http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,114615,00.html

Looks like Poland is considering a pull out, Spain is June 30th, and now Korea doesn't want to send troops to end up doing "offensive operations"...

In other news, it looks like the guy they thought was trapped in fighting in Pakistan has slipped away:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1069992.htm

Bush can't seem to get a break this week.

Alex

and why canadiens show more interest in US politics than american show in canadien?
;_))

FREE QUEBEC!
;-)))

It is ashame to see countries that have lost their manhoods....

All they are doing is inviting more terrorism. You cannot not negotiate or reason with these animals!

Serge, just like a small dog, we always watch what the big dog is doing... remember, more people in California than there is in Canada! :-)

Mike: Losing manhood, perhaps... maybe realizing that poking a sharp stick into a hornet nest isn't a good way to live safely.

Alex

I wonder if people thought fighting Hitler was sticking a stick into a hornets nest?? Appeasement does not win. It only encourages more agression.

All the "hornets" must be exterminated. Maybe we should call in Meni!

If, or when another terrorist attack hits the US - do you think the American people will run away? Do you think we would give up?

What is wrong with a Nation when it does not even want to defend itself when their fellow citizens were MURDERED??

It is one thing for a person to be a coward, but a hole nation full is unsettling. I guess this is the modern face of socialist europe.

I wonder what their ancestors would have done? If they would have been the same cowards as the modern Spanish, the muslims would already be owning Spain.

Mike, you left our "pinko communist", "marxist weenies" and "stupid democrat" in that post...

please don't disappoint me like this.

"Coalition of the less than willing"

Mike, you don't get reactions like this for a single event. Spain has been the home of years of ETA bombings / terrorist actions. Many people have died, many more injured, affected, or touched by such violence. It isn't the single terrorist act that suddenly makes them want to get out... it is maybe the final straw for people that feel maybe that they shouldn't have gotten involved in the first place...

Alex, let me ask you the question:
do Empires fall because they are too strong or because their people become complacent?

I like American Empire....and don't want it to fall because everybody beelive that one can negotiate with terrororists...

Mikey, Mikey, Mikey ...

Has it occurred to you that the reaction of the Spanish electorate may have had something to do with a) the unpopularity of the war, and B) the attempts to foster blame off onto ETA in spite of the evidence, rather than just their "lack of manhood"? I'm not suprised that this difficult concept is far too complex for Buff's world view, but I've always assumed you could think a little.

Quick history lesson (no, I wasn't alive back then - but I was born a lot closer to it than you were). Hitler became the leader of Germany. Germany is a country in Donald MacRumsfeld's "Olde Europe." Anyway, it's real handy when the enemy you want to fight is a state - for one thing, it makes finding them a little easier.

It could very well be that nations like Spain, Poland, and South Korea have now realized that they are not the Coalition of the Willing, but the Coalition of the Duped. It could very well be that these nations are not crumbling to terror at all - it could be that they have concluded that Iraq did not present near the threat to the Sudetenland Germans - oh, excuse me, the peace and stability of the world - that Bush said they did.

BTW ... You must know something about WWII and Germany, becasue I'd swear your reasons for invading Iraq (not to be confused with the things that Bush, Cheney, et al tell us American citizen-sheep) contain some elements of Nazi lebensraum theories ... but I digress.

Actuallly, empires fall because they start to buy into their own bullshit too much, and like a snake, end up eating their own tails.

It isn't about negotiating with terrorists. It's about not sticking the sharp stick into a hornet's nest every time you see one just to find out what will happen.

Alex

Actuallly, empires fall because they start to buy into their own bullshit too much, and like a snake, end up eating their own tails.

It isn't about negotiating with terrorists. It's about not sticking the sharp stick into a hornet's nest every time you see one just to find out what will happen.

Alex[/b][/quote]
History Knowlege - C-

Biology Knowledge - C+

Human Nature Understanding - F

Ostrich politics. He who put head in sand usually get ass blown away. :agrin:

Errr this isn't a conventional war.

The conventional military has been defeated.

Iraq is defeated.

A UN force should be sent to occupy.

There is however still a terrorist threat to defeat.

Conventional forces do not perform well against "guerilla" tactics.

Rome suffered defeat using the best trained military of the period against many barbarian nations utilising thick forests or other unconventional military tactics.Britain lost to guerilla tactics in the War of Independence , and the US performed badly in Vietnam.

