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Unless I'm looking at the wrong place, AVN didn't even have the list of "official" parties on their site. I thought that was the one of the main reasons for getting a booth and having an "official" party?
All 6 of the Gay Webmaster Bash events were 'official' in that AVN told us we needed to spend $3k for a booth that never got used if thats what you mean.
A shame really, that wasted 3k could have gone towards something worthwhile like giveaways, more food or liquor at the events or, gambling
Originally posted by Peaches@Jan 9 2005, 10:46 PM Unless I'm looking at the wrong place, AVN didn't even have the list of "official" parties on their site. I thought that was the one of the main reasons for getting a booth and having an "official" party?
There is a party schedule Peaches, but it's kinda hard to find. Well, it's not an obvious link anyway.
They did have an "official" list... they printed it in the guide book as well - with an insert of other "official" added at the last minute parties....
The FFN Ball was NOT "official" - however they threatened to send over a couple photographers & a writer as well.... (2 little 2 late?)
The XBiz Awards thing is a different story... I heard a rumor around the show that they were iced from the schedule when their newspaper came out. Not sure if that is true or not but nothing XBiz was posted and usually they get great coverage. Join the club. lol
I think there's something to be said however for having an "unofficial" party... screw all the bullshit... Vegas is a big place and we're all grown-ups (at least on THIS board anyway)...
Sucks for those who paid to exhibit just to have a party - fortunately after this last show I think it's obvious that you don't have to have the support/approval of AVN to do something and have it attended by the masses.
Kath, this has been mentioned over the years, but perhaps a trend is developing here and the "big show" of the year may no longer be the January Internext show. Time will tell, however. The venue (Vegas) is appealing to most, but the host is becoming less popular maybe?
By the way it was good chatting with you at the show. You're doing great work over there at Klixxx.
__________________ I will talk shit about you if I think you wont find out.
Originally posted by Evil Chris@Jan 9 2005, 09:38 PM I'm wondering, because a few of the bigger parties were not listed in any of the Internext schedules... ie. XBiz, Extreme, Player's Ball...
Is this becoming a trend? Why doesn't AVN just give in and acknowledge these parties? So what if the companies in question don't take a booth.
I'm sure the line of thinking goes like this. They put a lot of time, effort, and money to put on the show so why should they support someone that isn't supporting them? Would these companies be having these parties if it weren't for the show going on? I can certainly see people's point in wanting to try and expand the list to make it easier on webmasters and acknowledging them, but from AVN's point of view they would be giving free publicity to companies that want all the benfits of AVN's putting the show together and not help with any of the cost and other stuff that goes along with it.
Originally posted by kath@Jan 10 2005, 03:59 AM I think there's something to be said however for having an "unofficial" party... screw all the bullshit... Vegas is a big place and we're all grown-ups (at least on THIS board anyway)...
Sucks for those who paid to exhibit just to have a party - fortunately after this last show I think it's obvious that you don't have to have the support/approval of AVN to do something and have it attended by the masses.
I have no problems with people doing parties outside the events at all but they shouldn't expect to get free advertising for doing so. Maybe other webmaster events would allow it, but I doubt it. What incentive does ANY event organizer, whether it be AVN and Internext, Cybernet, the Phoenix forum, etc, to recognize companies that want all the benfits of doing the organizing of the event as those people do but without supporting their efforts to organize it. It's a shitload of work to be sure, and you want to support those who will support and help you in your efforts. Those companies would be getting free advertising. Great for them but not great for those who paid to help support the show or the company that put it all together.
The XBiz Awards thing is a different story... I heard a rumor around the show that they were iced from the schedule when their newspaper came out. Not sure if that is true or not but nothing XBiz was posted and usually they get great coverage. Join the club. lol
Sucks for those who paid to exhibit just to have a party - fortunately after this last show I think it's obvious that you don't have to have the support/approval of AVN to do something and have it attended by the masses.
XBiz is NOT being ostracized for having a paper! I, for one, have absolutely no interest in working for Pravda!
And to address your other point about organizing something attended by 'the masses'... Where on earth do you believe those masses would come from if there were no exhibitors and therefore no convention?
__________________
I want your Internext & AVN feedback! - aly@avn.com
Originally posted by Aly_AVN@Jan 10 2005, 03:37 PM People who do this are officially termed 'Leeches' by those who organize trade shows. Seems rather appropriate in my opinion.
I'm just being devil's advocate here Aly, but can it be said that you're a sponsor in good standing one year, and a leech the next year?
__________________ I will talk shit about you if I think you wont find out.
The show promoter IS tired of leeches (even though it is not really fair, I am used to it...... ) I have learned to live with it to a point - but, don't yell at me if you don't get the attendance you wanted..... it is not my job if you are not supporting the show. If you are - you all know that I bust my butt, trying to include your event in press releases, on the website, and the show daily.
