also...WHO processes zoologists today?

Oddly enough your second question I just heard an answer to the other day Sergei :)

The first one, I dont think is January, I think its going to start next week.

I'm of the mind that there are more than a couple people over the limit and doing high numbers who are going to feel it in the pocketbook for the holidays.

Kimmy,

What's happening on that exactly??

Looking into my magic 8 ball I'd say someone's going to get fined for the chargebacks they have over 1%.

Who it's going to be requires me to get out my Ouija board and its in storage.

Sounds wonderfully intriguing.

:lol:

It will be interesting to see which webmasters are canceled by the sponsors because the webmaster's charge back rate is high. :zoinks:

Programs have to tighten up their watch on wm's that are trending on CB's.. I know several programs started a couple months ago, and got all sorts of grief for it... but... you have to watch your business carefully, and things that are going to cause your business problems or $$$ have to be dealt with.... period...

One of the big problems with resellers is what I'll term inadverdent fraud.

Guy is promoting a site or sites and he's doing his best to make a sale. He's not trying to cheat the program, but he's gotta eat.

So he maybe 'overmarkets' the site, then the surfer joins and figures out he ain't getting what he signed on for... and either gets a credit or a chargeback.

It's not deliberate fraud on the resellers part but it leads to problems for the program when its being done in mass quantity by the resellers...

Let's say, and this is a number out of thin air, that 15% of the resellers in any given program are 'overmarketing' the products. Depending on the volume of joins from these resellers, a program could land in hot water VERY quickly with the cb ratios allowable now.

Someone icq'd me yesterday about this very problem -- seems the reseller was promising a certain video that wasn't in the site...

More than one revshare program has been hit with reseller fraud of late as well, not a good sign, tho that is a deliberate defrauding of the program, not an accidental one as the case above illustrates.

*nods*
The allowable CB ratios make it very easy for a company to put a competitor out of the processing business. Nasty stuff, and probably untraceable.

*nods*
The allowable CB ratios make it very easy for a company to put a competitor out of the processing business. Nasty stuff, and probably untraceable.[/b][/quote]
Not sure what you mean by put a competitor out of business Carrie, can you explain more?

Even with excellent customer service I wonder who can.

I hear rumors in the grape vine of options coming. It will be interesting to see what these are. My predictions are:

New payment options

Visa kicks serious ass then Mc/Visa announce they will not longer do subscription billing online.

By the end of next year it will be prepaid porn which will now prompt the government to handle legal age requirements differently imposing more laws.

One of the big problems with resellers is what I'll term inadverdent fraud.

Guy is promoting a site or sites and he's doing his best to make a sale. He's not trying to cheat the program, but he's gotta eat.

So he maybe 'overmarkets' the site, then the surfer joins and figures out he ain't getting what he signed on for... and either gets a credit or a chargeback.

It's not deliberate fraud on the resellers part but it leads to problems for the program when its being done in mass quantity by the resellers...

Let's say, and this is a number out of thin air, that 15% of the resellers in any given program are 'overmarketing' the products. Depending on the volume of joins from these resellers, a program could land in hot water VERY quickly with the cb ratios allowable now.

Someone icq'd me yesterday about this very problem -- seems the reseller was promising a certain video that wasn't in the site...

More than one revshare program has been hit with reseller fraud of late as well, not a good sign, tho that is a deliberate defrauding of the program, not an accidental one as the case above illustrates.[/b][/quote]
I used to wonder about chargebacks until I started asking for passes into sites I push, and ya know what I found.

Sometimes sites look much different inside than out, even sponsors who buy expensive ads on message boards.

I started pushing a sponsor who had nothing but exclusive content, tour rocked, and it converted!

After a few chargebacks, I logged into the site, and found out why?

It wasnt that was OVERMARKETING the site, it was that the sets were of 25 images each and the site consisted of MAYBE 25 girls and plug ins, but the tour was all exclusive content.

Having been in and out of some of the biggest members sections over the past 3+ years has shown me that most paysites out there, no matter what are nothing but shit anyhow.

exclusive or not, if members are not satisfied, they DO chargeback.