Special Forces Cells should now be authorised to seek and destroy.

SAS officers killing terorists in the streets of Gibralter proved very effective ;)

JMHO

:)

Shit if I don't agree with you 110% on this.

And the Massad (who should be the blueprint of any intelligence agency, IMHO) did the same after the 72 Olympics And throughout the world.

Btw, I did read about a new special US semi-covert (I say semi cause it was in Time or Newsweek) recently that looks amazing ... part Seals, part CIA, part a few other things. They are part terrorist assassination squad, part fast-deployment (any place in the world no matter how remote within six hours of a legitimate intelligence tip) and the field action team is a very small band of "specialists".

To think, it only took four decades since Mission Impossible and The Avengers for the government to get the idea!

Looks like Poland is back on.

As far as Spain, I do not know the situation that well to comment much. The Bush administration has been very week in courting our traditional alies, and more work should be done.

Fortunately for the world, the US can go at this alone, and will if need be.

Nick the idea of open hunting season on terrorists is a good idea... I have a feeling there are some open hunting zones already. I think we will see more movement in Afganistan now that the snow is melting....

Ever if the Pakistanis don't get the #2 al quada guy, they seemed to have killed a few hundred hardcore supporters.... this is the type of war where each terrorist killed is a possitive step.

I wonder if people thought fighting Hitler was sticking a stick into a hornets nest?? Appeasement does not win. It only encourages more agression.

All the "hornets" must be exterminated. Maybe we should call in Meni![/b][/quote]
If the Japanese hadn't bombed Peal Harbour when do you think you'd have started sticking a stick into Hitler's hornet's nest?

Also, how many countries had Hitler invaded before you were forced to declare war in December 1941?

Not such a great comparison.

Besides, these days, you are the ones doing the invading.



Last edited by Joe Sixpack at Mar 19 2004, 04:15 PM

If the Japanese hadn't bombed Peal Harbour when do you think have started sticking a stick into Hitler's hornet's nest?

Also, how many countries had Hitler invaded before you were forced to declare war in December 1941?

Not such a great comparison.

Besides, these days, you are the ones doing the invading.[/b][/quote]


You knowledge of history is poor. The US was arming the English, and doing everything it could short of direct military conflict before Pearl Harbor. FDR knew war was coming, and was doing everything he could to make sure the country was ready.

Before WWII the United States was focusing on coming out of the Great Depression, and for the most part were not interested in the world outside. Republicans at the time were isolationists.

Since WWII, things have changed dramaticly. It is tough being the world's lone superpower.... it leaves us with many obligations.

If the US went back to being isolationists, the world as YOU know it would collapse... economicly, militarily, socially.

Since WWII most of the world and especially Europe lives in peace because of the US. You may want to disagree, but this is a fact.

You knowledge of history is poor. The US was arming the English, and doing everything it could short of direct military conflict before Pearl Harbor. FDR knew war was coming, and was doing everything he could to make sure the country was ready.

Before WWII the United States was focusing on coming out of the Great Depression, and for the most part were not interested in the world outside. Republicans at the time were isolationists.

Since WWII, things have changed dramaticly. It is tough being the world's lone superpower.... it leaves us with many obligations.

If the US went back to being isolationists, the world as YOU know it would collapse... economicly, militarily, socially.

Since WWII most of the world and especially Europe lives in peace because of the US. You may want to disagree, but this is a fact.[/b][/quote]
Arming the English isn't the point. Of course it was in your interests to support the side of your allies.

If you're so keen on sticking a stick into dictators hornet's nests, why didn't you declare war when Britain and Australia did?

This war, like all the others, is all about your interests, not the interests of anyone else, particularly Spain.



Last edited by Joe Sixpack at Mar 19 2004, 04:26 PM

Arming the English isn't the point. Of course it was in your interests to support the side of your allies.

If you're so keen on sticking a stick into dictators hornet's nests, why didn't you declare war when Britain and Australia did?

This war is all about your interests, not the interests of anyone else, particularly Spain.[/b][/quote]


Joe you are right on the money.

Wars, and foreign policy are all about interests. A nation has no permant friends and alies, only permanent interests. ( Yeah I stold this from G. Washington)

We did not declare war earlier in WWII because the American people were generally isolationists and did not want to be dragged into another European war. I think we learned a lot of lessons since then....

Wait ... I thought they were Old Europe, and no longer relevant.

