[gonzo]

Originally posted by Carrie@Oct 21 2003, 12:09 PM
It's not about community, it's about money and how close the issue is to you.

As I told you on GFY and Vick mentioned above, people aren't making the money they used to. The majority of webmasters are clearing a few hundred bucks a month, I know at least 5 off the top of my head that have not made a sale in a YEAR.
So now they're told to donate - but two problems: 1) they don't have the money to donate, and 2) there's 2 places to donate, which should they donate to? (I am not asking for a response on this, just presenting the COMMON webmaster's point of view.)

As for how close the issue is to you... There are far more affiliates in this game than there are site owners and program owners. Those affiliates won't be threatened by Acacia, their sponsors will - so they don't see it as their fight. If one of their sponsors goes down, they'll simply change sponsors.

Many site owners and program owners won't do anything until the packet arrives at their door. It's like donating to the Cancer Fund... everyone likes to talk nice about how they wish cancer were eradicated, but no one gets involved in the fight until their wife or mom dies of cancer. Sad but true.

The "bullying" or "shaming" tactic used to get people to donate simply won't work. Bullying puts people on the defensive, and if you think anyone is going to be shamed into anything in this industry well, I've got a bridge in the desert to sell you. This is already one of the most shameful businesses a person can be involved in, so it takes quite a lot more than "hey you haven't donated yet" to get your fellow pornographers to perk up their ears.

Being part of Zmaster and On The Ropes I can only imagine what you've seen for yourself and certainly what you've heard from Lee Noga. But honestly what I am seeing from you is an "out of touch with how things are now" mindset. Back in '98 etc. there were a large group of webmasters, all of them were making good money, and they needed each other if for nothing more than comraderie.

Nowadays there are hundreds of thousands of webmasters, with over 125 different webmaster resources to visit. The majority are *not* making significant money. None of them "needs" any of the others, as there are full tutorials and free everything from content to hosting to fucking pre-built galleries and free sites available for them. They don't even HAVE TO WORK OR BUILD ANYTHING... why the hell should they care a bit about this business?? They've got NOTHING invested in it - not even the time it takes to build a custom full-page ad!! The industry has gone from being full of pioneers to being full of lazy lemmings who sit on their whiny asses and demand to be given everything for their precious 30 hits per WEEK of traffic. And the idiot sponsors are catering to these people, because 200 webmasters with 30 hits a week is 600 hits more than they'd have otherwise, and getting traffic is a dog-eat-dog world these days.

You keep on and keep on asking the question "why aren't more people getting involved" - there's your answer.

I think your efforts would be better spent in asking for donations of signature spots to promote the effort than trying to shame folks into donating - more people can afford that, at least. And focus the real effort on reaching the small site owners rather than the beer-money webmasters who have little investment and even less profit.

I'm sorry if this comes across harsh, but I am just tired of seeing you walking around with those rose-colored glasses on and seemingly no concept of what it's really like out here these days, repeating the same question over and over without catching on to reality.

Ah yes....I have exorcised the old Netpond/Beta Brigade from you Carrie.

However as much as I believe in what Far L is doing...I dont know the Fight the Patent guy...so Id have to give my mon-ay to Spike and Far L.

Im going to have to agree with Carrie though. Your better off telling these guys why they are going to be next than trying the shaming or misleading bullshit. Outside of Fight The Patent ...Ive never heard of you -- and the first I hear is youve got your hand out.

Albiet its a good cause its a rough streach. Just the nature of this case has us all edgy. Weve got the self proclaimed creator of the adult interenst selling out...then Ken comes over and drops a press release on us trying to make us think its all being settle to protect us as he pisses down our backs. Point is...lots of folks trying to get theirs at the expense of others.
And PLEASE dont bring Lee into this arguement. I got a few old issues of Boardwatch magazine to sell you...

And Carrie I love you but donating a signature line isnt going to do DICK for this cause either.

Right now this issue does not directly impact me. So I havent bothered with any of the issues. However I have eseveral projects that Im praying to the Jettis Jesus to get Visa to bless them...then it will be a large concern.

Far -L will tell you...we saw this shit back in the dial up days when the mighty Compuserve saw this growing industry of Bulletin Board owners starting to erode the mighty market share. So they went after these owners over the H&R Block patent that they owned which pertained to the GIF format. Im sure you can see where that went by looking at graphics all around.

SEA however went out and sucessfully sued a software programmer called Phil Katz. They won and Phil had to turn over his newest compression software and wasnt able to pak or arc anymore files. The BBS community banded together and Phil went back to his mommas kitchen and created a faster tighter compression scheme which is called ZIP. The community pre bought this software to help him out and SEA looked like idiots for picking a fight with the little guy.

Dont give me this cry out that the independants arent able or willing to help out. Instead give us reasons as to why. Right now on the surface I see you repesenting a number of companies thqat have made HUGE cash over the years. Some of these little guys are looking up and wondering why they should contribute anythiong to help them out.

If you want to get pitty about it...I wonder if we examined the list ...how many of those companies do we see that are present or past sponsors of Oprano?

This is business dude. Dont give us a bunch of fucking lawyer speak. Maybe FTP and these enjoined companies need to drop in here and give us all a reason to join the fight. It worked for Phil Katz...