Hey PIBCASH NICE SECURITY!

gonzo · 05-20-2004

http://www.pibcash.com/designadmin/

Not only does your security SUCK ... its open to the public.

And I like under webmaster payouts.....

Whats the TRIM function????

THEIVES and IDIOTS!
You need to hire a security/netadmin

Jace · 05-20-2004

you stole my thread

hehe

sarettah · 05-20-2004

Quote:

Originally posted by gonzo@May 20 2004, 10:44 PM
Whats the TRIM function????

Its kind of like a shave.... just a little off the top, ya know....

AM Jeff · 05-20-2004

I don't shave programs.

Just my balls.

gonzo · 05-20-2004

Select Elphantitus....

Global Trim Over Ride Percentage....

NICE!!!!

Got Epoch doing their processing too!

Nickatilynx · 05-20-2004

Oh for the love of Fuck!!!!

This isn't GFY...

I mean...

OMFG!!! an affiliate program...shaving!!!!!! (ok , trimming)

SHOCK HORROR PROBE!!!!!

ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

As Jesus said....
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone!!!!

;-))))

Last edited by Nickatilynx at May 20 2004, 08:10 PM

sarettah · 05-21-2004

Quote:

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@May 20 2004, 11:07 PM
Like he who is without sin cast the first stone!!!!

I'm just sitting here pitching stones right and left......

(which might explain my financial situation....

)

Dravyk · 05-21-2004

Gonzo, the PIB thing is so last year, bro!

gonzo · 05-21-2004

Quote:

Originally posted by Dravyk@May 20 2004, 11:50 PM
Gonzo, the PIB thing is so last year, bro!

It is now hahahaahaha

Mike AI · 05-21-2004

Quote:

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@May 20 2004, 11:07 PM
Oh for the love of Fuck!!!!

This isn't GFY...

I mean...

OMFG!!! an affiliate program...shaving!!!!!! (ok , trimming)

SHOCK HORROR PROBE!!!!!

ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

As Jesus said....
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone!!!!

;-))))

Nick, I think people are carrying on more about being OWNED with the lack of security then the shaving - that is old news as Drav says!

juliansosa · 05-21-2004

Quote:

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@May 20 2004, 08:07 PM
Oh for the love of Fuck!!!!

This isn't GFY...

I mean...

OMFG!!! an affiliate program...shaving!!!!!! (ok , trimming)

SHOCK HORROR PROBE!!!!!

ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

As Jesus said....
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone!!!!

;-))))

Only 30k surfer emails

LOL

CuriousToyBoy · 05-22-2004

There is shaving and then there is raping...

It may be old news to some (that shaving happens), but why is it just accepted? It is out-and-out criminal fraud, and it is while it is continued to be accepted so readily that it will continue..

We only shave our boys - and stand to be tested on that anytime.

My 2c on a subject that has pissed me off as an affiliate AND as a program owner for a LONG time.

:grrr:

cj · 05-22-2004

Lindsay, do you think if you speak out really strongly against something people will never suspect you of doing it?

WTF do you expect when programs still offer $30-$40 per join when a join on average is worth $5 - $11 on a $40 per month membership?!

So tell me Lindsay, how (even after qualifying webmasters by making them send 5 sales per day for 3 months) do you pay your members up to $45 per join?

Or do you just mislead people by saying 'up to $45 per join' but making the conditions of getting that payout almost impossible?

95% shave is fucking rediculous, but the reason programs do it is because they aren't making money off signups these days but webmasters won't accept lower payouts. Catch 22 ...

If you are looking for the highest paying, too good to be true payout instead of working on matching your specific traffic to a specific site then don't be surprised when the payout at the end isn't all that impressive.

Know the person you are doing business with ..... WELL.

gonzo · 05-22-2004

Quote:

Originally posted by cj@May 22 2004, 08:40 PM
Lindsay, do you think if you speak out really strongly against something people will never suspect you of doing it?

WTF do you expect when programs still offer $30-$40 per join when a join on average is worth $5 - $11 on a $40 per month membership?!

