[CWDW]

Wow there's so many good points I think you guys have this subject pretty well covered...but I always have something to add.

Originally Posted by Mediaguy

Get rid of the Bangkok Quarter-Pounders and I say it's a potentially good idea.

ZOMG LOL thanks for that.

Originally Posted by Mediaguy

CWDW:

I don't know that I'd agree with the "actually one and the same" line - that would be hard to claim, stats wise, on the vast preponderence of adult performers...

Yes some people with "bad" or "hard" backgrounds can be led to this work, but not the same as with say stripclubs, which are a lifestyle. Adult actors aren't constantly "doing it" and "getting dirty" on a daily basis. And some of these same "types" end up in regular office jobs where they end up used and abused by higher-ups...

I've known people who shoot for programs featuring very abusive-looking content here in Montreal, and they all know it's basically play-acting, and they love their jobs and go back to them without the need for the money due to whatever child traumas that might lead to needs for abuse, drug dependency and what not...

If that sort of "abuse" were real in the shoots, somebody somewhere would call the cops...

It's all theatre.

I think they are into it and are not going to call anybody about it. I'm not demonizing the "abuse". I'm just saying that you're going to find abused women doing these things in a high percentage, women who's internal guidance system is fucked, and have been conditioned to enjoy weird shit. Please understand that I'm into some weird shit myself so I'm not judging, I'm just saying that unfortunately sex workers of all types are in a very precarious position of having to make decisions and read people and use their intuition for their survival that even the most well-adjusted would have trouble navigating, and unfortunately a lot of these women have "distorted" guidance systems and terrible self-parenting skills. It's hard to "stop the abuse" when that's all you know.

I know all sex workers are not victims of child abuse. But I am willing to bet that a LOT are, or are at least vulnerable. And anyway I'm not saying that all the "abuse" is bad either...I'm just saying that there are a lot of women who HAVE been abused and who are vulnerable to being manipulated into doing things that hurt them. So when they run into the guy who is NOT play-acting they might not know how to run.

Being a twisted person myself I know that the familiar seems safe. But sometimes familiar does not mean safe. That's all.

Originally Posted by Toby

What I think or what the Dworkin's think is irrelevant. The only ones whose opinions matter are the models themselves. If they feel overly coerced, repeatedly, then it's wrong. A contract lawyer would have a field day with that in a contract dispute case.

The solution is for models to inform each other, and the entire industry in extreme or repeat offender cases. It's far easier these days than in the past, where it had to be more or less word of mouth. Had blogs, etc. been as prevalent at the time of Julie's encounter with Max, and had she posted about it, how many models would have refused to work for him, or at least made sure they had the option to get up and walk out to their own car and leave?

Yes.

Originally Posted by rhetorical

Two comments....
As far as models go, I would say that the majority of girls I have shot have a damaged past. One could argue that we all do, but in this case I have noticed a recurring theme of some kind of abuse. I work with my talent for multiple days and have them back to do it again fairly regularly and over the past decade of shooting, I can honestly say that this very common.

Around here, we have a local board where people post looking for work and advice. A lot of girls have been warned off possibly dangerous situations. If not publicly, certainly in private. I have advised many girls of producers that I know, or guys that are just gwc's (guys with cameras), where a potential problem could develop. It isn't perfect but its something.

You are awesome.

Originally Posted by rhetorical

All this freedom shit is well and good until someone loses an eye.....
The internet is an oddball in that it creates that which never existed. Sure you can say there always were extreme fantasies and possibly even experienced by the few that managed to meet like minded people. But it is my instinct that there are a whole lot of fetishes that have been created in the past few years as people push the envelope of extremel. Not for erotic purposes but to make money. And there is a lot of it. I think you have to think about the next generation who have total access to total extreme and wonder if this is really good for a society. And I really don't mean just porn. Any kind of extreme. Jackass is a tame example, but look at the culture it has spawned. Kids dropping batteries on their head from rooftops. Stupid and harmful stuff. So, think about this when you talk about freedom. Do you want a world where extreme is normal? Do you want a society that celebrates and rewards stupidity? And think about this. If you do want this "freedom", do you think your country will have been dumbed and numbed to the point you lose it when China drops that collective battery on your collective heads in the next hundred years?

Yes, we're fucked. But being policed by an overzealous government is not a solution.

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

My dad always sums up personal freedom very succinctly.

"Your right to swing your fist stops at the tip of my nose."

I am going to use that.

And Gonzo- to answer your question? Zero.