The party sponsor believes that their event brings people to the show & therefore they have supported the event. In my case, I have went along with it, if their event has been announced in time to actually maybe help attendance - BUT, the people who decide to put something together at the last minute - have NOT helped bring people to the show! So, their excuse is out the window:-(
If AVN hadn't behaved in their 'holier than thou' porn royalty way since the beginning of the adult internet, perhaps companies wouldn't feel so justified in LEECHING off the masses they've gathered in 1 place.
AVN claims to be a representative of the adult Internet, and yet a big portion of porn BUSINESS PROFESSIONALS stopped paying $250 for badges and 1000's of dollars for booths LONG AGO. AVN placed themselves in a position where they could rip everyone off with overpriced booths, overpriced ads, overpriced promotional opportunities when there weren't ever enough webmasters to justify the rates. Now that the shows are crowded with dickheads and empty booths, AVN is wondering why it went that way?!
Lets call a spade a spade ...
AVN is great for the "Oh my god I touched a pornstar" webmasters of this business, but I don't think there's many webmasters at Oprano who take the magazine, the company or any of its Hollywood wannabe crap seriously.
This business started splitting in 2 a couple of years ago, so lets just accept the future for what it is ... AVN has the quantity, cybernet/klixxx and the 'AVN reject' network around it has the quality & loyalty that AVN lost through bad networking.
I actually enjoyed the "unofficial" parties more than the "official" madhouse, slip the doorman a $20 to get in, stand around going deaf parties....
I actually did more business (or potential business) at dinners and lunches with 5 or 6 people than running around on the show floor (ah, but I should save this for the other thread ;-))
AVN is not a non-profit service for the adult industry, its a company. They want to make money - they protect their clients interests. I don't see any issue with it.
AVN is still "the show" - and they have that brand along side with them.
Do you really want to make a run at AVN's business? Get a budget and schedule a secondary adult webmaster show at the same exact time of Internext
There is a rumour going around, that next Vegas Internext will be combined with the AVN show. As the Internext show is a money losing venture for AVN. I agree that if it wasnt for the Main promoters of the Internext show, there would be no show. Like it or not, they are the Draw that brings in the people.
Originally posted by JFK@Jan 11 2005, 09:21 AM There is a rumour going around, that next Vegas Internext will be combined with the AVN show. As the Internext show is a money losing venture for AVN. I agree that if it wasnt for the Main promoters of the Internext show, there would be no show. Like it or not, they are the Draw that brings in the people.
Bwahahahaha
Someone overheard me talking to Drav, Kath and Meat in the lobby!
__________________
We are putting the bastards of this world on notice; greed and corruption will always be met with "a voice made of ink and rage."
"Never try and be like anyone else" - Hunter S. Thompson
"The truth is the truth no matter how you try and package a lie" - Shellee Hale
Originally posted by Biggy@Jan 11 2005, 05:34 AM
Do you really want to make a run at AVN's business? Get a budget and schedule a secondary adult webmaster show at the same exact time of Internext
Rewind to 6 months ago....
__________________
We are putting the bastards of this world on notice; greed and corruption will always be met with "a voice made of ink and rage."
"Never try and be like anyone else" - Hunter S. Thompson
"The truth is the truth no matter how you try and package a lie" - Shellee Hale
I have to say that there are good points on BOTH sides here. I'm hoping people on both sides are not totally ignoring some of the valid points from "the other side" being espoused here.
There's a lot of conundrums and paradoxes going on here. (Aly, I remember you said that to me yourself.) The biggest being, there is no convention with out the organizers either making a profit or breaking even. (And since no one here is in the non-profit business, even the latter is not enough.) So, for the time and effort and massive coordination required to put on any show, it's only just, fair and necessary for the show coordinators and owners to make a profit. How do they do that? Pretty much from booths, some from advertising.
Now, without booths, it has been said (and I partly agree, partly disagree) there are no shows. Yet booth space continues to go up while ROI continues to drop. Problem.
Not sure what the ultimate solution might be. Possibly increased advertising and other non-yet-tried revenue producers are required. One thing for sure. All trade shows are ignoring the changing industry. That's a fact. Constantly boards such as this are filled, not just this time of year, but all the time, with how affiliates are decreasing, herds are thinning, that networking is more important than booths, that booths are more for newbies, etc. But that is being ignored by the shows. (Ok, maybe ignored isn't correct.) As said, there is no easy soultion, so maybe it's not being ignored (behind the scenes) but so far out in public little if anything has changed to reflect that.
I say, some how, some way the shows do need to respond to, reflect and adapt to the industry changes. Again, I'm sure Aly being brought on board is a part of that awareness at AVN. I know Sharpie is always trying to figure out something new.
