Do you believe anything is possible?

For example:

Must there necessarily be a cure for AIDS?

Can man remove violence from his nature?

Will AI robots, indistinguishable from humans, one day live in our homes?

Will we one day time travel? (Why hasn't anyone come back in time to tell us?)

Or are there things beyond man? Limitations imposed by the Universe, omnipotent beings, or other such mouse-like creatures?

I don't beleive it

Almost anything is possible but most things are not probable

Been thinking about it lately and time travel is impossible
We only live in the present which is always moving
Time is not captured in any form so to travel to another time would be impossible
One may slow their own progress through time (by traveling at extremely high rates of speed) but will still be in the present

Ok Colin - have a field day with that one :)

Even if all of those things were possible, I'm pretty sure the religious folks would rise up and apply enough political and social pressure to make sure they never happen. And the more any developing technology resembles "playing God," the less chance it has of being allowed to continue without the strenuous objection and opposition of those whose income depends on faithful followers.

Sad.

"Time is not captured in any form so to travel to another time would be impossible"

Yes it is! It is captured in music! And that is the point of most "art".

"Or are there things beyond man? Limitations imposed by the Universe, omnipotent beings, or other such mouse-like creatures?"

If we can conceive of these things, they MUST exist.

Something structured DNA for us.




Last edited by heqdvd at Jan 16 2003, 10:35 AM

Human natur says "no limits", so it could be that humans are the once who will try and break the limitations imposed by the Universe with devastating
consequence, and we will serve as a warning to others, if there will be any left...

However we could become god like creatures pushing the univers forward :wnw:

Good grief, Colin! This thread alone should prove ANYTHING is possible! :okthumb:

Should have known better...

Good grief, Colin! This thread alone should prove ANYTHING is possible! :okthumb:[/b][/quote]
Ah-ha!

BTW -- Peaches, have you read Crichton's "TimeLine"?

Ok .. Let me look around here first and see where I left my 10 foot pole.

Good point
However I do not feel that the "point" of most art is to capture time

The essence of (most) art is expression (think cooking) and included in that expression is the wonderful ability to make one think and feel - negative or positive - for me the importance and relevance of a piece of art is perception of the piece and reaction to it -
if there is no reaction to it, perhaps it is not art


If there is a god wouldn't it be found in the human existence as opposed to being created by a portion of the human race?

heqdvd,

Why do you say either of those two things? I'm not sure what you mean. I can conceive of a billion dollars and 40 virgins appearing in my house in the next 30 minutes* but it won't happen.

Why do you say something structured DNA for us? You're not a Raelian, are you? :zoinks:

------------
NOTES:

* Sort of like if Ross Perot went to Islamic Heaven.




Last edited by Colin at Jan 16 2003, 10:46 AM

It's possible that Colin can make me attempt to think with no caffeine in my body.

I read Timeline..it made me wonder for quite a while. Now I'm reading Prey..just getting started but I can see what's coming..

If someone had done a post like this (if there had been computers) at the time some of Jules Verne's work had just been published, we would have said, Spacetravel? Be serious!

I'm going to have to go with the opinion that a lot more is possible than my limited imagination will allow me to consider reasonable.

Colin's a lot smarter than most of us around here...I'm just gonna be a sheep and follow him around :))

And no, that's way different from what Serge does with goats :D

If this made no sense, well, then it's right in line with most of my posts.

Colin, LOVED Timeline! Whenever I think of cloning I think of Timeline - the person may be created ALMOST as a duplicate but not...just....exactly.... :awinky:

Heather, Colin has finished Prey and I'm about 1/2 through it. :okthumb:

I believe that virtually anything is possible. But the possibilities shrink yearly due to mankinds laziness and indifference.

I also believe that A man can remove violence from "his" nature, but mankind as a whole cannot because we're too far gone already. Plus it just doesn't seem to be a priority to most - so it can't happen.

Since time appears to be an invention of man, I'm guessing time travel can eventually exist even if it's some cheap parlor trick just so we can feel a little better/smarter.

About things beyond man... I think there are more things that we don't know than there are things that we do. We still don't have a great grasp what's lurking beneath our waters, so it seems to me there are probably things beyond man - though maybe not perfect, all powerful beings, somewhere..

-Dennis :bwave:

edit: added a comma



Last edited by Menace at Jan 16 2003, 10:59 AM

Oh, and to be as blonde as I always am, I think a lot of things that we DON'T think are possible are, a lot of things we think ARE possible, aren't and we're right on SOME things that we think are and aren't possible :awinky:

I see.

No more comments on "Timeline", please. I'm reading it RIGHT NOW ;-)

Strange to read fiction after all these years. Looking around, I only have about 15 fiction books (and a whole library full of non-fiction) but I can't seem to find many non-fiction books I am interested in anymore. Every year's collection of new non-fiction works seems to be largely repetitious.

I see.[/b][/quote]
Heather is sure nice to me, isn't she heqdvd? It's good to have such friends.

Heather - love ya! :-)

A cure for Aids?
For every disease on earth there should be a cure in nature, so yes.

No, man cannot remove violence from its nature, it is too strong to ignore.

Human like AI technology and artificial brains are still a long way from ready and I don't see it being ready within the next 50 years.

