Eco-Terrorists?

[Rox]

At 5 AM in West Covina, someone vandalized and set fire to a car dealership, burning a bunch of Hummers. The news (Fox 11 LA, if it matters) is saying it was done by "eco-terrorists" because some of the vehicles were sprayed with the following graffiti:

I Pollution (single heart, of course)
Fat Lazy Americans
E.L.F. (Earth Liberation Front)

Had there been no anti-SUV graffiti, this crime would be classified as arson and vandalism, but with a little bit of spray paint it's now an "act of domestic terrorism."

I just find it very interesting how this one small detail changes things. And I wonder if the perpetrators understood how a few lines of spray paint have turned their crime from one that would fall under local jurisdiction into one that will surely bring the Feds into the picture, and make their punishment far more severe.

Y'know, I'm all for people supporting whatever it is they believe in and feel passionate about, and being able to voice their grievances and opinions in whatever manner they wish. But destroying someone else's property goes over the line. These people could've made their point by peacefully picketing the dealership and they'd have probably gotten just as much media coverage, without alienating people like me by engaging in the destruction of someone's business and putting a whole bunch of hard-working people out of a job.

Everyone knows I lean pretty hard to the left, especially when it comes to preserving the gifts of Nature. But things like this make it easy to see why lots of people get disgusted with the "tree-huggers" and tune out EVERYONE who might speak out against those things that are harmful to the ecology. Extremists of any stripe just piss people off, and make it difficult for the non-extremists to be heard or trusted.

Really sad.

[Vick]

NEWS FLASH .........
The Earth can take care of it's self
We are all at the mercy of this planet
We can be wiped from the face of this planet at any time
I love people who say "Save the Planet", they can't even save the human race
The Earth can wipe us out at any time

[Peaches]

I suspect it was Gonzo and Hellpuppy doing a bit o' painting after a few cocktails during their 24 Hummer test drive.......

Seriously, it reminds me of the "hate" crime issue. If a group of white guys robbed and raped a white woman, that's rape. If she's a black woman, it suddenly becomes a "hate" crime.

[Rox]

http://www.nbc4.tv/news/2424749/detail.html

A link, finally!

[DaveAFX]

A clever defense attorney certainly will use this as a defense against the harsher terrorism prosecution. Claiming that more severe punishment would be infingement of freedom of speech rights. That the crime must be prosecuted simply as the underlying act.
Might work, especially in CA.

[Rox]

Originally posted by Vick@Aug 22 2003, 06:35 AM
NEWS FLASH .........
The Earth can take care of it's self
We are all at the mercy of this planet
We can be wiped from the face of this planet at any time
I love people who say "Save the Planet", they can't even save the human race
The Earth can wipe us out at any time

Vick, I'm with ya there. I'm all for each of us doing what we can to "tread lightly" and not fuck up the planet we live on. When it comes right down to it, this Earth will survive long after it stops being able to support one puny little species like homo sapiens. I'd not like to rush our demise, but I certainly don't think destruction of property or "ecotage" as the ELF calls it is doing a damned thing to help the planet or humankind. What hubris!

[Rox]

Originally posted by Peaches@Aug 22 2003, 06:36 AM
I suspect it was Gonzo and Hellpuppy doing a bit o' painting after a few cocktails during their 24 Hummer test drive.......

Peaches, you crack me up!!!

Seriously, it reminds me of the "hate" crime issue. If a group of white guys robbed and raped a white woman, that's rape. If she's a black woman, it suddenly becomes a "hate" crime.

Yes, isn't it curious how a little bit of language can change everything?

[Rox]

Originally posted by DaveAFX@Aug 22 2003, 06:49 AM
A clever defense attorney certainly will use this as a defense against the harsher terrorism prosecution. Claiming that more severe punishment would be infingement of freedom of speech rights. That the crime must be prosecuted simply as the underlying act.
Might work, especially in CA.

Dave, I'd almost agree, except for the fact that the ELF (again with the language thing) pretty much identify themselves as what we consider terrorists.

http://www.earthliberationfront.com/about/

By operating in cells (small groups that consist of one to several people), the security of group members is maintained. Each cell is anonymous not only to the public but also to one another.

