated. I made a rule that while I hauled her infant sister out of *her* car seat, the two year old was to stand with one hand on the car and *never* take the hand off until I told her to.

The inherent problem with spanking is that it's too damned easy to fall back on. You start out with "I'm only going to spank for really big things that could harm them if they did it" then find yourself drifting into spanking for things that are better handled another way. I found myself doing that, and stopped spanking altogether.

[CDSmith]

Originally Posted by PornoDoggy

If you have to get physical with a child over the age of four, you're a piss-poor parent.

If you have to get physical with a child over the age of eight, you've fucked the kid up, possibly beyond repair.

How many kids do you have, CD?

I've had plenty of experience with child care over the past 30 years, but do not have kids of my own, no. Should I then not have a right to an opinion? I know what I would and wouldn't do with my own kids, and I'm experienced enough with child care to be able to express an informed opinion.

And I hear what you're saying, but I simply can't agree with you. It would be nice if every child learned to behave before the age of 4 or 8 and never needed another spanking, but I've noticed that that's rarely the case.

You having a kid yourself doesn't instantly make you an expert on parenting PD. If it did then that would apply to everyone who is a parent out there, and as should be patently obvious by now there are a lot of idiot parents who are far from "experts"