Additionally, I think some of our allies would be a bit put off by what you have consistently said was the real aim of the war - securing the oil supply and establishing a permanent base in the region for future operations against regimes we don't like.

Perhaps we should have a meeting of the Foreign Policy executives of our traditional allies, and they could haggle over spheres of influence in the region.

You'd really have to invite the Russians to that party, though ... if only for historical consistency.

Korea, Poland are just protecting their own ass publicly so not to get struck by terorists, but i bet privetly are still with us and will continue to be so ..... except Canadian pussies



Last edited by slavdogg at Mar 19 2004, 08:16 PM

History Knowlege - C-

Biology Knowledge - C+

Human Nature Understanding - F[/b][/quote]
Mike AI and Serge Oprano's understanding of anything political:
F--
This place is like a freekin home for wayward fascists. Its kind of like living a Merle Haggard song. It is, however, compelling like watching the monkeys copulating in a zoo. The sad thing is that they actually allow you guys to vote. Scarey thought.

PD Even Old Europe is worth courting.... lets face it, they are still important in this world. Even while they are rotting from the inside, the US still has vital interests there and should stay involved.

I know you want me to defend all of Bush's policies, but it won't happen. He has messed up his fair share, but under circumstances I cannot Kerry doing any better when it comes to defense.

PD Even Old Europe is worth courting.... lets face it, they are still important in this world. Even while they are rotting from the inside, the US still has vital interests there and should stay involved.

I know you want me to defend all of Bush's policies, but it won't happen. He has messed up his fair share, but under circumstances I cannot Kerry doing any better when it comes to defense.[/b][/quote]
Rotting from the inside? I don't have a fucking clue wtf you mean by that.

Mikey, as far as I can see the reasons Bush did so poorly is that he didn't negotiate with anything resembling good faith. I don't think Kerry would have made the same mistake. Hell, I don't think GW's daddy, Bob Dole, or John McCain would have made the same mistake.

Regardless of whatever counterspin may be attempted in the post-war envirionment, the failure to locate any WMD, proves that the position of the French and Germans was correct - there was no imminent danger.

The idea that there were ties between Saddam and alQaida was laughable from the minute the Bush surrogates began to spout it.

But ... to negotiate with the nations to whom Iraq was in debt would have caused two problems. The first, of couse, is that it would have taken on the appearance of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact (although you can use Yalta, if that would make you feel more comfortable) that even the skillful talents of Scott McClellan and his predecessor would not have been able to put a pretty face on.

Further - and here I am using your oft-stated opinions as the real reason for the war - that could have threatened or diluted the ability of the U.S. to secure long term bases in the region to protect the oil supply and give us a base of operations against the next oil supplier we decide is a threat.



Last edited by PornoDoggy at Mar 19 2004, 10:42 PM

Rotting from the inside? I don't have a fucking clue wtf you mean by that.

Mikey, as far as I can see the reasons Bush did so poorly is that he didn't negotiate with anything resembling good faith. I don't think Kerry would have made the same mistake. Hell, I don't think GW's daddy, Bob Dole, or John McCain would have made the same mistake.

Regardless of whatever counterspin may be attempted in the post-war envirionment, the failure to locate any WMD, proves that the position of the French and Germans was correct - there was no imminent danger.

The idea that there were ties between Saddam and alQaida was laughable from the minute the Bush surrogates began to spout it.

But ... to negotiate with the nations to whom Iraq was in debt would have caused two problems. The first, of couse, is that it would have taken on the appearance of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact (although you can use Yalta, if that would make you feel more comfortable) that even the skillful talents of Scott McClellan and his predecessor would not have been able to put a pretty face on.

Further - and here I am using your oft-stated opinions as the real reason for the war - that could have threatened or diluted the ability of the U.S. to secure long term bases in the region to protect the oil supply and give us a base of operations against the next oil supplier we decide is a threat.[/b][/quote]
You know, the interesting thing about this American election is the gathering storm. President Cheney and G. Bush and company lied through their teeth. Everyone knows that. I watched the same thing happen with Watergate. The ducking. The diving. The accusations and all the bs. Bottom line is Bush et al are toast. The sooner you reactionary book burners with big opinions and no insight realize this, the less disappointed you will be when this freekin government who would put you out of business in a heartbeat as well as confiscate all your earnings goes down like a lead zeppelin. When it happens the world will be a safer place for us all.