Ok today I learned another model, this is the second, who will no longer
shoot for Wanton Girls or anybody else connected to the online porn biz.

Why? Because these girls now surf the Internet and they both came across sites that featured them - they were described as things like 'dumb bitches' , 'whores', etc etc This is the webmaster describing them, it upset them.

This is what porn has become now, more and more it's about humiliating these little 18 year old girls. Yes they get naked for pictures and suck cock on video for money but apparently they have feelings too.

Not really sure where I stand on it, I think it's pretty mysogynistic but the girls also have to wake up and realize when you decide that you're going to become a pornstar many people are going to call you a whore. Some of them can't distinguish that they are playing a role in these reality videos, and that webmasters are making up little stories about "the girl sucking cock in the videos" not them personally.

I'm not into this shit at all, I think porn is now all about humiliating people, just like mainstream entertainment is going down the same road.
I remember when porn was just about seeing naked chicks and people having sex. Obviously that doesn't cut it these days.

Mutt,
you are right...
when Oprano and Billy called me ASSHOLE,
I sulked the whole nite and didn't come to work next morning....

Mutt I wholeheartedly agree.

Problem is ,as in main stream TV, it is what sells.Therefore I do it.

I guess I am whore.

Let's face it, slowly but surely women will control porn. It started with the internet and it will end with it. Look at the girls who have discovered they were abused and went on to build their own sites? No, they can't compete with mega sites but if you watch what's happening with consumers you'll see that mega sites have exploited the industry so bad that the consumer is heading for safe waters. A New Dawn of amateur will unfold.

PPV I think is going to be even bigger. Girls on cams, etc.

ahahahahaha not going to happen.

:)

Don't they realize that they're, in essence "acting a part"? Look at mainstream TV - very high paid actresses are being called whores, sluts, bitches, idiots, etc. in movies on TV and on Broadway. I'm not saying it's right, but it's certainly not just porn. :zoinks:

18 is that great age where you might be legally able to sign your name to a contract, but unless you're really intelligent, your head won't be on straight for another 10+ years. :blink:

They don't understand that Peaches, they don't see themselves as playing characters, at least when they shoot the kind of content that is used on websites. They just see themselves on these websites which most of them have no clue they are shooting for at the time and somebody's calling them a crackhead and stuff and they get indignant. Most girls enter porn through the video industry, and to be honest other than the companies doing the real extreme humiliating stuff Extreme Associates and Anabolic, they are treated like little princess pornstars. They've never been featured on a video box cover as the 'stupid little *unt we tricked into fucking us'.

The ironic thing is that the girls who are pissed off are the smarter ones who probably should be able to understand what's going on.
Actually to be fair to them, they do understand, and they've just come to a pretty intelligent decision that it's not worth $500 to do a scene for an Internet company if they're going to be characterized as a crackhead.
The real idiotic crazy ones, they don't give a shit what's said about them or done to them - they've already got the self esteem problems and revel in being a nasty little slut. Porn industry loves those girls, nuttin better than finding one fresh off the bus with a bag full of meds.

why does porn have to be so misogynistic these days? if it takes seeing a girl choke and vomit on a dick to get this next generation of young dudes off i say that's pretty sick.

Nick, sweetie, sorry to break it to you, but we already do
:awinky:

Men control the porn industry about as much as they control getting laid(with a female - not five-fingered Mary). :P

Where would you guys all be without women willing to get in front of the camera?

Mutt - maybe when you initially interview a new model, you might let her know up front that she is playing a role, fulfilling a fantasy, and different webmasters will look at her photographs and make up their own stories about what's going on in order to keep their surfers happy. If you've got a "cooling off" period where the girl goes home for a day or two before committing to a shoot, you might encourage her to surf some porn sites and see how her photos will be used.
At least then you'll know that the ones who come in for the shoot are fully aware and are less likely to throw a hissy fit and quit. (Although in the same vein, it will probably cut down on the number of girls who come back.)

OMG :zoinks: I guess I haven't been paying attention and didn't realize we were at that level :(

Here is an interesting twist on all of this though... if you are shooting for a "reality" site, and you make it clear to the public in your promotion that the site is "all real" or "real people fucking in public", then you take a person and portray them as something they aren't, isn't there a chance that the public would be misinformed about the person?