Although I agree, someone saying: See Tawnee Stone gang banged by 4 black midgets' is telling a tale for sign ups, sometimes the blame falls on the people who are focused more on an upsell even if the content is exclusive.

I don't particularly think exclusive content plays the role it did even a year ago in the chargeback scenario.

Surfers are smarter, they are greedy, and in about the same percentages as resellers and program owners.

The system is simply flawed the way it is. I'm sure there will be a market correction coming down the pipe, and there will be plenty of opportunities for those that are paying attention.

That's what I said in my post, it doesnt have any effect really.

The bottom line is STILL if the surfer is pleased or not.

I have been in an average of 3-5 member sections a week for over 2 years straight now, have passes to more than i could log into in one day, and some are nothing but total crap, UPSELLS UPSELLS UPSELLS.

If I could fit that onto a license plate i would.

IN addition, Ill say the best sites I have been in, and the ones with the most content, exclusive or not.

Dont even have webmaster programs.

If I could fit that onto a license plate i would.[/b][/quote]
:okthumb:

If I could fit that onto a license plate i would.[/b][/quote]
UP53LL5

leet plate

hahaha UPSELLS on the front plate...

CHARGEBACKS on the rear? ; )

Fletch, who are they?

how could I remember?

Im just a dumb stoner, remember?

durrrrp.

Well Fletch, what do you do with all those surfers that cancel before they ever log in? They may be happy with what they get but they're done already.

And the surfers who will chargeback and get credits no matter what the site has?

Is this a leading question to be answered....

Accept Epassporte?

Why are you asking me?

I was just stating my opinion on sites.

:D

how could I remember?

Im just a dumb stoner, remember?

durrrrp.[/b][/quote]
I called you dumb? :huh:

Come on man, give it up.

I did.

I havent smoked in days!

:awinky:

Are they in your recommended list?

http://www.fletchxxx.com/webmasters.html

:yowsa:

why would they be if they dont have webmaster programs?

:awinky:

Nothing gets by you! :groucho:

http://www.sptimes.com/photo_review/.../lightning.jpg

Biggest thing overlooked in internet porn is that the customer base is mostly men who don't like commitment.

As in site porn memberships among other things.

Don't try to tie them into something and overcharge them at the same time, it never works.



Last edited by cherrylula at Dec 4 2003, 02:20 PM

Because I generally like to see what other people are thinking and pick thru it to see what I might learn :)

Because I generally like to see what other people are thinking and pick thru it to see what I might learn :)[/b][/quote]
Well, to be honest, unless it's a trial, I really do not know anything about someone cancelling a membership to a site before even logging in.

I know trial abusers do it, old trick. 3 day trial, kill it on day one, still have days to play.

But if you say it, I believe it, so no coue what to do with them.

I spoke only about the customers who are genuinely displeased with what the member section has to offer.

Membership, and subscription abusers have been around forever.

What person has subsribed to a magazine, didnt read past the second issue and never really paid? Same with paysites I suppose.

Guys are guys, and as Cherry said, commitment is a part of it.

You are saying some kill their pass before even logging in, that says to me, those guys KNOW THEY ARE DOING, so odds are they will get around whatever you can set up.

You are dealing with men who want the best deal, dont want recurring usually, and who are embarrassed with themself after realizing they spend 100 bucks a month or more on porn when they cant get it up and fuck their wife.

Its a weird puzzle, and a weird target audience.

I HAVE seen someone put up a 'WARNING' link near the 'CANCEL YOUR MEMBERSHIP' link that went a page straight up saying, 'look we know some of you bastards will charge this back and claim you never logged in. we keep detailed records of your ip and timestamp all your accesses, so if you try and fraud us we will prove to your credit card company you are frauding them'

or something like that.

who knows, maybe it worked!

I've been scratching my head for years wondering why people even buy memberships when you can either get so much free content or get passwords to most any site.

