What Time Is Fiesta Bowl?

[Mutt]

yeah i know i can go look it up in the TV listing or ESPN.com but since i'm here i thought i'd ask

i will root for Ohio State, too hard to root for Miami, student athletes my ass.

[Almighty Colin]

Friday. 8 pm ET.

Mutt,

I think there's a perception that Miami just goes out and finds all these really fast and amazingly talented players and that's all there is to it. Miami had probably the best training program in the country. The program is known for increasing the speed and size of their players quite dramatically while they are there. Jeremy Shockey, an ex Cane now playing for the Giants said that the Hurricanes players work a lot harder than players on NFL teams do. One week after winning the National Championship last year, players were out practicing together for the next season. Fact is, Miami players work harder than anyone else - on the gym, on the field, and in the film room - and that is a good part of the reason why they have won 25% of all the championships in the last 20 years and played for a few others. Consider that every year Miami's recruiting class is ranked about #10 in the nation talent-wise. How do they go from #10 in talent to #1? #1 by the standard of national championships and players sent to the NFL. There's a lot of hard work between start and finish.

A recent interview with Miami Linebacker Jonathan Vilma asked him what his opinion of paying college football players is (a hot debate right now). He said that college football players already received pay in the form of a college education and not having to pay back loans after school. Pay for college players? "That's what the NFL is for" he said.

Miami's graduation rate for football players is above the national average - that despite the fact that they have sent more players into the NFL than any other team in college the past 2 decades - many of them having left school early.

It's a shame that once a team in any sport attains amazing success that people start to find reasons for why they don't deserve it. One does not win 34 games in a row )!) without deserving it. Lots of hard work to attain that streak.



Last edited by Colin at Jan 1 2003, 08:22 AM

[Mutt]

i didn't say they weren't amazing, nor that they don't work hard.

the perception IS that they are nothing but a football factory who recruit great athletes without regard to their academic abilities or character.
I don't follow college football very closely so I get this from reading and listening, every time Miami is mentioned always comes with the innuendo that the program is tainted.

As for graduation rates, kinda meaningless unless you know they are taking legitimate courses, how many hours they put in in class, their exams and papers are marked by the same standards regular students are,
........ not saying i know for a fact Miami is a dirty program but that's the way the national sports media paints them.

their record is amazing, can't take that away, but is the playing field even, that is the question.

NCAA athletic programs are like a snowball rolling downhill gathering steam, once a school gets very good, it becomes easier and easier to recruit the best players because kids wanna go with a winner and get on TV alot. So that does explain alot of their continued success. But why all the shots taken at them then? Why does the media have it in for Miami if you are saying they are as clean as anybody else? You don't get the innuendo when people write or talk about Duke basketball?

NCAA athletes from ghettos and very poor families do deserve money, some kind of stipend, not that much but it's not enough just to provide them a room, textbooks and meals. It's not fair to put a kid on a college campus without enough money to get a pizza and beer, and enough money for a couple lapdances at the titty bar if you're not going to allow him to have a part time job to earn his own money. The money those players produce for the schools is huge - nothing wrong with giving a poor kid $75-100 a week. It's silly, Canadian kids who play junior hockey, which is to the NHL what NCAA is to the NFL, those kids get a voucher for a college education for after their junior careers are over at 19 or 20 plus they get a small amount of money for what I'm talking about.



Last edited by Mutt at Jan 1 2003, 07:47 AM

[Almighty Colin]

Mutt,

Lots of people hate the Dallas Cowboys.
Lots of people hate the New York Yankees.
Lots of people hate the Miami Hurricanes.

It's all the same thing. Win a substantial portion of the championships and this attitude tends to arise.

Most reporting on the Hurricanes is that they used to be a team with a thug-attitude, NOT that they have one now. This is a typical article one finds:

(note the comments by Coker which are exactly what you were referring to).

------------

MULKEYTOWN, Ill. (BP)--Seeing the Miami Hurricanes perched atop the college football rankings again this season is about as exhilarating as the stomach flu. It makes me sick.

