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I found it to be a little over the top myself, a little too detailed, a little too much like someone was trying to scare me. And a little too religeous at times for me.
Alex
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Overall, I'd give it a 6 ... which is a pretty high rating coming from me for ANY President's State of the Union. I could do without the revival meeting happy crappy. And will the Republicans PLEASE take up a collection and buy the man a new fucking word? The word "focused" in conjunction with GW is beginning to affect me the way fingernails on a chalkboard do.
I am also not quite sure how he's going to AVOID "passing debts off to our grandchildren" when he proposes 400 Billion (+/-) new spending and 600 Billion (+/-) in tax cuts. That's just traditional Republican "Don't Tax and Spend Anyway" strategy.
I felt, however, he did a much better job of laying out the case against Iraq than he has done until now.
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Originally posted by DAMNMAN@Jan 28 2003, 10:06 PM He needs to leave GOD out of the fucking office and keep it at home.
I didn't vote in the poll 'cause my choice wasn't up there:
Pretty OK speach but quit (typo edited) sucking god's dick already!!!
This country was founded on a belief in god, and those who created this country and this government had no problem mentioning god freely during their speeches and government functions. Why should that change now?
I think this country was also founded by people who believe that leeches and bleeding made good medicine, that bathing too frequently caused health problems, and that certain segments of humanity could and were bought and sold as property. Very enlightened views for the time ... but not terribly appropriate today.
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Well he certainly has grown into looking like a president.
scary time in history, so many people in the United States and most of its allies not on board for a war on Iraq.
I don't mind old fashioned values and ways, i find it comforting to hear God mentioned even though i'm an agnostic - but I don't like to hear God's name invoked so much by this President, that is scary. I wouldn't have voted for Bush just on the abortion issue alone, the religious stance against stem cell research is frightening.
it was an hour long speech, voodooman, what the heck did you do for the OTHER 55 minutes?
Geez.
Alex
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I suppose if George W Bush were to get up and do a fuckin' rain dance to some other GOD on that stage (Besides the one you're thinking of right now!) trying to get a downpour or if he started sporting a bone through his nose in respect for Baal or Pazzuzu, you'd be OK with that?
Most of our founding fathers weren't religious fanatics neither.
They were trying to start a country free from the religious chains that bound the wills of thinking people and kept their ideas in the dark.
And yes I am an Atheist!
I am not an agnostic, I am an atheist. I am not riding the fence on this issue for fear that my opinions are unpopular. And I am not scared of divine retribution. "For there is none!"
Oh my god, LIGHTNING!!!!hnvneneienuinrg7458937892456785894jie g
Just kidding!!!!
For instance: If the god I do not believe in does exist will he kindly come down here and give me the blow job of a lifetime. (and perhaps toss my salad for a few 1000 years, a millennia won't be that long a time for a GOD after all!!!)
The way I figure it is:
If this mythical being GOD invented the lips and invented the dick GOD must have also created blowjobs.
This logic leads me to the conclusion that GOD would be the absolute pinnacle of blowjob givers in the entire realm of his power.
So to prove his existence to me the least he could do is suck my dick.
I will not settle for the video of GOD sucking someone else's dick. Or having it written down in some excellent work of contradictions by 12 guys smokin' crack on avenue D after he dies neither.
I am insulted by the fact that the most powerful man in the world is spouting this religious non-sense.
Oh, now see ya' done got me talkin' religion again. "Did I say talkin'? I meant blaspheming!!!"
Anyone in the porn industry that is a Christian (or says they are) or a member of any other religion that forbids adultery is going against the dogma they are supposed to be upholding. (Otherwise known as a hypocrite)
Standard disclaimer: in order to talk about something that one believes doesn't exist one has to preface the statement with this "If the god I do not believe in does exist......." It doesn’t mean shit!!!!!
The seperation of church and state seems to be slowly closing.
Our attorney general is covering lady justice and reading the bible to his employees at the office, Our president is referring to god as though he was at the pulpit.
This is frighteningly reminscent of the catholic church in europe some hundreds of years ago.
Thank GOD I've got a boat! Cause believe me, when/if the first chemical bomb goes off in our state and people are telling me that it's time to *believe* and *have faith* cause *god will take care of me in another life* i'll be crusin to the caribbean and wont be looking back til god isnt running the country and the chemicals have faded away.j
Ok, so now that i'm done huffing and puffing. It saddens me where our country is. It saddens me where it appears to be going. I hope that this nimrod doesnt fuck everything up for us and our children :-(
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When I look at where the USA is, and where its going, Im just happy
that I dont have children. I used to think that I wanted children,
but raising a child in this time, in the usa, it scares the hell outta me.
Unemployment on the rise,
taxes getting outta control
just to make up for money
hungry politican jackasses.
etc...