You don't have to go out and spend money to see what's behind member sections just go into any of the big password sites and you'll find a way into lots of the large sponsors and most of the smaller sites.

You won't be impressed by many nor would you be inclined to return to many again. Its all the same every site you go with the exception of a couple that focus on really specific niches. Like fuckingmachines.com. That's got a good members section and its updated often. But that's very rare.

And let's face it most people are here with the get rich quick hit and run attitude, not let's build a solid customer based business and spend a fortune on content. The economics really don't facilitate that for most sites anyway.

Not sure what you mean by put a competitor out of business Carrie, can you explain more?[/b][/quote]
Company A gets a bunch of carders to sign up for Company B and chargeback, raising Company B's ratio to critical levels.
Or they hire a bunch of webmasters to do the "false advertising" thing and send lots of traffic to the site that will chargeback when they find that Tawnee doesn't get gangbanged by 5 black midgets anywhere inside the site.

All kinds of creative ways to do it.

Btw we had a surfer sign up for a full membership (no trial) and cancel BEFORE he logged in a couple of days ago. Literally minutes later, probably just long enough to get his confirmation email.
His login is still good for the month and we still got a month's fee out of him, but he's assured himself that he won't be rebilled and he won't forget to cancel.

IMO Anywhere from 40-60% of paysite customers these days are trial abusers ... As opposed to maybe 5 - 10% 2 years ago ..


It does, it has a really noticable effect on chargebacks ... it is also good to point out to the subscriber that a chargeback will result in their card being added to a negative database which will prevent them from ever buying anything on the internet ever again .... (enough people believe it!)

Cherry, you might be onto something with the 'men don't like commitment' thing LOL
I haven't updated my women's paysites since March & they still have as many rebills as my men's paysites which are updated ... er ... occasionally ...

Doesn't the online casino industry actually do that? Add credit cards to a blacklist db.

Or am I just extremely gullible?

Fatpad, the way I have always understood it is that the 3rd party processors do it themselves, but don't really share ...

We add email addresses to our 'fuck off' list of anyone who refunds, chargebacks etc ...

Just think, if we are gullible enough to believe there is blacklists, the surfers should be too :biglaugh:

EVERY processor has its own negative db - consisting of chargebackers, chronic cancellers and the like -- quite frankly I'm glad they don't share, that would make a good case for collusion and competitive disadvantage, not to mention that if they were sharing card numbers between them for any reason you'd probably see Visa and MC dump them all.

A lot of companies use the calendar year for their fiscal year. If someone were being hit in a week from now, and knew they were going to keep getting hit ... or someone wasn't hit, but they can see it coming hard the next month and there after ... what a perfect time to close shop all nice and neatly but on December 31st, instead of opening up the books for '04 for just a few weeks or a couple months. (Not to mention why go to Vegas a few days later.)

I think that's the basis of the January Theory. At least that's the basis of it as I see it. B)

Good point KK ....

I had always liked CCBill's 'vscrub' or whatever it was where you can use their scrub for your own merchant account ... they hang onto the card numbers but the merchant account still gets the protection.

Could somebody please fast forward to 2005? I'm so bored with processing :angry:

gotta be Lensman...or why else would he kill my sig on his board?

Hellpuppy...

Somebody just said prepaid again...hehehe..
Now Aint that some shit?

Thats the way I saw it done.....

we scrubbed against our own database, if they were ok we sent them on to any of various processors....

lol...and if they bombed at a processor we sent them to another one and another and another and ...........








and if all else fails..... There is always Guatemala......... :yowsa:

Best pre-paid model I've seen is mail the check to a p.o. box.

All of the ones I've seen after that have fleas...

Card number posting hasn't been allowed in a long time for a good reason.

kk, what was/is the name of the company who maintains that shared negative database?

i think ibill used it.

wow, that's a blast from the past, and I can't remember off the top of my head... we didn't use it at CCBill since our fraud scrub was designed an entirely different way

Shared Global - www.sharedglobal.com

The world's largest database of misspelled addresses.

:bjump: