steroids or no steroids, the guy is the greatest player EVER.

observe his play this year, he never ceases to amaze me.

and he will finish his career as the homerun king.

Bonds was good but he is no Mickey Mantle

:rokk:

Pete rose
Dave concepcion

Babe ruth

Dave Concepción????


What about Ty Cobb?
Ted Williams?
Ruth could pitch and hit and played his first few years in the dead ball era

As much as I'm not a baseball fan I don't know how to measure players from different era's?

What about Bob Gibson?
Walter Johnson?
Jim Palmer?
Whitey Ford?
Cy Young?


Also I think another mark of a great player is stepping up in the post season and carrying or at least leading your team to a ring.
Think Reggie Jackson - Mr. October


Bonds is great, barring injury will most likely hit over 800 home runs and will be a first ballot hall of famer
Best to ever play? I don't know how to measure that

Bonds ruined his chance to be best when he cheated, he will always be tied to steriods.

You cannot compare the past 8 years to rest of baseball. The players AND balls are juiced!

How many rings does Bonds have?

but he's still an asshole.

baseball is a team sport - one guy cannot carry his team to victory on his own. The guy hits above .300, always is near the top with homeruns, whilst hardly being thrown to. This year - watch his swing, watch his at bats, he swats the ball like me and you swat flies. He tells the media he doesn't like extra inning games, and then goes on to hit numerous walk-off shots. I never saw mickey, babe, ty cobb play - but if they could hit the ball like barry hits it today (which i somewhat doubt due to the way sports evolve), then they would fully live up to their reputations.

What I see in Barry Bonds, I do not think will be seen again in my lifetime, I can only hope - and this is coming from a Yankees fan!

btw Mike - how you been, haven't seen you around lately, too bad we couldn't meet up in NO for mardi gras.

You know, I started to reply with a full and unmitigated "Bullshit" - and then I realized that my reaction is based on the fact that I wouldn't piss on the cocksucker if he were on fire, and had nothing to do with his skills as a player.

The whining about cheaters is kind of funny ... for example, if you ran every pitcher out of the Hall of Fame who was skilled with a (spitball, scuffed ball, cut ball) "trick" pitch, the Hall couldn't field a decent pitching staff.

You can't compare players between eras. What would a Cobb or a Ruth or a Hornsby or a Muscial do under the training routines of today? Can you imagine the records of Dizzy Dean, Gibson or a Kofax or a Marischal if they were only expected to pitch 6?

If baseball before the 50s was played under the same social standards as today, how many of the current members of the Hall of Fame would be honorable mentions - because some of the best teams and players in the country are folks people have to visit an honorary section to learn about.

How would Barry Bonds have faired when his trip between the East and "the West" (St. Louis) took longer than his flight between NY & the west coast today? How well would the prissy little "injured reserve because of a hangnail" players of today have faired playing back-to-back double-headers in Washington or St. Louis in August?

Barry Bonds is a great player - no doubt about it. That he could be considered the best player of his era says more about the era than about him, IMHO.

BTW ... if there were a single match up I could pick for Bonds it would be one at-bat against Bob Gibson, only to see what would happen to Bonds when he charged the mound the second time the pitch was aimed at his fugly head.

Any fans of Ken Burns' "Baseball"? What a great series.

no evidence that he cheated. he testified in front of a grand jury. you believe everything the sports media shoves down your throat?:)

have it on dvd. great stuff

i cant believe nobody has mentioned Joe Jackson, Willie Mayes, jackie robinson...

have it on dvd. great stuff [/b][/quote]
I figured you did.

I figured you did. [/b][/quote]
you talkin shit?:)

I met Willie Mays as a ten year old kid ... a personal encounter with [diety]itsownself accompanying the Queen of England and the President of the United States would have paled by comparison.

My grandfather had opinions on race that would make a Klansman blush - but one did NOT talk badly about Jackie Robinson around him. Besides Robinson, the only other National Leaguer that my grandfather had any use for was Stan Muscial*, although he was convinced that Muscial's outrageous salary demands were going to ruin the game.

My grandfather was also convinced that the entire city of Baltimore was occupied by thieving bastards who stole the Browns from him personally.

* Muscial was the first National Leaguer to make over $100,000. That's a season, not a game.

yeah and there was also a stink when sandy koufax broke the salary record. kinda funny in retrospect, even accounting for inflation and expansion of the game, still the bargain of a lifetime:)

Dave Concepcion is a stretch, even though he holds many records for an infielder. There were a lot of legends on that Big Red Machine. Ive met Joe Morgan, actually had a sit down conersation with him. Talk about a brilliant baseball mind.

I would have to put Barry Larkin way above Davey C, even on the best Reds ever list. 20 years with a career BA of .297, plus outside of ozzie smith, the best shortstop career.


Nobody mentioned Tony Gwynn? Orlando Cepeda? Mike Schmidt? Don Mattingly?

even for now.. bonds the best EVER? i think derek jeter is an all around better ballplayer than he is, jeter is a throwback. Andruw Jones is a phenominal player.

Dave Concepcion is a stretch, even though he holds many records for an infielder. There were a lot of legends on that Big Red Machine. Ive met Joe Morgan, actually had a sit down conersation with him. Talk about a brilliant baseball mind.

I would have to put Barry Larkin way above Davey C, even on the best Reds ever list. 20 years with a career BA of .297, plus outside of ozzie smith, the best shortstop career.


Nobody mentioned Tony Gwynn? Orlando Cepeda? Mike Schmidt? Don Mattingly?

even for now.. bonds the best EVER? i think derek jeter is an all around better ballplayer than he is, jeter is a throwback. Andruw Jones is a phenominal player. [/b][/quote]
Jeter better than Bonds?

not in this world...

and thats coming from a yankees fan.

Jeter is great, plays with a lot of heart, is a team leader, but his skills, especially with the bat, aren't even close to Bonds.

Baring any injuries, make room on that list for Vladimir Guerrero....

Great on defense (a cannon for an arm), great base runner, great natural hitter (.320+ carrer average, went 39hr-44sb two years ago...)

agreed, but he doesn't have the exclamation point Barry has, and I believe Barry has been doing it longer. None the less, Vlad is a great ball player, someone who I would love to be in a Yankees uniform, who goes out there and does his job well.