I dont have to watch some blundering idiot (Bush) give a state of the
Union(lies all fucking lies)
to know that the State of our Union is in shambles, and showing no
sign of anything possitive whatsoever.
Im american born, american bred, and Ill be american till Im dead,
but there are going to have to be drastic changes takes very soon.
Originally posted by Sword@Jan 28 2003, 11:15 PM An interesting side note: Bill Clinton often mentioned god in the same way in his speeches and addresses.
Sitting alone, working and listening to Bush, I actually yelled "lying sack of shit" at the TV...
He is one of the few politicians that pushes all the wrong buttons for me...
I would love to hear someone take him up in public on the church - state issues, this really is starting to get scary if your not christian.
Alex
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Originally posted by Sword@Jan 29 2003, 12:15 AM An interesting side note: Bill Clinton often mentioned god in the same way in his speeches and addresses.
Sorry, he didn't stand up and suggest "faith based initiatives"... he didn't permit bible studies in the whitehouse... and he didn't "play the god card" as justification for war...
What's next, no drinking on Sundays?
Alex
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Originally posted by Sword@Jan 29 2003, 12:15 AM An interesting side note: Bill Clinton often mentioned god in the same way in his speeches and addresses.
When I stub my toe on a rock I say "GOD DAMN IT!" 'cause it's a programmed response. What's your point?
I didn't watch the State of the Union address because .......
I already know Bush is God
Hooper brings up an interesting point ......
Reminds me of the Stephen King story "The Mist" Freaky things happen and ...... religion is taken to extremes .... older religions than Christianity
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Sword, there is a difference between saying "god" and invoking "GOD" for your benefit. The President is suppose to be a leader of ALL Americans, not SOME of them.
The entire speech was tinged with Christian morals, Christian values, and Christian institutions...
That isn't a subtle difference from Clinton, it is a world away... GOD DAMN!
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When I first read Damnman's post, I thought he LITERALLY meant the word "god" should be left out. That's why I pointed out that Clinton used the word alot too.
As far as the overall religious agenda of Bush vs Clinton, agreed they are night and day.
I was only commenting on the use of the word god, not all the other religous agenda of Bush's.
Sword, problem is, Bush doesn't seem to be able to use the word "god" without invoking "GOD"... which suggests that, except for a "god bless america", he might want to cool it. It isn't inclusive, it excludes people.... points out differences instead of similarity.
Waiting for the proof on Saddam, not the "US intelligence say" stuff either, that is crap, because US intelligence has had more breakdowns in the last few years than a Psych ward.
Alex
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Originally posted by DAMNMAN@Jan 29 2003, 01:23 AM I didn't take offense at all I was just kicking the ball back to you with that statement and question.
Oh my bad. Thought I ticked you off or something.
I say goddamn a lot too. Although lately it's been more of a "gotdam" and it's usually when one of my stupid cats gets under my feet and I have to hurtle my body across the room and into a wall in order to avoid squishing it's guts out with my foot.
Originally posted by RawAlex@Jan 28 2003, 09:18 PM Sitting alone, working and listening to Bush, I actually yelled "lying sack of shit" at the TV...
He is one of the few politicians that pushes all the wrong buttons for me...
I would love to hear someone take him up in public on the church - state issues, this really is starting to get scary if your not christian.
Alex
This is getting scary even if you ARE a Christian...
I have to agree with you Alex - there's a BIG REASON why there's a separation between church and state and I feel that those lines need to be defined a little more clearly.
What I hated about the address - same thing I hate every year - is the bogus bullshit hat trick that the Prez of the hour plays on America. Give a little here....take a little there.... watch me wave my wand in this direction and I'll pull this coin out of your ass. They all do it - Bush is no different - but I agree, he pushes all my wrong buttons too. Has from the very beginning.
Voodooman, I don't think we're particularly scared of North Korea. I'd be willing to bet that we'd take them out tomorrow IF there was a way to do it that wouldn't end up with a whole bunch of dead South Koreans (remember the South Koreans? they live on the other half of that peninsula, we're there to defend them, and maybe - just maybe - they ought to have some input into what we decide to do). I thought we gave up destroying villages in order to save them in Vietnam.
The armchair warriors who advocate the so-called surgical strike on North Korean nuclear facilities seem to think that we could do that without getting Seoul destroyed and starting a ground war. Ground wars in Asia have not particularly proven to be an American specialty. The only way we could do that - strike that, the only HOPE we might have of possibly doing that would require forces and weaponry that we simply can't afford to use unless WE (the U.S. and South Korean forces) are attacked.
I'm not saying it's an unsolveable problem - although it's a damned tough one, and frankly far harder than Iraq. So if you got a way to stand up to them bastards with force that doesn't do more damage than good, I'm sure plenty of people would love to hear it.
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Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Jan 29 2003, 01:07 AM Voodooman, I don't think we're particularly scared of North Korea. I'd be willing to bet that we'd take them out tomorrow IF there was a way to do it that wouldn't end up with a whole bunch of dead South Koreans (remember the South Koreans? they live on the other half of that peninsula, we're there to defend them, and maybe - just maybe - they ought to have some input into what we decide to do). I thought we gave up destroying villages in order to save them in Vietnam.
The armchair warriors who advocate the so-called surgical strike on North Korean nuclear facilities seem to think that we could do that without getting Seoul destroyed and starting a ground war. Ground wars in Asia have not particularly proven to be an American specialty. The only way we could do that - strike that, the only HOPE we might have of possibly doing that would require forces and weaponry that we simply can't afford to use unless WE (the U.S. and South Korean forces) are attacked.
I'm not saying it's an unsolveable problem - although it's a damned tough one, and frankly far harder than Iraq. So if you got a way to stand up to them bastards with force that doesn't do more damage than good, I'm sure plenty of people would love to hear it.
PD,
My point was missed, and maybe because of my choice of words.
I dont think we are particularly 'scared' of anyone, but politics
limits our actions.
If we attack NK, it will piss off many other countries, including China.
Well, we wouldnt want to do this now would we?
Fuck China
Fuck North Korea
Fuck Iraq
Fuck France
Fuck Germany.
If your on a street, and all the sudden your surrounded by 10 guys,
what do you do?
You go after the biggest one first.
We need to stop dicking around with politics and take care of business.
Maybe I missed your point, maybe I just "don't get it." You seem to be saying "fuck South Korea" too, and supposedly those troops we have over there are for their protection. It's not Russian or Chinese or Japanese reaction that keep us from acting against North Korea - it's the fact that it's a tactical fucking nightmare. About the only way we could do a strike on North Korea is to go to war with them. I don't think we have the capabilities to do that without going nuclear, and nuclear on a first strike. Not exactly a logical contribution to an attempt to prevent the proliferation of nuclear weapons, now, is it? And I agree whole-heartedly with what Serge said in another thread today - once that genie is out of the bottle there will be no putting it back in.
Same thing in the Iraq situation. If GW DOES "have the goods" on Saddam, duct-tape Rumsfeld's mouth shut and let Colin Powell and the State Department do their job - which is to convince our allies that what we are doing is in their best interests as well. Yes - if I'm on the street and I'm feeling threatened I'm going to strike first and hard. However, if I can talk a couple of big guys into going with me, I'm going to do that. And I don't think telling them they are too pussy to join me and I don't need them when all I've got is the support of a couple of munchkins is going to be very helpful.
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PD,
Im not saying fuck South Korea at all.
I tend to agree with most of your comments as well.
I was using the issue of NK as an example of how
politics has limited the usa in any military campaign
against a threatening country. We are so worried
about who we piss off, that its all going to one day
come back to bite EVERYONE in the ass.
Alot of people dont want this war with Iraq because
they think its GWB trying to finish what his daddy
started.
I agree with you on the part that if we have our allies
in place prior to attacking Iraq, sure, its in our best
interest, but there is no doubt in my mind that our
military is quite capable of doing the job on our own.
We send aid to damnear every country in the UN.
But when push comes to shove, they are against us?
I just see major problems with this. Our Economy is
horrible, but we still send money to these countries
just to keep then on our allies list, but where are they
when we need them?
If I sound pretty confusing, well, its 4:30am and
Im tired.
Good Night!!!
Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Jan 28 2003, 10:57 PM I think this country was also founded by people who believe that leeches and bleeding made good medicine, that bathing too frequently caused health problems, and that certain segments of humanity could and were bought and sold as property. Very enlightened views for the time ... but not terribly appropriate today.
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Iraq. A. Switched the burden of proof from US/UN to Saddam. Excellent.
Some of Bush' ideas were very grand. Hydro power? Interesting.
Bush is an excellent politician. As good as Clinton. Make no mistake - Clinton was an amazing politician and so is Bush. What president isn't though? He was reaching out for next year's votes already and did it very smoothly - despite Hillary's shaking head. *tsk tsk*
Don't like the tax cut. Would rather see less spending and same taxes to balance budget. Can tax cuts stimulate economy? Sometimes but not always. Depends on other factors. Do we know when they will work? No one has figured that out yet. Thats why economists still have jobs. Now? Dunno. I'd rather see no tax cuts.
America was long out of the recession by the time of the 1992 election but the press and others were still talking as if we were in it. Despite the evidence I couldn't talk anyone into believing we weren't in a recession during the '92 election and the newspapers were still carrying that news. Bush I got beat over the head for a recession that was already over. Will Bush II? I noted in the democratic response "Some say the economy is recovering ..." which could mean "The economy is slowly recovering .. but ..." Bush could catch some excellent timing.