We don't work with scripts, for the most part - and often the girls have no idea what is up until either the middle of the scene (bad) or after it is edited together with unrelated tape (such as scenes of a crack house, other characters making jokes about picking up a crackwhore, maybe the video being using in "Crackwhores Fucking for Money.com" - all without the model knowing what the end product will really be.

Yup, you have a model release, and those seem to hold pretty good, but I am not 100% sure that every court would feel the same, ya know?

Not real sure, at all.

Alex

I bet plenty of non porn models would have experienced their images being used in some way they don't personally like..

I am doing quite well without them, thank you very much
;-))

http://www.raceworx.com/funnypics/do...ouise%20no.jpg

Thats what KA says lol !!!!

Peaches you are right.... the girls have to understand they are playing a role. Do I think Pamala Anderson was a lifeguard? OR a secret agent who solves all the world problems?

I have dealt with this a lot with the girls I shoot. I purposely build a fictitious name, and whole character... it protects them. But they sometimes call me up and complain how they are portrayed.

Unless you are building your own site, or its being built around you - you are a character - get over it.

As far as degredation and such in reality - there has always been things like that - and will always be. It is getting worse... but we have to deliver what the public wants. Everytime mainstream go hard, we have to go harder....

Mutt, I would tell the 2 girls to get over it.... 2 girls out of the thoussands that are shooting porn everyday? haha they will just lose out on $$$.

Being called a slut, or whore, or stupid - I mean come on - grow up.

Stick and Stones will break your bones, but names will never hurt you....

if I took to heart every insult I got on the boards,
I'd join Jackie Barley in mental hospital...

gee,
some people should learn how to separate the cyber worl\d from reality!
;-)))

well said...

goat fucker :)) well, on second thought you probably don't consider that an insult...

:cdance: :cdance: :cdance: :cdance: :cdance: :cdance: :cdance:


:nyanya:

:cdance: :cdance: :cdance: :cdance: :cdance: :cdance: :cdance:

Like I always said... It takes one pussy hair to pull battle ships across the dessert.

"The face that launched a thousand ships..."

Serge, I can see you've read the optional "How not to dig yourself a hole" marriage handbook thoroughly, LOL

where is ol' GooeyCandy these days? which board is she haunting now?

holy shit...until carrie posted that i didn't even realize how that could be taken out of context.

obviously no disrespect intended :)

i hope it wasn't taken that way...

i definitely need a beer.

she's a smart lady ;-)

:P

One of our customers wanted the "trash women" Bangbus style of "reality" porn, but PhotoGregg and I don't like to shoot that at all. We pretty much ignored the request and shot our usual style for the site and the site is one of the top converting sites for the customer. So I know you don't have to call women crack whores or such to sell porn on the Internet, even today.

Your shoots and sites seem to focus on "fun" instead of abuse. :)

Oh boy, and I'm headed to Vancouver on Thursday ;)

Forgive me for betraying my gender but for Chrissakes if these girls cannot LOOK at the sites and see the situation for what it is then maybe we should be handing out IQ tests prior to getting the sigs on the model releases.

No, it's not always a nice portrayal, but you know what? These girls are for the most part not shooting erotica but hardcore porn.

As RB said to me in a conversation one day... "you stick a cucumber up there and someone takes a picture, what do you THINK people are going to say about it?"...

And I'm sure some of you will remember the internet this was a topic.

holy shit...until carrie posted that i didn't even realize how that could be taken out of context.

obviously no disrespect intended :)

i hope it wasn't taken that way...

i definitely need a beer.[/b][/quote]
T-Rav,
The "face that launched a thousand ships" comment was in response to Dianna saying "Like I always said... It takes one pussy hair to pull battle ships across the dessert. " Her saying reminded me of that quote.

The Serge comment was in response to him saying that he's doing quite well without women in front of the camera, and it was a joke.

KK I agree. Still, there's not many 19yr olds who can handle seeing themselves being called a "nasty bitch" or a "whore" and slough it off.

Hell, there's some grown women who feel the need to take every little thing personally. It's either insecurity or an overinflated sense of self; probably a mixture of both.

*looking back through thread to see if Mutt mentioned how old the two models were*

hell, with that theory, i could call you a whore all day long and you would only get offended if you were insecure or had an over inflated sense of self!!

LMAO

:rolleyes:

i agree its pretty lame to complain about how your photos are used if you are doing hardcore porn ... KK, that quote from RB said it perfect!

BUT
we really do stoop way too low way too often
we are justifying calling someone a stupid whore ...

i think the most offensive part to most would be the 'stupid' part

:D

i think its more a question of communication. i have worked with hundreds of models in person and usually, they think money first... and everything else is an afterthought.

i think its a deeply emotional thing just to be able to drop your guard and your clothes and start taking hardcore photos/video. people have boundaries both physically and emotionally and for most, it is difficult and somewhat traumatic to move beyond those boundaries.

we try very hard to address this issue very well in our studios. we get a ton of rude users in all chat rooms being extremely rude and mean... in addition that the discomfort of being nude in front of the world with their legs spread... its increasingly demoralizing when users are "less than supportive" ... but what it is... is what it is. we cant modify the behavior of the users and change others, we can only modify our own behavior.

thats why we go very far out of our way to teach the girls that the rudeness (the guys who enter and type in all caps "PUT YOUR FINGERS IN YOUR ASS BITCH) is just role play and fantasy. that he is just acting out a fantasy that he cannot act out at home with his wife/girlfriend or whatever.

we feel its necessary to do a lot to build them [girls] up while they are working by constantly letting them know in various ways that they are the star, that everyone is there because they like them... because they are beautiful... because they have a beautiful smile... great eyes... a nice body and a terrific personality etc etc.

to me, its just an issue of communication. everyone wants the $$$ - everything else is an afterthought. to have a happy and successful relationship, there must be clear and successful communication. i think its our job to make sure that everyone is clear on whats going on, what will happen, how that content will be used, who will be looking at it etc.

I think mutt, that if the girl was not happy after the fact... she would not have been any more content, if everything had been explained to her upfront. she just was probably not the right person for the job.



Last edited by JR at Mar 4 2003, 11:24 PM

JR, agreed on all of the above. I think it's fantastic that you take the time to prepare your girls before they go on cam (and during, it seems).

What percentage of the models/talent that you work with ultimately change their mind *before* getting in front of the camera?

thanks. one of the bigger lessons i have learned is that you cannot demand a bright smile every second in front of the cam. but you can go a long way to create the conditions that makes it much easier to smile by creating a pleasant place to work.

here is what typically happens.

100 girls will call.
about 20 will agree to meet.
about 5 will actually show.
maybe 1-2 will agree to work

at the point they agreed to work...

they still did not tell their parents
they still did not tell their boyfriends.
they still did not tell their husbands
they still did not think about what will happen if someone she knows sees her
they still did not think about what it means to actually get naked in front of thousands and do anything they request.
they still did not think that maybe XXX$ is maybe not enough

quite a few change their minds before working for those reasons and more. i dont get involved in that side of things as much as i did before. so i dont know exactly what the typical numbers would look like.

Um, and your point is?

;-}}}}}

Mutt: Context is everything :-)

If the sets were vanilla strip to dildo ones, then calling the models whores, sluts etc is a bit beyond the pale. There's at least one content provider out there whose licence specifically prohibits demeaning or degrading the models in their descriptions.

If they're role-playing domination gangbang spitroast with ass to mouth cumshot sets, then what did the models expect? For once, it's not Joe Surfer having a hard time distinguishing between fantasy and reality.

And we'l be delighted to pick you up you dirty slut:)l

ahahahahahahahahahahaha

precisely!!!!!

If models are not told ahead of time that these things can happen, is it exploitation?

KK, my little sister is living there at the moment

kezza82@netscape.net

if you get a change, say hi!
(but don't leave her alone with nick ....)

:D

girls were both 20-22 range. one is pretty experienced in the adult video biz, which is where I think she had the problem, she's probably done 30 videos and never seen herself described or portrayed that way on a box cover. She doesn't shoot for the vid companies who do the extreme type vids like Extreme Associates or Anabolic so finding herself on a website referred to as a crackhead or whatever shocked her.

Many of these girls are not stupid but they are always a step behind the smarter men who hire them. They learn as they go along.
I have a customer that wants custom photos of girls with phones in their hand, not too hardcore. For a phone dating website. I didn't anticipate any problem with it but it was taking longer than I expected so I asked my photographer why - a few of the girls when asked to hold the phone, immediately said no - they assumed it was for phonesex ads and they didn't want to see their faces for the next 10 years in the back of magazines. So i guess this is the kind of thing girls learn through experience and then pass along to other girls. Don't pose with a phone.

.

Well I sat down and have a good talk with every girl who shows up on my doorstep wanting to model. I inform them that, yes, their friends boyfriends family COULD find the pictures, and they should probably tell them, but if they don't they should be fully prepared to deal with it or they shouldn't bother showing up. Second, I inform them that they COULD be portrayed pretty much any way that the people who use the images would like, and if they aren't prepared for THAT, they should walk away. Armed that that information, if they still shoot, then they can't come back and blame me for not informing them. They are told flat out what it can involve, if they don't take it seriously or they think it "won't happen to them", it's out of my hands.

And for the record, I generally like being called a "dirty little whore", or a "slutty little bitch", especially while being spanked. I don't know what the fuck their problem is :P

Colin, to an extent, I wonder about this - we don't have scripts, often we shoto content without a "target" (ie, we shoot generic porn, then add words, titles, music, etc to create a setup), and often pictures and videos are made without any context.

As Mutt said, the girls should really know that the content could be used for ANYTHING - they could be a virgin on one site, and a crack whore streetwalker on the next. Because some people don't make that clear, well, you end up with people complaining - without merit, if the model release is clearly worded.

I think though there may be an issue if you are shooting specifically for "crack hos working for their next rock" and the actors / models are NOT informed, and are mislead as to what the content is for - some people will not choose to have themselves associated with this. If you are shooting content specifically for something, you should really tell the people involved what it is for - avoid issues later. IMHO, of course!

Alex

I tell them to go home and watch some porn and practice their looks and fake orgasms (just in case they have to fake them :P )

I hate it when I ask them to project a certain look and they are clueless :headwall:

I've seen some licenses that prohibited the use of the models in phone sex ads. It was always a curiosity to me.
You'll pose naked shoving something "up there", but you don't want to be associated with mere dirty talk? :huh:

JR,

You left one out-

They still do not have a real fucking job.

Mutt I would tell the "model" to stop being a fucking primadonna. There's always a newer, prettier, more willing girl to take her place. Plus you could suggest she go back to the 9-5 world where they don't make you do such objectionable things. That should do the trick.

I always like to err on the side of caution. I also like sleeping at night. For the last few years, every model fills out a model's preferences form before they are hired for a specific shoot. They also sign it. Here it is, feel free to use it/adapt it. There is more to it, this is just the part that is pertinent to this thread.




Although this is a business, and we are producing a product, we want our models to get as much enjoyment out of working for us, as we get out of them. We want you to be comfortable, and we want you to have fun. Below is a list of questions that will better enable us to both have an enjoyable experience. We will make every effort to adhere to your preferences below. If we slip, let us know!

Please rate each item on a scale of 1 to 10. Circle the number that is most appropriate. In every case, a 1 is LEAST ENJOYABLE, while a 10 is MOST ENJOYABLE.

· I enjoy sex.
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

· I enjoy being called names during sex.
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

· I enjoy being called “SLUT”
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

· I enjoy being called “BITCH”
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

· I enjoy being called “WHORE”
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

· I like to be SUBMISSIVE
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

· I like to be DOMINANT
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

Thank you. For some people the above terms are very upsetting. For some, they are a real turn on. We will make every attempt to either use/not use the terms as you have indicated above.

Model Signature: _________________________________ Date: ________________

Oh boy, and I'm headed to Vancouver on Thursday ;)

Forgive me for betraying my gender but for Chrissakes if these girls cannot LOOK at the sites and see the situation for what it is then maybe we should be handing out IQ tests prior to getting the sigs on the model releases.

No, it's not always a nice portrayal, but you know what? These girls are for the most part not shooting erotica but hardcore porn.

As RB said to me in a conversation one day... "you stick a cucumber up there and someone takes a picture, what do you THINK people are going to say about it?"...

And I'm sure some of you will remember the internet this was a topic.[/b][/quote]
KK, most of the time these girls have no clue what site they are going to be on. In the case of content that is being shot for licensing, even we have no clue what site they are going to be on when the shots are taken.

As for RB's question, Here is what I would say about it, I can't speak for others though:

Salad? umm no. I'll take the soup. I don't care what kind, just don't bring the salad.

If I tell customs I am visiting you will they send me back on the next flight? ;)

CJ -- am icqing my number to you, give it to her, tell her to come to dinner Saturday nite --

Good point mof.

And JMM, didn't you eat that cucumber salad at Barfly... ;)