I’ve never been a Miami fan. In fact, for most of my life, the Hurricanes have been at or near the top of my “most hated sports teams” list.

My dislike of the Hurricanes was always grounded in the fact that the players were some of the biggest thugs in sports –- guys like Michael Irvin who were hot shots on the field and criminals off it. Then there’s Warren Sapp, who, although not a criminal as far as I know, is still a loudmouth. The list could go on and on.

But those were the Miami Hurricanes of the past. Second-year coach Larry Coker is doing his best to clean up a program that for years had one of the worst reputations around. Coker won a national title in his inaugural season last year, and his Hurricanes seemed poised to repeat as champs.

“I feel blessed just to be a head coach, because it’s pretty hard,” Coker said in the Fellowship of Christian Athletes’ Sharing the Victory magazine. “There are not many jobs out there and to get one is an act of God for me. To have it at a place like Miami, where you have the vehicle to have success, is pretty special. Then, on top of that, to bring it all to fruition, to play well and win a national championship, it’s just been a magical year.”

But championships aren’t the most important thing to Coker. He’s more concerned with restoring integrity to a football program that desperately needed it.

“One thing we really stressed was character,” Coker told Sharing the Victory. “We had to find out about the players, not just their grades or their ability to play the game or the times they ran. We also had to talk with their coaches, talk with their parents, get in their homes, talk with their ministers, find out what type of people they are. From that standpoint, if they’re very similar in ability -- you have to have ability, let’s don’t downplay that -- then we’re going to feel strongly for that player with character.”

Coker’s quest for a second national title won’t be easy. In addition to being a bunch of hoodlums in years past, the Hurricanes also had a bad habit of playing weak teams to pad their record. Not so this year.

Miami will face Florida, Florida State, Tennessee, Boston College, Pittsburgh, Syracuse and Virginia Tech this year -- all formidable opponents. If they make it through that schedule unscathed, the Hurricanes will definitely be deserving of championship accolades.

It will still be hard for me to pull for Miami, though. I guess old habits are hard to abandon. But I respect Coker and don’t begrudge him any of his success -- past or future. The changes he’s making to Miami’s program are admirable.
--30--
Tim Ellsworth writes this column from his home in Mulkeytown, Ill. Write to him at bpsports@sbc.net.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Mutt@Jan 1 2003, 08:46 AM
is the playing field even, that is the question.

Of course not. The playing field is NOT even in college football. The best programs get the best players.

Rutgers does not have the same recruiting ability as the University of Miami.
Mississippi St. cannot get the players Alabama does.

This is not a mystery. This is not the NFL. No parity rules in effect. You build a great program with great coaches and get the best players you can. Everyone has the same opportunity but for the most part only the Nebraska's, Oklahoma's, Florida State's, and Miami's will be playing for the National Championship. South Carolina will not. Vanderbilt willl not.

Like I said, Miami usually has about the tenth best recruiting class. Not the best. Somewhere between that tenth best recruiting class and NFL draft day, those players turn into the best class.



Last edited by Colin at Jan 1 2003, 10:04 AM

[voodooman]

Mutt,

Take OSU and the points for a dime.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by voodooman@Jan 1 2003, 10:03 AM
Mutt,

Take OSU and the points for a dime.

I would bet OSU to cover also. Is the spread still 14?

The original spread was only 10.5 I think.

[voodooman]

12.5 colin.

I would still take it.

Go ahead and parlay it for the under. 50.5

Oklahoma is a 6 point fav, this hurts me,
but I would take Wash St. and the points.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by voodooman@Jan 1 2003, 10:22 AM
12.5 colin.

I would still take it.

Go ahead and parlay it for the under. 50.5

Oklahoma is a 6 point fav, this hurts me,
but I would take Wash St. and the points.

Yeah, I like the under 50 also. I wouldn't EVER bet on or against my favorite team in any sport.

Too easy to get stupid.

[voodooman]

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