Is there any reason to actually do anything to stimulate the economy? Probably not. Recessions are normal. They're par for the course, golfers. If Bush pushes through an economic stimulus plan he will most likely be the beneficiary of an improving economy anyway.
Doesn't matter though because this is about the war.
On the "Christian" issue. I'm an atheist. If memory is correct, Bush's "God Bless America" and related statements were no more prevalent than are normally made in a presidential speech. As a non-christian you should be used to it by now. It's pretty normal. "In God We Trust". It's on our money.
Here's a good idea. Let's redefine a recession as two consecutive terms of negative budgets.
Good speech. Excellent on Iraq.
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GiGi,
WTF you talkin' about? Cutting taxes is not Socialist. Helping the truly needy might be construed that way; but it is also the American way. I would prefer it to be done via charities; but as long as I don't have to give to both...
About the 'God' thing...I am an agnostic; but I do not panic/get all crazy when I hear/see the word. I AM AN AMERICAN! Read the damned first amendment, Goddammit!
Do you remember, your President Nixon?
Do you remember, the bills you have to pay
Or even yesterday?
Have you have been an un-American?
Just you and your idol singing falsetto 'bout
Leather, leather everywhere, and
Not a myth left from the ghetto
Well, well, well, would you carry a razor
In case, just in case of depression?
Sit on your hands on a bus of survivors
Blushing at all the afro-Sheilas
Ain't that close to love?
Well, ain't that poster love?
Well, it ain't that Barbie doll
Her heart's been broken just like you have
All night
You want the young American
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Something about Bush has never set right with me, and I couldn't put my finger on it. Think I finally have:
I believe he is a big phoney........... he comes over to me as being INSINCERE. I just can't shake that feeling. I think he is play acting at being a Christian.
President Carter - yeh he walked and talked like a Christian. He was a Chritian. He was sincere and continues to live his life that way. Bush.... it is all play acting, and overdone at that.
I think he is a hypacrite - I have trouble trusting him.
that's what i read yesterday, the military is against Bush's strategy and
there's already a real rift between the civilians and the military lifers. Not a good thing!
I believe it is VERY important to keep a strict seperation of church and state. When you mix the two you end up with something very similar to the crusades, national religions, and divine rulers. I don't think anyone wants that.
So, Torone...I don't think it is just the "Libs". And I don't think they/we fear the word God...it is more of the consequences that result in bringing organized religion too close to government.
Torone, what would a political debate be without the extreme left of the extreme left be?
I don't fear the word "god". I use it alot myself, as in "god damn" and "Jesus H Christ"...
Seriously, the word itself is never and issue. 1st amendment says anyone has the right to use it all they want. But your constitution also discusses seperation of church and state. I personally feel that some of the programs, ideas, and examples used by your President showed a certain failure to understand that seperation. Many examples were given of "good christians" doing good things... but apparently no muslim, shinto,buddist, jewish, or other organization does good for their community. That is sad. As a politician, he should be know what politically correct means - it means working to include all groups in everything you do, and not to promote one group over the other. "Faith based initiatives" is just nice words for giving tax dollars to christian churches. That isn't in everyones best interest.
I have explained to you many times over my personal stake in this. A rock dropped in the pond in the US still rippled all over the world. My business comes from the US, many of my clients, and the political and economic situation in the US is important to me as a result.
Alex
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Let's go to the edge of disaster Push the pedal and go a little faster Let's slam into a wall at ramming speed Let's go to the edge of a mountain Jump off and lets start countin' Hit the ground and tell me if it bleeds
Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Jan 29 2003, 04:26 AM Maybe I missed your point, maybe I just "don't get it." You seem to be saying "fuck South Korea" too, and supposedly those troops we have over there are for their protection. It's not Russian or Chinese or Japanese reaction that keep us from acting against North Korea - it's the fact that it's a tactical fucking nightmare. About the only way we could do a strike on North Korea is to go to war with them. I don't think we have the capabilities to do that without going nuclear, and nuclear on a first strike. Not exactly a logical contribution to an attempt to prevent the proliferation of nuclear weapons, now, is it? And I agree whole-heartedly with what Serge said in another thread today - once that genie is out of the bottle there will be no putting it back in.
Same thing in the Iraq situation. If GW DOES "have the goods" on Saddam, duct-tape Rumsfeld's mouth shut and let Colin Powell and the State Department do their job - which is to convince our allies that what we are doing is in their best interests as well. Yes - if I'm on the street and I'm feeling threatened I'm going to strike first and hard. However, if I can talk a couple of big guys into going with me, I'm going to do that. And I don't think telling them they are too pussy to join me and I don't need them when all I've got is the support of a couple of munchkins is going to be very helpful.
I believe you are correct about the nuclear first strike being the only way to win a war with North Korea (It would be horrible of course) and also being a road we would rather not go down. I started a thread on this topic the other day.
01-28-2003
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