Quote:
Originally posted by homegrownmof@Dec 8 2003, 02:59 PM
Thanks for the response RedEye. Definitely one of the more informative threads out there.
What about this scenario:
You say "it is forbidden to run transactions for a third party through an aggregate merchant account".
What if company A loses its merchant accounts, it goes to company B and says "hey, run my transactions and I'll make a side deal to give you a small percentage on the back end".
Thus it looks like the site(s) of Company A are now under the "ownership" of company B. Yet they are really just under the "processing umbrella" of company B.
I guess neither Visa nor the acquiring banks can really police the "aggregating of 3rd party transactions".even if they track the ownership of each individual url.
|
1. About listing Your sites under somebody's else company.
Well in my understanding it works the following way:
If I meet with You in a nice bar then change WHOIS info of all my domains to Your company name and put Your company name under all of my sites I guess there is no way anyone can prohibit me using Your merchant account for my sites for a fee to You.
Because virtually there is no real way to prove that my sites do not belong to You for an acquiring bank or visa. Actually nobody can do it I think unless we both go under criminal investigations for something else where our private financial information will be disclosed.
The problem is that if I do this stuff to this extent legally they belong to You as well.
So what happens is that You may wake up in the morning, talk to Your wife for a minute or two and then suddenly have this bright idea that a new Porsche purchased on my money will look ouch! so nice next to Your house and viola...I cant do anything legally.
In case of Ibill for example, for the court it doesnt matter what Ibill violates.
If there is a contract between me and Ibill, Ibill has to perform that contract. Technically even if a third party billing company has been not payed by it's acquirer the clients are supposed to get payed by law anyway.
For example.
We (RED & Partners B.V.) are going to issue an official complaint in court against Ginix soon somewhere in USA
, in 1 week I think from now, and our lawyers have been preparing it for the last couple of monthes. Ginix bank - Manufacturers Bank , has withhold their moneys so they didnt pay us, we are forced to go to court. Although we are not idiots who are trying to get our money from a company who didnt get it. Ginix used to pay once per month, I havent heard as of yet about a single acquirer with monthly payments , especially in relation to PSPs, however Ginix claims the bank froze the whole month turnover, which is bullshit of course.
We had a good experience before with these things , although of course You never know the future, but a year and a half ago we almost started a court case against EBS AG in Germany which has withhold 500 000 euros of several resellers including us for the usage of their dialers.
By the way the funnies stuff is that according to my info VISA shares similar rules and ideas towards acquirers. Acquirers have a very vague rule from VISA which can be understood in so many ways that they are liable to a certain extent for the payout for clients of a PSP.
Never heard that any othem gave a shit though which doesnt make me suprised at all in these dangerous times.
However most of the acquiring banks prefer to payout directly even working with PSPs which is a bit of an extra danger to them cause it's simplier to send money to the PSP and thus the PSP will always be held by their balls and will definetely perform more control over it's clients.
Back to the subject about listing Your sites under somebodys else company. I beleive that overall this is the easiest and safest way to process for smaller sites. However I think that it must be done in a REAL partnership way - i.e. share much more things than just processing. Share employees, content, ideas and promotion. Really merge. Than it will work and I have a feeling a lot of smaller companies will do it this way sooner or later.
2. About 3D Secure. We havent worked with it yet, so I have no idea.
However I think that if You build a fake webshop collecting 3D passwords
it is not THAT dangerous to the overall situation. Fake shops now are not that dangerous.
Let me explain.
A very simple question - who's gonna buy?
The majority of stolen cards appear from existing shops or billing companies as well which were hacked and their base stolen.
Just as with CVV/CVC the 3D secure pass is forbidden to keep anywhere by PSPs or websites - it passed straight away to bank and back.
And I expect the technology and the control of it is better than with CVVs which are being kept by most merchants in breach with the rules because otherwise it's impossible to run rebills on Your new merchant account when Your old one is fucked.
That's how hackers get them I think.
If You build a fake webshop to get a lot of cards You need a SHITLOAD of promotion. Otherwise You get no buyers. And if You do make a lot of promotion You get noticed fast.
That's why hackers prefer existing shops I beleive.
Although of course there will be chargebacks. It's just when everything possible has been done to protect the cardholder if he once pays that chargeback himself may be he finally will fucking care where he shows his card? Dont You think so?