Industry wide, what are the biggest mistakes this industry has made.

I would say one of the biggest was when we started giving everything away for Free

Free Content, Free Hosting, I am surprised webmasters are not asking people to generate traffic for them as well.

Along the same lines - the absolute GLUT of free content out there.

What are some others ? Also can they be "undone" ?

Luke Ford?

I'll just quote Serge. In my opinion this was his greatest quote ever and he's had some pretty good ones over the years. New webmasters make this mistake all the time and it kills them.

"Don't confuse a good business with being good in business" - Serge

""Treat everyday as the last day you'll be in this business"" - serge



























one day you'll be right too ;-))

Industry made no mistakes...there is no "industry".

Everything what you percieve as "industry mistake" was an achievement by indivuduals who ripped the rewards, FAST, lots of it,
and left those who haven't jumped on the train of their "mistakes" cold,
and with scratching their heads WHY they couldn't do it and now feel victims of..."industry mistakes"
;-)))

..and I'll debate ANYBODY on the issue 'till the cows go home.

Nick, I recognize this quote better than the one Colin attributes to me,
Colin's quote sounds more like...Webfather
;-))

.and YES, I did exactly as I preached, Baruh Hashem, 'cuz one day I was right
;-))))

IMHO..

The skills used in the "golden era" of the adult biz , is now best used elsewhere.




I always used to say if I could make more money selling widgets online than porn , I'd be selling widgets.

errr anyone interested in some widgets?


;-)))

That's a good pair.

"Treat everyday as the last day you'll be in this business" - Serge
"Don't confuse a good business with being good in business" - Serge

- Unethical rebilling and slamming surfers credit cards.....thanks Xpix
- Dialers dropping net connections and dialing out to Bumfucked,Egypt and charging unsuspecting surfers by the minute

Its been argued over and over I still think that those examples coupled with the PT Barnum attitude toward surfers has stagnated the business. Plus we've totally moved into fuck the affiliate at all costs era as well.

If your running a paysite treat the surfer as a customer because thats what they are and if you want business partners dont rip them off when its time to pay out.

You've seen the force of Visa fucking up the billing part of this industry...now Microsoft has stuck its nose in targetting spammers...spam hosters and eliminating the popup with a service pack. In MOST cases the PPS business model is history for paying out webmasters.

As with any new business revelation the culling of the herd is in full swing.

I love it. Im back on track to make more money than I did last time. And Ill note that I never was an Xpix affiliate or used a dialer.

One caveat....to all you drug pushers....
If you advertise a pill at a low price.... at least include the fucking "consultation fee" in the price instead of a detailed invoice after youve charged the card. After Ive waited on em to show up for 3 weeks chances are a surfer will cancel that order after 2 IF he dont cancel when getting pounded up the ass for an extra Cnote.

In all seriousness now thats actually a good question however, IMHO its to late to even consider doing anything about it, especially given the state of the industry today.

Where to start, board whores, FHG's, traffic brokers, high payouts, the list really does go on and on.

I wrote a brief (lol) article along the same lines as the basis of your question several month ago Here and i honestly do think as of right now that for the most part, we have done this to ourselves.

It seems the industry is riddled with nothing more than teenage kids looking to get their jollies from a slew of free porn and drug, liquor [insert any other vice or illegal activity here] at the shows which in turn, only escalates the problem further.

[spam]
Thats actually one of the reasons we are holding the Gay Webmaster Bash in Vegas, to show that a good time can be had by all and that business can actually get done, if the people there want it to be[/spam]

I think we are going to have to wait until even more drastic changes are forced upon us by the government before we start to see anything, especially the proliferation of free porn get changed and even then, if the government does regulate 'porn' it will only drive the suppliers of the free stuff offshore.

As i say, everything mentioned above has definately become the 'norm' in the industry, especially when in the view of the general webmaster populous at the shows, hell even im guilty of playing it up.

The one good thing about this though is that when you see a group of individuals standing on a walkway oggling a group of scatily clad women, you know not to do business with them as they are the ones who only want the free porn, liqor, drugs, food etc.

I know speaking from my own experience there was only one event that both Gary and I had planned to spend our full time at and, we did, the others we just showed up invited those we wanted to speak to out to dinner and took the 'real' business away from the dregs.

Just my $0.02 on the matter i could be completely off base here [shrug]

I disagree. Webfather uses metaphors. Serge uses word-play.

Maybe you recognize it this way ...

Don't confuse a good busines with beeing good in business

Oh, and this is from about 1998 or so.

:-P

Gonzo..

Especially once Yahoo switch over to their 'search result filtering' technology which will allow users of their engine to automatically remove certain types of 'site' (read as porn) from their search results.

I resemble all those remarks!!!! LOL



sorry gonzo...the money was on the table.

No one wanted it , so we took it.

You should have grabbed some :)



;-)))

Gonzo..

Especially once Yahoo switch over to their 'search result filtering' technology which will allow users of their engine to automatically remove certain types of 'site' (read as porn) from their search results. [/b][/quote]
I leave Search Engine work to the pros. If your building your site to be optimized to be spidered by them it could be the wrong approach.

Im happy managing kennels at this point in time.

I disagree. Webfather uses metaphors. Serge uses word-play.

Maybe you recognize it this way ...

Don't confuse a good busines with beeing good in business

Oh, and this is from about 1998 or so.

:-P [/b][/quote]
Cloin,
I think you are right, I recognize what "Miami Voter" posted on Netpond in 2001
;-)))

I resemble all those remarks!!!! LOL



sorry gonzo...the money was on the table.

No one wanted it , so we took it.

You should have grabbed some :)



;-))) [/b][/quote]
I did take some.
I just didnt take as much as you did and the way you did it. No judgement call here though....its just not my style.

Ive been told I am too "straight" for my own good. This is true. I think it has something to do with being raised in the South. There are still certain things that I wont do as it results in months of insomnia.

I can tell you though... there are seveal folks well below the radar both in adult and mainstream that have been making good cash consistantly the entire time. They dont swim in the same pools as we do and in my case they invested the cash better than I did.

And before someone goes off on how can I associate with Nick and Serge....remember I just said its not my style. I can and do admire how they both got to where they are now. There are lots of lessons one can learn just by watching.

from an exboss of mine back in '91 just before his company got taken down by the State of Kansas in what was then (and might still be) the largest civil settlement in their history: (for background, 600 licenses had been sold at a cost of about 2K a license, so about 1.2m had been collected across a year)

"If I had known that we were'nt going to be able to finish it....
I would have sold twice as many"

ok...confession....

Back in the day ( tremling hands and hitching his trousers with the white belt on it , up)

I LOVED the moral majority. Back then publicly , I was , would you believe it , known as honest and very nice. (spits)


Everyone was saying don't do this , don't do that...and people didn't!!!!!

Was it against the law? Nope.

People just didn't do it.

So eventually I thought...why the fuck am I listening to the mores of pornographers....fuck 'em.

I'll do anything that ain't illegal.

:pearl:

We should have a black peal for that quote!

Um, what's wrong with Nick and Serge ?

Nick and Serge are two of my favorite folks in this biz. I personally cannot come up with the names of anyone believable that say they were ripped off by either of these two. If I was doing any business of consequence in this biz I would most certainly want one or both of them involved from at least a consultation point, if not an active partner.

boards :awinky:

Correction...

GFY $0.02

lol , did that too....


ok , I've realised the entire woes of the web are laid squarely on me and serge.


and I for one don't give a fuck LOL

the move from per minute phone billing via audio-text

On line porn should have been per minute via phone billing from start for as long as the model would have held up
Then moved to a CC billing system, preferably a token style system
Buy 30 tokens via CC get however many minutes


You know not to get me started on free porn

The barriers to entry were MUCH TOO LOW from the beginning and still are

All the (free) help to newbies in the early going 1996-2000 (I don't need to hear about sheep or penguins)

Allowing those with no business acumen to become part of the business (see above)


Take all the above out and we wouldn't face all the challenges we do today


and I personally am the dumbest person in the business
Had all the same opportunities that everyone else did, many made the $ and got out and here I still am

But to those who blew all their money on dope, big parties and hookers and now boo hoo
At least I blew my money on travel, clothes, cars, a home, my ex-wife, toys, dinners and had a great time - and still have a little to show for it


Edit to add - Processors (3rd party or self) not making long term agreements with Visa

I am not sure what you meant, but I do not feel "victem" to anything.

I am quite happy where I have landed.

However, there were a LOT of mistakes that cost EVERYONE in the industry money.

I have never worried about anything that is given away for free. If it were really that good people would be paying for it or it's just a promotion.

The first few sponsors who gave away free content made money, as did the affiliates that got it. But serioosly how good can it be if after two years an affiliate is only making $100 a month.

I read the boards and the general opinion I see id those getting it for fee are struggling and I have webmasters buying week in and week out.

Also "Free Content" on the Internet. Another complaint from people who do not have a site good enough to compete at $1 a day against sites that have a complete mish mash of styles, niches, quality, size, pop ups, spyware and dial downloads.

If you can't sell porn to jerk off to for hours and hours for $1 a day, please shut the door as you leave. Likewise if you think you can walk into this business with no money and think you are going to get rich at it.

Overconfidence.

Fast greed. -- Greed is good; the folks wanting it all "in a day" have causes 99% of the problems for the rest.

Not being an industry, not working for the collective interest. -- (while still persuing individual interests.) Visa, government, early Acacia threats, the next patent ... like picking off a flock of geese one by one.

I don't care much about industry mistakes

my own mistakes, I care about
being too nice when starting out
not getting help with my "issues" before they got completely out of hand and destroyed a couple relationships

I think trials were a problem...when they came out, of course, they were a huge profit center, but they've become a problem now....it's become a "get it as cheap as you can" mentality amongst surfers....

come think of it,
yes, there was ONE mistake which costed money,
not to the industry,
AS THRE IS NO INDUSTRY,
but rather to those who made the mistake of...teaching others what they did right.
Remember Spanker?

we ALL made similar mistakes, I know I did...
;-)))

I know I've been around too long when I know what your answers and the examples used will be hours before you post them.

All still true, of course.

come think of it,
yes, there was ONE mistake which costed money,
not to the industry,
AS THRE IS NO INDUSTRY,
but rather to those who made the mistake of...teaching others what they did right.
Remember Spanker?

we ALL made similar mistakes, I know I did...
;-))) [/b][/quote]
tell me about it :rolleyes:

http://www.sssh.com - my dream site, made by a company who had the resources I always dreamed of ...

but I've learnt that if you are only dreaming of something, you can't really want it that badly ...

Once I changed my way of thinking, I noticed a door that had been open all along :agrin:

I can't agree enough with the pearl 'its not about a good business, its being good in business'

I run many 'good businesses', but I am only just figuring out how to run them well - every day up until 3 months ago has been a practice run. Something hit me that's been staring me in the face all along.

JUST DO IT!!

Its hammer time :rokk: