I was going to answer, but it was getting really really long winded... and just seemed like beating the dead horse...
So, anyone else want to take up the cause...lol
For now I am done... tired, depressed, need to get some programming done.....
Ok, but now I see that there are additional posts.....
So I will answer the last JR post before I go to work....
JR Posted:
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i guess i dont understand what the "disclaimer" is and what you feel the "test" is.
i dont think that you can sell "illegal paraphenlia"
"illegal paraphenlia" is defined in the Controlled Substances Act
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The controlled subatance act defines illegal paraphenelia as:
(d) ''Drug paraphernalia'' defined
The term ''drug paraphernalia'' means any equipment, product, or material of any kind which is primarily intended or designed for use in manufacturing, compounding, converting, concealing, producing, processing, preparing, injecting, ingesting, inhaling, or otherwise introducing into the human body a controlled substance, possession of which is unlawful under this subchapter. It includes items primarily intended or designed for use in ingesting, inhaling, or otherwise introducing marijuana, (FOOTNOTE 1) cocaine, hashish, hashish oil, PCP, or amphetamines into the human body, such as - (FOOTNOTE 1) So in original. Probably should be ''marihuana,''.
(1) metal, wooden, acrylic, glass, stone, plastic, or ceramic pipes with or without screens, permanent screens, hashish heads, or punctured metal bowls;
(2) water pipes;
(3) carburetion tubes and devices;
(4) smoking and carburetion masks;
(5) roach clips: meaning objects used to hold burning material, such as a marihuana cigarette, that has become too small or too short to be held in the hand;
(6) miniature spoons with level capacities of one-tenth cubic centimeter or less;
(7) chamber pipes;
(8) carburetor pipes;
(9) electric pipes;
(10) air-driven pipes;
(11) chillums;
(12) bongs;
(13) ice pipes or chillers;
(14) wired cigarette papers; or
(15) cocaine freebase kits.
(e) Matters considered in determination of what constitutes drug paraphernalia
In determining whether an item constitutes drug paraphernalia, in addition to all other logically relevant factors, the following may be considered:
(1) instructions, oral or written, provided with the item concerning its use;
(2) descriptive materials accompanying the item which explain or depict its use;
(3) national and local advertising concerning its use;
(4) the manner in which the item is displayed for sale;
(5) whether the owner, or anyone in control of the item, is a legitimate supplier of like or related items to the community, such as a licensed distributor or dealer of tobacco products;
(6) direct or circumstantial evidence of the ratio of sales of the item(s) to the total sales of the business enterprise;
(7) the existence and scope of legitimate uses of the item in the community; and
(8) expert testimony concerning its use.
(f) Exemptions
This section shall not apply to -
(1) any person authorized by local, State, or Federal law to manufacture, possess, or distribute such items; or
(2) any item that, in the normal lawful course of business, is imported, exported, transported, or sold through the mail or by any other means, and traditionally intended for use with tobacco products, including any pipe, paper, or accessory
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So, this act does not really spell out that an item is legal or illegal... in fact it states:
(e) Matters considered in determination of what constitutes drug paraphernalia
In determining whether an item constitutes drug paraphernalia, in addition to all other logically relevant factors, the following may be considered:
So, just because it is an item on their list does not make it paraphenelia...
and they further exempt:
(f) Exemptions
This section shall not apply to -
(1) any person authorized by local, State, or Federal law to manufacture, possess, or distribute such items; or
(2) any item that, in the normal lawful course of business, is imported, exported, transported, or sold through the mail or by any other means, and traditionally intended for use with tobacco products, including any pipe, paper, or accessory
So, if a tobacco shop sells a pipe, it is l;egal but If I sell a pipe, it may be considered illegal....
That brings intent into it... How you intend the product to be used or the intent of the buyer of the product...
Like Dr Guile posted after you... It should be how the product is USED that should define the crime, not the product itself.....
By the way, JR, you stated earlier....
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a "cocaine free-base" kit is CLEARLY illegal no matter how you personally define it and how you try to twist, stretch and distort the definitions as written in the Controlled Substances
Act.
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From my research earlier today, it would seem thatr afreebase cocaine kit would possibly containe...
Ether
Ammonia
A glass Plate or Mirror
A bottle
All of these are totally legal; products that when packaged together are called a freebase cocaine kit.... So, if I happen to have these products in my house, in different cabinets etc... They are legal. If I happen to put them all together in a box, they are illegal....... It is an attempt to discern my intent of possesing the products... That is basically thought police type stuff....
You also state:
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i have to expect that it is reasonable that if i am going to sell bongs, triple beam scales and various gadgets to hide the stash to kids
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Where does KIDS come into this.... other than an attempt to siderail the real argument as to whether the feds should be wasting their time and energy on going after totally legal products based upon a somewhat cloudy definition
You also state:
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and are very happy to start debating various government conspiracy theories without knowing or discussing the facts of the case.
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I never stated that there ever was a "government conspiracy" and I do not maintain that not... I do maintain a serious case of "government stupidity" exists....
As to the facts of the case, you know no more than I do.... I know the facts as presented by the media, whether right or wrong....
I will not stand there and say the government is right until proven wrong, as you seem to. They have proven themselves wrong too many times in the past for me to just outright swallow everything they say as fact.......
Now, I have to get back to work