What is the answer? If I knew that I'd happily offer it (and probably charge for it too. LOL) Maybe I can point a few directions though. Less money on booths, more money on show program/book advertising is one. Let's say there are no booths. Then charge for giving out flyers or hang banners at events. List the so-called non official parties but charge to do so, and I don't mean a host of empty booths being the answer either. Plus some innovative ideas not yet thought of.
For sure though, booth ROI has plummeted and continues to do so. If shows are going to base booth space on whether there is a convention or not, then little "free" shows will be popping up like rabbits and the big shows will be dinosaurs of the past. That, my friends, is a fact.
Originally posted by cj@Jan 10 2005, 08:54 PM If AVN hadn't behaved in their 'holier than thou' porn royalty way since the beginning of the adult internet, perhaps companies wouldn't feel so justified in LEECHING off the masses they've gathered in 1 place.
AVN claims to be a representative of the adult Internet, and yet a big portion of porn BUSINESS PROFESSIONALS stopped paying $250 for badges and 1000's of dollars for booths LONG AGO. AVN placed themselves in a position where they could rip everyone off with overpriced booths, overpriced ads, overpriced promotional opportunities when there weren't ever enough webmasters to justify the rates. Now that the shows are crowded with dickheads and empty booths, AVN is wondering why it went that way?!
Lets call a spade a spade ...
AVN is great for the "Oh my god I touched a pornstar" webmasters of this business, but I don't think there's many webmasters at Oprano who take the magazine, the company or any of its Hollywood wannabe crap seriously.
This business started splitting in 2 a couple of years ago, so lets just accept the future for what it is ... AVN has the quantity, cybernet/klixxx and the 'AVN reject' network around it has the quality & loyalty that AVN lost through bad networking.
I generally agree... that's why I jumped onboard.
In my opinion the magazine and convention are pretty well put together, so they're relatively solid products, however, AVN has exercised bad customer relations (being diplomatic here) over the years. I figure, having been a client for 6 years I have a better idea of what they need to fix than they do! So far I've been met very warmly in that. It's only been a month so far, but I really see AVNOnline and Internext waking up and realizing they need to change.
Feel free to sit on how they've been in the past, it's deserved, but I personally see an opportunity to shape the show and mag into something we all can use to improve our business. Feel free to send me feedback if you care to... I also understand if you don't.
__________________
I want your Internext & AVN feedback! - aly@avn.com
Originally posted by Dravyk@Jan 11 2005, 12:32 PM I have to say that there are good points on BOTH sides here. I'm hoping people on both sides are not totally ignoring some of the valid points from "the other side" being espoused here.
There's a lot of conundrums and paradoxes going on here. (Aly, I remember you said that to me yourself.) The biggest being, there is no convention with out the organizers either making a profit or breaking even. (And since no one here is in the non-profit business, even the latter is not enough.) So, for the time and effort and massive coordination required to put on any show, it's only just, fair and necessary for the show coordinators and owners to make a profit. How do they do that? Pretty much from booths, some from advertising.
Now, without booths, it has been said (and I partly agree, partly disagree) there are no shows. Yet booth space continues to go up while ROI continues to drop. Problem.
Not sure what the ultimate solution might be. Possibly increased advertising and other non-yet-tried revenue producers are required. One thing for sure. All trade shows are ignoring the changing industry. That's a fact. Constantly boards such as this are filled, not just this time of year, but all the time, with how affiliates are decreasing, herds are thinning, that networking is more important than booths, that booths are more for newbies, etc. But that is being ignored by the shows. (Ok, maybe ignored isn't correct.) As said, there is no easy soultion, so maybe it's not being ignored (behind the scenes) but so far out in public little if anything has changed to reflect that.
I say, some how, some way the shows do need to respond to, reflect and adapt to the industry changes. Again, I'm sure Aly being brought on board is a part of that awareness at AVN. I know Sharpie is always trying to figure out something new.
What is the answer? If I knew that I'd happily offer it (and probably charge for it too. LOL) Maybe I can point a few directions though. Less money on booths, more money on show program/book advertising is one. Let's say there are no booths. Then charge for giving out flyers or hang banners at events. List the so-called non official parties but charge to do so, and I don't mean a host of empty booths being the answer either. Plus some innovative ideas not yet thought of.
For sure though, booth ROI has plummeted and continues to do so. If shows are going to base booth space on whether there is a convention or not, then little "free" shows will be popping up like rabbits and the big shows will be dinosaurs of the past. That, my friends, is a fact.
Thanks Dravyk... great post.
__________________
I want your Internext & AVN feedback! - aly@avn.com
Originally posted by cj@Jan 11 2005, 07:57 PM we made a deal for us to buy his content, talked about a few details and planned to hook up once back from the show. I get home and start following it up, only to be passed onto some customer service chick who knew NOTHING about the special licensing requirements i'd discussed with said marketing rep.
Can't quite figger this person was getting rid of you & that people don't really like you eh?
01-09-2005
earl: CJ 
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