So tell me Lindsay, how (even after qualifying webmasters by making them send 5 sales per day for 3 months) do you pay your members up to $45 per join?

Or do you just mislead people by saying 'up to $45 per join' but making the conditions of getting that payout almost impossible?

95% shave is fucking rediculous, but the reason programs do it is because they aren't making money off signups these days but webmasters won't accept lower payouts. Catch 22 ...

If you are looking for the highest paying, too good to be true payout instead of working on matching your specific traffic to a specific site then don't be surprised when the payout at the end isn't all that impressive.

Know the person you are doing business with ..... WELL.

Dont answer her here dude.... youve been quite vocal over the past few weeks...why dont you skype in with us in 2 weeks and answer her question LIVE on Oprano Radio?

cj · 05-23-2004

Gonzo, its ok ... I have PLENTY of questions left for Lindsay when he comes on air ;-)

Hell Puppy · 05-23-2004

CJ nailed it. Most webmasters pretty much insist upon being shaved. It's hard to get 'em to join anything that advertises less than $30-40 PPS. Try to run an honest program and pay say $10-15 per signup, and they'll laugh at you.

It's fucking stupid, but it's always been that way. It goes all the way back to Xpics paying 20 cents per unique. Your more likely to get a fair shake on a revshare, but the perception is still that you get your money up front with PPS. That has been true in the past, but with more and more sponsors setting the shave level to "fleece", I'm not so sure it's true anymore.

Meanwhile, smart money does same thing it always has....know your traffic, count your checks and not the hits, signups or anything else. He who pays the most for the traffic wins, regardless of the formula.

Vick · 05-23-2004

Quote:

Originally posted by CuriousToyBoy@May 22 2004, 07:02 PM
There is shaving and then there is raping...

It may be old news to some (that shaving happens), but why is it just accepted? It is out-and-out criminal fraud, and it is while it is continued to be accepted so readily that it will continue..

We only shave our boys - and stand to be tested on that anytime.

My 2c on a subject that has pissed me off as an affiliate AND as a program owner for a LONG time.

:grrr:

If you have to ask why shaving is accepted you're a babe in the woods or just really naive

Also You're shaving your webmasters

No spin zone here, save the BS for somewhere else

If you use CCBill for a 3rd party processing solution (which you do) you shave weather you intend to or not

That's not a knock against CCbill, I suspect the same of Ibill but I don't know first hand

CuriousToyBoy · 05-23-2004

Quote:

Originally posted by Vick@May 23 2004, 04:34 PM
If you have to ask why shaving is accepted you're a babe in the woods or just really naive
Also You're shaving your webmasters
No spin zone here, save the BS for somewhere else
If you use CCBill for a 3rd party processing solution (which you do) you shave weather you intend to or not
That's not a knock against CCbill, I suspect the same of Ibill but I don't know first hand

I'll answer Gonzo and CJ at length later - because I would love to be on the radio show, but walking into an ambush of questions about something some people have a vested interest in, and about something ANYONE with an ounce of nouse knows would not get answered publicly, would simply allow someone with some imaginary axe to grind their guerilla tactic opportunity.

Not going to happen in this lifetime. I may be silly at times, but I am not stupid.

Now, if I ask people to contact me direct to try and clear a matter up, and they don't, it says to me they probably don't want to actually talk about anything, they already have their mind made up. So be it.

Anyway, enough said on the topic, and on to yours.

On the shaving issue, I am not naive or a babe in the woods, I was just stating my honest opinion.

As to your points on CCBill, well, I must now take off my hat and eat it, because what you say most probably has merit, no matter WHAT biller is used, and without being able to prove otherwise, my argument does not have a leg to stand on.

I can accept that, but reiterate that WE, from our end, do NOTHING of the sort.

And we are already looking at things to address the weaknesses you have rightly pointed out.

