[Sin]

CDSmith the example of the Goldie Hawn movie and the parents talking to her like she was an adult and the line "Well, honey, sometimes we have to be big about things" -- Even if it isn't word for word the way it was in the movie, that's not talking to a kid like an adult. That's still talking to them in a rather patronizing manner (I know I picked up on it when I was a kid, when a parent talked TO me vs when a parent talked AT me).

I also don't think that you can put an age restriction on when spanking either should or shouldn't be used, kids are learning well past the age of 4, for example I got a spanking when I was in 3rd grade because I was playing on the playground and there was a little boy who gave me the finger pretty much every day. I had no idea what it meant... it meant nothing to me, but I figured it must be an insult of some kind, so one night when my dad wouldn't give me something I wanted, I gave him the finger. And yes, I got a spanking. And no, I'm not screwed up for life. I totally deserved it. I laugh about it now because its actually a rather fond memory, despite the spanking.

Some kids are going to need harsher discipline (I was one of them, I was spanked as a child and as an adult I am fully aware that I was in complete deservence of each & every one of them. Didn't happen often, but they worked). I also got my mouth washed out with soap once when I was in something like Grade 6 for using racist terms to insult my sister. That was also well deserved. I didn't die, I'm not traumatized for life from it, I called her a "dirty indian" and the irony is that I am half native myself. I deserved that too. Once again, effective.

Sometimes kids screaming in stores can be useful... I'll use myself as an example again; when I was about 2 or 3 yrs old my mom couldn't find my dad in a huge department store down in the states (we'd gone down there to visit his cousin) and we'd been looking for a while, so finally she asked me to call for him. (I had/have quite a set of lungs on me) So I did. Loudly. At the top of my lungs, I screamed DAAAAAAAAAAAAAADDDDDDDDDDDDDDYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY YYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sure these days something like that would have security trying to arrest my mom for child abduction or something,... a shame, because it too was effective lol. Didn't take my dad long at all to come running.

The whole ...concept of "bad" parents has really bothered me since about 4 yrs ago when I was housemother to a bunch of troubled kids. One of these kids lived on the street, under a bush, by the mall. When the weather got too cold, or when he got too hungry, or if it was raining, or whatever... he was welcome to stay with us. One day he came grocery shopping with me & my "son" (who is all of 3 yrs younger than me but still phones me on Mother's Day) ...and we ran into this first kid's real mom. She stopped us in the aisle of the grocery store, and right in front of him informed me that I should not talk to him, or associate with him in any way, that he was no good, would lie to me, steal from me, that he would never amount to anything in life, on & on & on. I was appalled, to be quite honest. I also have very little doubt in my mind that SHE is a large part of the reason he treats her the way he does. By the time I knew him it was ...a little too late and he did end up going to jail. He never lied to me, or stole from me, or broke anything, I didn't have to drill rules into his head about "When you're under my roof you will...." --He simply knew. He knew without being told that it was my house, my things, and that he was priviledged to be there & should behave accordingly. He got out of jail, got a job, last time I saw him he was working & living on his own & doing great.

Sidenote: I need a mental break --looked over to my left and holy crap that's a LOT of Xbox controllers... LOL Seven... wow.

Another girl I know who is will be 16 in spring, was I suppose what we'd call a latchkey kid. I suppose come to think of it she still is. When I met her she had just turned 11 and she took care of getting her own dinner, her own breakfast, her own lunch, getting to school, getting home from school, doing the house chores, etc etc. She was the daughter of my landlady who later didn't bother to take care of her bills and the bank repossessed the house & we all had to move. Then she was my roommate (horrible mistake lol) --There would be HUGE fights when this woman would decide one morning that she was going to play "mom" and "take charge." This girl would not & still does not listen to a damn thing her mother says. And why should she? I could get her to do chores no problem, I'd say "I'm going to wash the dishes, can you dry them please?" and she'd do it. Biggest difference I noticed between her mother's tactics & mine was her mom would tell & I would ask. That was quite a few years ago, shortly after I moved out her mom was diagnosed with lung cancer, quit her job, went on welfare, and is now apparently addicted to Meth. She also kicked her daughter out of the house & the girl is now living with her boyfriend & his family. I'm pretty confident she'll be fine for the most part, she's got a good head on her shoulders & she knows how to reach me.

My "son" was kicked out his dad's house, his mom had left him when he was quite a bit younger, but she let him crash on her couch. Instead of bothering to do anything to accommodate him he was treated pretty much like an unwelcome guest. When I got back from Australia we saw him in town & invited him in & he didn't leave for 8 months... We fed him, clothed him, sheltered him, took him to the hospital twice (His mom never showed up for either trip even though the hospital phoned her both times) ...I made him phone her regularly too so she knew where he was, but after a while gave up because it was obvious she was just happy he wasn't her "burden" anymore.

Enough story telling, my point is that kids are rarely the problem & it isnt' the kids that I have the problem with. I'm not going to give nasty looks at parents in stores who have kids throwing fits, but the woman with the infant that was only a few months old, who was more concerned with her christmas shopping than her baby, pissed me off.