Even in California, it's going to be difficult to defend as anything other than domestic terrorism.

[PornoDoggy]

Eco-terrorists? Spoiled little suburban kids who take the whole 60s-retro thing three steps too far is what most of them strike me as. Not that I don't appreciate at least some of what they claim to believe.

I think the vandals like these punks should be allowed to work off their debt to society at an hourly wage approrpriate for a more environmentally friendly era ... say, 1700. They should be given hand tools, a knife, a bow and some arrows, and allowed to clear out some of the undergrowth cluttering up our deepest forests, and provided with the materials to build themselves a Waldenesqe little cabin.

Now, if they get to spiking trees that threaten to harm workers, then they should be treated no differently than the murderers who shoot doctors in the name of stopping killing.

But there are a lot of ecoterrorists out there, and not all of them are prone to wearing Earth Shoes. Of course, the majority of them don't profess noble intent - they just want to make a buck, which is neither inherently noble or ignoble. It is entirely appropriate for a ferret or a monkey to have instinctive faith that the earth can heal itself. Man, who is capable of far greater destruction and at least allegedly capable of reason, needs to be a bit more careful.

[wig]

These type of wackos do give the true environmentalist a bad name.

But, less than 1% of the so called environmentalists actually are intelligent people with valid points, common sense and facts.

The rest are either extreme wackos like these ELF characters or misinformed sheep who act more on emotion than reason.

Save the Earth has the same "unwavering" appeal to some people as religion does for others. In both cases you end up with an overwhelming majority of extremists and folks that have good intentions but poor reasoning.

[ulfie]

Ummm, excuse me.....

ter·ror·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tr-rzm)
n.
The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

How does this act not fit the definition of terrorism?

[PornoDoggy]

Originally posted by wig@Aug 22 2003, 11:10 AM
These type of wackos do give the true environmentalist a bad name.

But, less than 1% of the so called environmentalists actually are intelligent people with valid points, common sense and facts.

The rest are either extreme wackos like these ELF characters or misinformed sheep who act more on emotion than reason.

Save the Earth has the same "unwavering" appeal to some people as religion does for others. In both cases you end up with an overwhelming majority of extremists and folks that have good intentions but poor reasoning.

No offense, but I consider myself an environmentalist and an intelligent person in possession of valid points, facts, and common sense.

I do consider the views of the folks from the "eco-extreme" to have limited touch with reality.

Your characterization of environmentalists differs from the description offered by PETA/ELF/??? for those who do not share their views only in the fact that you take an opposite absolutist position.

[PornoDoggy]

Originally posted by ulfie@Aug 22 2003, 11:23 AM
Ummm, excuse me.....

ter·ror·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tr-rzm)
n.
The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

How does this act not fit the definition of terrorism?

I think they are terrorists, and should be treated accordingly.

I don't think that your garden variety activist who would hang a banner, chain himself to a tree, or mount a treehouse is a terrorist. A nitwit, maybe - but not a terrorist. Don't take that to mean I don't think they should be prosecuted, either - I just don't consider the nature of their crime to be the equivilant of burning shit down, blowing stuff up, or potentially harming other people.

[Mike AI]

Crimes many times are classified by INTENT. Eco-terrorism would certainly fit that bill.

There is a difference between somone tagging a car, and then someone painting anti-polutions things on a car.... at least now in the eyes of the law.

[PornoDoggy]

I don't think that the law should treat a tagger any different that a tagger who tries to hide behind a just cause. They should be no more harsh, nor any more linient, in either case.

[Mike AI]

Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Aug 22 2003, 12:07 PM
I don't think that the law should treat a tagger any different that a tagger who tries to hide behind a just cause. They should be no more harsh, nor any more linient, in either case.

Hmmmm PD then you are against the concept of "hate crimes" ?

What about Murder 1, 2, manslaughter, etc...

[wig]

Originally posted by PornoDoggy+Aug 22 2003, 11:29 AM-->