CuriousToyBoy · 05-23-2004

Quote:

Originally posted by cj@May 23 2004, 11:40 AM
Lindsay, do you think if you speak out really strongly against something people will never suspect you of doing it?
WTF do you expect when programs still offer $30-$40 per join when a join on average is worth $5 - $11 on a $40 per month membership?!
So tell me Lindsay, how (even after qualifying webmasters by making them send 5 sales per day for 3 months) do you pay your members up to $45 per join?
Or do you just mislead people by saying 'up to $45 per join' but making the conditions of getting that payout almost impossible?
95% shave is fucking rediculous, but the reason programs do it is because they aren't making money off signups these days but webmasters won't accept lower payouts. Catch 22 ...
If you are looking for the highest paying, too good to be true payout instead of working on matching your specific traffic to a specific site then don't be surprised when the payout at the end isn't all that impressive.
Know the person you are doing business with ..... WELL.

I am going to be brief, simply because you probably don't hear what I have to say anyway.....

And I just KNOW you are waiting for my silence to justify some, well, whatever it is, that you have stuck in your head. And I think you have advised others before that people in glass houses.......

On the shaving issue, I answered Vick above, and happily put my hand up and say that I actually hadn't thought of the shaving issue the way it was put via-a-vis third-party processors. That was naive on my part. And wrong. And I accepted that as above.

If you had actually checked out our sites, they DON'T trial, our minimum join is around US$30, so our average yield is HEAPS higher than sites that trial.

We have conditions due to fraud, and because we have no trial, even on revshare in the past we have been targets (as have we all at one time or another). We have CB and Refund provisions and we have levels of performance required to qualify - that is just so I don't have to be checking EVERY transaction ALL the time.

And you are right, the bottom line is matching your specific traffic to a specific site, and to KNOW the person you deal with WELL.

As far as the radio show goes, why should I talk to anyone who won't talk to me? Especially when at the end of the day it is 25c phone call?

And what I said above in my last post is all I can think?

Unless you don't actually know me as well as you think you may.

And vice-versa for that matter.

gonzo · 05-23-2004

Quote:

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Originally posted by CuriousToyBoy+May 23 2004, 03:51 AM-->
QUOTE (CuriousToyBoy @ May 23 2004, 03:51 AM)

__________________

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05-23-2004 #21

cj

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Lindsay, let me say 1 thing first, so you can drop your paranoia ...

If I truly thought your program wasn't worth of discussion, I wouldn't have brought it up. Take it as a compliment, I want to hear what you have to say - don't be a baby just because I asked you a difficult question to back up your ranting about shaving.

I like Tim & have known him for a long time, our history is all positive except for a certain friend he chooses to keep ;-) We've had some really fun times and I will always wish him the most success. You've gotten more publicity here for a first time visitor than most programs ... accident ya think?

I know why your program is structured how it is ... its smart ... you get to use impressive numbers like $45 per signup to attract webmasters but really you never have to pay more than 50% rev share to anyone but a handful of webmasters.

I thought about going this fancy bullshit marketing direction with the bling which is 50% rev share, and have on programs before ... but to be honest this time round I just couldn't be bothered putting cream and a cherry on top. If you have traffic that matches my sites, the payout will be what it is ... half of the total amount billed from the customers you send us. The better your traffic & my sites match, the more money we all make. We'll make as many sites as possible to pick up the webmasters we need.

You don't need to sell me on the benefits of wording your payout the way you have, but you can't speak on behalf of programs who are *actually* paying people per signup & act like you are doing something better when your program is effectively 50% rev share.

This kind of marketing may work on gfy, and to some extent on oprano, but if you really want to take the credibility that Tim has built over the years and do it justice you need to be able to back up your claims & let webmasters know why they should be promoting your product. Its GOOD ... the sites are GOOD ... if webmasters have the traffic for it. If you want them to build traffic for it, you need to teach them why and you will need to do more than just have an impressive sounding payout.

Whether you want to come on air or not is up to you ... I will ask you the questions that I KNOW our listeners want the answers to. Some will be uncomfortable to answer and some will not. I guarantee at the end, you will have the attention of webmasters who aren't impressed by your $45 payout.

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05-23-2004 #22

CuriousToyBoy

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Avoiding questions?

Not me.

Maybe my naivety is to actually respond instead of run away and hide? Tell me - is that such a bad thing? I try and do that because bugger all sponsors seem to at times (not ALL folks, so keep your pants on!).

I referred in the post above to 2 things specifically related to 2 of these themes:
1. The "no-trial" model makes our payouts FAR more achievable on a per join yield basis than if we trialled.
2. We have conditions in place to protect us, and to allow us to to the right thing by those who do the right thing, without doing the wrong thing.

Apart from that, our content retains. So we can pay that so long as we do not get crucified from people who try and screw us (see above post) - and that, unfortunately means rules. With over 50% retention of rebilling memberships, the math does itself.

Yes, we DO have terms and conditions, and they ARE extensive, AND we are open and honest about them, they DO NOT come as a complete surprise - whether they be reasonable or unreasonable by yours or others reckoning, well that is a totally personal decision, which affiliates can make for themselves. We have many who don't, and just as many who ask the same questions you have directly.

Oh, by the way, I answer each of those guys with the same candor with which I approach these boards.

Just like CJ said earlier - know who you are doing business with.

If we offered straight up across the board we could not sustain it - there are the fraud and other factors to be taken into account.

Bottom line is we offer what we can, the best way we can offer it - it may not be for everybody, but at least with our sliding scale we DO get the opportunity to reward loyal and productive webmasters as they deserve that.

No matter WHAT you do, how you offer it, or how you do business, you are NEVER going to make evrybody happy all of the time. I can accept that. Readily. All we can do is the best we can, in the most ethical and consistent way possible to us.

You're right, you do not know me, and I do not know you. But yet I am still here responding to you.

It was not your axe to which I referred, but you know that as well as I do.

You started this thread, and yes, I added "There is shaving and then there is raping".

I suppose my frustration, be it right, wrong or indifferent, is that even as was later quoted in this thread "it's more about being caught than actually doing the shaving in the first place".

I am bald now by choice, but I have been shaved enough in near on 5 years in this industry to sort of get absolutely befuddled by the fact that it is almost (??) an accepted evil. Call it a personal issue, call it naive, call it whatever you want, but it is my opinion, and I am HAPPY to have it.

By the way, and back to my last post re having to accept that CCBill may well do things that contradict my attitude... if I have proof I would sue.. simple and no question.

I don't know where you got this "Click here for 75% Rev Share or $5 Pay Per Join" It is and always was $45, but I have taken some points from your post here and added the words "Up To" to remove semantics.

I do hope that makes things clearer, and please, feel free to point out any more specifics you may still be unsure about (as I am sure you and CJ undoubtedly will).

And if you're just "a dumb assed country boy", well, I'll run out and buy another hat to eat after I have digested the one I ate after my last post above.

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05-23-2004 #23

CuriousToyBoy

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Quote:

Originally posted by cj@May 23 2004, 07:49 PM
Lindsay, let me say 1 thing first, so you can drop your paranoia ...

If I truly thought your program wasn't worth of discussion, I wouldn't have brought it up. Take it as a compliment, I want to hear what you have to say - don't be a baby just because I asked you a difficult question to back up your ranting about shaving.

I like Tim & have known him for a long time, our history is all positive except for a certain friend he chooses to keep ;-) We've had some really fun times and I will always wish him the most success. You've gotten more publicity here for a first time visitor than most programs ... accident ya think?

I know why your program is structured how it is ... its smart ... you get to use impressive numbers like $45 per signup to attract webmasters but really you never have to pay more than 50% rev share to anyone but a handful of webmasters.

I thought about going this fancy bullshit marketing direction with the bling which is 50% rev share, and have on programs before ... but to be honest this time round I just couldn't be bothered putting cream and a cherry on top. If you have traffic that matches my sites, the payout will be what it is ... half of the total amount billed from the customers you send us. The better your traffic & my sites match, the more money we all make. We'll make as many sites as possible to pick up the webmasters we need.

You don't need to sell me on the benefits of wording your payout the way you have, but you can't speak on behalf of programs who are *actually* paying people per signup & act like you are doing something better when your program is effectively 50% rev share.

This kind of marketing may work on gfy, and to some extent on oprano, but if you really want to take the credibility that Tim has built over the years and do it justice you need to be able to back up your claims & let webmasters know why they should be promoting your product. Its GOOD ... the sites are GOOD ... if webmasters have the traffic for it. If you want them to build traffic for it, you need to teach them why and you will need to do more than just have an impressive sounding payout.

Whether you want to come on air or not is up to you ... I will ask you the questions that I KNOW our listeners want the answers to. Some will be uncomfortable to answer and some will not. I guarantee at the end, you will have the attention of webmasters who aren't impressed by your $45 payout.

Your points are well taken Carla.

I think many times I can be my own worst enemy because I WILL respond, and maybe because you are right, maybe I did watch too much X-Files.

At least I always bite though don't I?

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05-23-2004 #24

cj

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see, that wasn't that hard now ... was it?! I didn't think you were avoiding the question ... gonzo did ;-)

I'm writing an article about judging the legitimacy of payouts with sponsor programs. ie, what does the program promise vs what it is financially capable of doing. So I was curious to hear your major points of consideration with your payout.

If you are charging $30 per month with the standard of content you have, you at least guarantee break even for those sending more than 20 per day because at least a couple will recur past month 1. Did I read right that you give the exit traffic back too? On rev share or pps or both?

Tim has my mobile and home numbers ... lets all have lunch when he is in brisbane next. He owes me some gossip & I have some questions for him

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05-23-2004 #25

cj

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Quote:

Originally posted by CuriousToyBoy@May 23 2004, 05:22 AM
At least I always bite though don't I?

yes ;-)

you know the XXXX gold ad on tv at the moment with the dog called Marlin?

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05-23-2004 #26

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Quote:

Originally posted by CuriousToyBoy@May 23 2004, 05:10 AM
Avoiding questions?

Not me.

Maybe my naivety is to actually respond instead of run away and hide? Tell me - is that such a bad thing? I try and do that because bugger all sponsors seem to at times (not ALL folks, so keep your pants on!).

I referred in the post above to 2 things specifically related to 2 of these themes:
1. The "no-trial" model makes our payouts FAR more achievable on a per join yield basis than if we trialled.
2. We have conditions in place to protect us, and to allow us to to the right thing by those who do the right thing, without doing the wrong thing.

Apart from that, our content retains. So we can pay that so long as we do not get crucified from people who try and screw us (see above post) - and that, unfortunately means rules. With over 50% retention of rebilling memberships, the math does itself.

Yes, we DO have terms and conditions, and they ARE extensive, AND we are open and honest about them, they DO NOT come as a complete surprise - whether they be reasonable or unreasonable by yours or others reckoning, well that is a totally personal decision, which affiliates can make for themselves. We have many who don't, and just as many who ask the same questions you have directly.

Oh, by the way, I answer each of those guys with the same candor with which I approach these boards.

Just like CJ said earlier - know who you are doing business with.

If we offered straight up across the board we could not sustain it - there are the fraud and other factors to be taken into account.

Bottom line is we offer what we can, the best way we can offer it - it may not be for everybody, but at least with our sliding scale we DO get the opportunity to reward loyal and productive webmasters as they deserve that.

No matter WHAT you do, how you offer it, or how you do business, you are NEVER going to make evrybody happy all of the time. I can accept that. Readily. All we can do is the best we can, in the most ethical and consistent way possible to us.

You're right, you do not know me, and I do not know you. But yet I am still here responding to you.

It was not your axe to which I referred, but you know that as well as I do.

You started this thread, and yes, I added "There is shaving and then there is raping".

I suppose my frustration, be it right, wrong or indifferent, is that even as was later quoted in this thread "it's more about being caught than actually doing the shaving in the first place".

I am bald now by choice, but I have been shaved enough in near on 5 years in this industry to sort of get absolutely befuddled by the fact that it is almost (??) an accepted evil. Call it a personal issue, call it naive, call it whatever you want, but it is my opinion, and I am HAPPY to have it.

By the way, and back to my last post re having to accept that CCBill may well do things that contradict my attitude... if I have proof I would sue.. simple and no question.

I don't know where you got this "Click here for 75% Rev Share or $5 Pay Per Join" It is and always was $45, but I have taken some points from your post here and added the words "Up To" to remove semantics.

I do hope that makes things clearer, and please, feel free to point out any more specifics you may still be unsure about (as I am sure you and CJ undoubtedly will).

And if you're just "a dumb assed country boy", well, I'll run out and buy another hat to eat after I have digested the one I ate after my last post above.

You got some guts and nuts and thats great in this biz!
For the record I hate the skinning shaving raping shit too...

At least when we pressed you ...you didnt announce on JustBlows that you were retiring from posting on the boards. So that shows you have conviction.

Get with Carla JaYne and line up some time if you want to come on... we can discuss shaving and such from the "down under" prospective.

__________________

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05-24-2004 #27

CuriousToyBoy

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Quote:

Originally posted by cj@May 23 2004, 08:25 PM

see, that wasn't that hard now ... was it?! I didn't think you were avoiding the question ... gonzo did ;-)
I'm writing an article about judging the legitimacy of payouts with sponsor programs. ie, what does the program promise vs what it is financially capable of doing. So I was curious to hear your major points of consideration with your payout.
If you are charging $30 per month with the standard of content you have, you at least guarantee break even for those sending more than 20 per day because at least a couple will recur past month 1. Did I read right that you give the exit traffic back too? On rev share or pps or both?
Tim has my mobile and home numbers ... lets all have lunch when he is in brisbane next. He owes me some gossip & I have some questions for him

Hey CJ,

Sorry for the delay in responding - Mondays are generally my day off, or at least taking it easy :-)

Have let Tim know and he will sort lunch for when he is next in Brisvegas... looking forward to it :-)

Console credit IS given to ALL sites on the console chain that are WITHIN the program - the full site generally always is, and 3 from 6 on the multi are also. We are hoping to be able to offer "choose your own exits" (none - to whereever you want it) in the near future.

Your math is right also, we can cover what we offer PPJ with the numbers we allow to qualify - hence the conditions in place. And of course we have less headaches with fraud, so we have even less $$ pressure when this is factored in.

Cheers

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05-24-2004 #28

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Quote:

Originally posted by gonzo@May 23 2004, 08:35 PM
You got some guts and nuts and thats great in this biz!
For the record I hate the skinning shaving raping shit too...
At least when we pressed you ...you didnt announce on JustBlows that you were retiring from posting on the boards. So that shows you have conviction.
Get with Carla JaYne and line up some time if you want to come on... we can discuss shaving and such from the "down under" prospective.

Hiya Gonzo,

Same apology for delay in response as my last post back to Carla

Thanks for recognition of my responses - even if they do not satisfy all and sundry, it is nice to know they are appreciated (in what ever form that may take) and definitely provides encouragement to me to continue to respond as I always have.

Unfortunately for many, I have NO inclination to retire from posting any time soon

Ha ha - Dayum - I've only just begun here!!

Anywasy, hopefully will be hooking up with CJ soon enough and I'll see if she can't paint a nice little ropund traget on me to get me on the show!

Cheers

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05-20-2004	#4
AM Jeff Members Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Louisville, Ky Posts: 227	I don't shave programs. Just my balls. __________________ Need a sweet deal on advertising on Oprano?? Hit me up on ICQ. 9078231 or PM me.

05-21-2004	#8
Dravyk Easy Like Sunday Morning Want to see your own Advertising Here! Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Behind a couch, somewhere in Philly Posts: 7,628	Gonzo, the PIB thing is so last year, bro! __________________ All Of 'Em Mainstream Webmasters New: WebmasterConventions.com

05-20-2004	#1
gonzo Fat Fucking Nobody Want to see your own Advertising Here! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Atlanta,Ga. Posts: 17,795 Blog Entries: 11	http://www.pibcash.com/designadmin/ Not only does your security SUCK ... its open to the public. And I like under webmaster payouts..... Whats the TRIM function???? THEIVES and IDIOTS! You need to hire a security/netadmin __________________ We are putting the bastards of this world on notice; greed and corruption will always be met with "a voice made of ink and rage." "Never try and be like anyone else" - Hunter S. Thompson "The truth is the truth no matter how you try and package a lie" - Shellee Hale

05-20-2004	#2
Jace .... $100 for every ImLive sign-up Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 4,392 Blog Entries: 1	you stole my thread hehe

05-20-2004	#6
Nickatilynx Banned Want to see your own Advertising Here! Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Vancouver Canada Posts: 15,115	Oh for the love of Fuck!!!! This isn't GFY... I mean... OMFG!!! an affiliate program...shaving!!!!!! (ok , trimming) SHOCK HORROR PROBE!!!!! ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha As Jesus said.... Let he who is without sin cast the first stone!!!! ;-)))) Last edited by Nickatilynx at May 20 2004, 08:10 PM

05-22-2004	#12
CuriousToyBoy Members Join Date: May 2004 Location: The Great Southern Land Posts: 986	There is shaving and then there is raping... It may be old news to some (that shaving happens), but why is it just accepted? It is out-and-out criminal fraud, and it is while it is continued to be accepted so readily that it will continue.. We only shave our boys - and stand to be tested on that anytime. My 2c on a subject that has pissed me off as an affiliate AND as a program owner for a LONG time. :grrr: __________________ CuriousCash - 100% Exclusive Twink Sites Since 1999 <===> EuroSexFeed - 25 Niche DVD Content For Less Than $1 Gb Adult Who's Who ==> Ambush Interview ==> ICQ 293 070 684 ==> lindsay AT sbmgt DOT com

05-22-2004	#13
cj Members Want to see your own Advertising Here! Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Down Under Posts: 5,202	Lindsay, do you think if you speak out really strongly against something people will never suspect you of doing it? WTF do you expect when programs still offer $30-$40 per join when a join on average is worth $5 - $11 on a $40 per month membership?! So tell me Lindsay, how (even after qualifying webmasters by making them send 5 sales per day for 3 months) do you pay your members up to $45 per join? Or do you just mislead people by saying 'up to $45 per join' but making the conditions of getting that payout almost impossible? 95% shave is fucking rediculous, but the reason programs do it is because they aren't making money off signups these days but webmasters won't accept lower payouts. Catch 22 ... If you are looking for the highest paying, too good to be true payout instead of working on matching your specific traffic to a specific site then don't be surprised when the payout at the end isn't all that impressive. Know the person you are doing business with ..... WELL.

05-23-2004	#15
cj Members Want to see your own Advertising Here! Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Down Under Posts: 5,202	Gonzo, its ok ... I have PLENTY of questions left for Lindsay when he comes on air ;-)

05-23-2004	#16
Hell Puppy Fat Fucking Nobody Want to see your own Advertising Here! Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 6,523	CJ nailed it. Most webmasters pretty much insist upon being shaved. It's hard to get 'em to join anything that advertises less than $30-40 PPS. Try to run an honest program and pay say $10-15 per signup, and they'll laugh at you. It's fucking stupid, but it's always been that way. It goes all the way back to Xpics paying 20 cents per unique. Your more likely to get a fair shake on a revshare, but the perception is still that you get your money up front with PPS. That has been true in the past, but with more and more sponsors setting the shave level to "fleece", I'm not so sure it's true anymore. Meanwhile, smart money does same thing it always has....know your traffic, count your checks and not the hits, signups or anything else. He who pays the most for the traffic wins, regardless of the formula.