Time travel is still a rather controversial subject and opinions differ strongly, however, time travel would require multiple dimensions and these do exist - whether the human race can develop technology to time travel is another question.

http://delta3.bigcash.com/buttonani.gif
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Have you read
"Godel, Eshcer, Bach"

A lot of these issues are dealt with there...


here's a related thread about computers -

http://nl.ijs.si/~damjan/g-m-c.html

I agree with Peaches. Note: I had a blonde streak once in my more glamorous days.

Can you please give verifiable proof of multiple dimensions to support that statement?

Yes! One of my favorite books! My best friend in college lent me his copy and I still have it. ;-)



Last edited by Colin at Jan 16 2003, 11:27 AM

Interested ...

Are you implying that Godel's Theorem renders human-like artificial intelligence impossible? That is a common view but I disagree.

You can contact Stephen Hawking ;-)

Seriously, most of of the things related to time travel are purely theoretical all we can do at this stage is run simulations and calculations.

John
BigCash.com

So basically what we have now here today is speculation and no verifiable proof of the existence of other dimensions

You have to pardon me, I'm in my realist period
Not saying other dimensions don't exist - just saying that today there is no verifiable proof


p.s. I also bear in mind that Jules Verne was science fiction .......
That came to fruition



Last edited by Vick at Jan 16 2003, 11:46 AM

Vick, what would constitute "verifiable proof" for you?

If we build a mathematical model of the Universe that depends on say 10 dimensions and that model predicts we will find particles at such and such a specific energy and then we build a very energetic particle collider and find a particle at exactly that energy, would that constitute verifiable proof?

General Relativity was "verified" in such a way. The theory made predictions regarding the position of a star during an eclipse that differed from what one would expect using classical mechanics. Thereafter the model was thought to be superior to classical mechanics.

Anyway, this is where we are in physics. Trying to deduce the nature of the universe not through some sort of direct observation ("Look, a 5th dimension!") but rather through deduction, prediction, and observation of that prediction.

Note to self: don't lend Colin books if you ever want to see them again.... :P

In this case models are predictions and theories built on those models are still conjecture but if particles were found based on the example you give that can be considered

However there are more circumstances involved with that model, some of which are beyond my grasp

Verifiable proof - how about the same as a US court of law, beyond a reasonable shadow of a doubt
Or even sending "something" (animal, pencil, energy particle as you suggest, anything) into these "other dimensions" - and having them return

Again not saying they don't exist
Saying there is no proof and at this point discussion about other dimensions is theory and speculation


and of course I don't have Colin's grasp of physics so am being the doubting Thomas :P



Last edited by Vick at Jan 16 2003, 12:07 PM

Vick,

Do you believe in atoms? Why or why not? How about quarks?

Colin - do YOU (or anyone) have verifiable proof of other dimensions?


he he he - the old trick - keep asking your worthy opposing opinion questions

Good try at the save, Colin. I'll be sure not to insert my silly posts in the middle of intellectual conversations anymore. Sorry to bother you, heqdvd.

Well, again. I am not sure what you mean by "verifiable".

For the record though, none of the multi-dimensional* theories presented to date correctly and fully predicts the elementary particles. They do get pretty damned close though. So either we ALMOST have a correct multi-dimensional theory or we are just wrong. Place your bets.


*Take your pick. There are 6, 10, 11, and 26 dimensional models.

Hey if Voodoo can get laid, anything is possible!!

I think we can get many things done, I have been amazed just in the past 32 years of my life.

But I am still a skeptic.

Me too. Everything I ever hear is followed mentally with "but ... " or "what if ...".

One learns more by playing devil's advocate than by blind acceptance.

How does this person know this? Why do they say that? Where did they hear that? What are this person's biases? These are a few of my favorite things.

.. and my biggest disappointment in that time: Where's my fucking flying car?

"I did not have relations with that woman" - "Can you define what you mean by sex"? he he he

Ok, take the word verifiable out of the sentence - is there any proof other dimensions exist?


Next thing I've been pondering lately - the possible existence or non existence of a god, devil, heaven or hell - by anyone's definitions


So far I'm at the no proof stage of the deliberation - basically all religion is the same as Greek mythology - superstition to explain what can not be explained or understood
Beyond that the only powers I am finding in any religion is faith, the faith invested in the idols of any given religion is what gives those idols and or believers any power they may have


To try to get proof have considered going ghost hunting
If I can find ghosts that would be proof of a life energy ?

Vick, I stick to the above.

And also now - the below ...

"none of the multi-dimensional* theories presented to date correctly and fully predicts the elementary particles. They do get pretty damned close though. So either we ALMOST have a correct multi-dimensional theory or we are just wrong."

So for my tastes, no. Now, if someone can work some mathematical magic on an x-dimensional model of the Universe and predict all the elementary particles that we observe today - and maybe a few we have to go looking for - then *I* would consider that to be proof. Would you agree with that?

Dimensions...I have no idea....

But as far as time travel, wasn't it Einstein that ran the test with the train, mirror, poles and electricity? The Theory of Relativity? Time is relative.

He basically proved that the faster you go, time slows down, and he suggests that if you hit a certain speed (speed of light?) time will stop. If you go faster than that speed you will actually start going backwards in time.

I guess that is one of the reasons astronauts who have been in space actually live .5 seconds or whatever 'earlier' than everyone else. More easily understood, I guess it just means it made them younger.

So technically, we could go back to being children if we went fast enough. BUT, everyone else would still be stuck in 'real time'. When we 'returned', would it be just US who have gotten younger? Or would the entire planet reverted back in time too? Wouldn't the entire world have to move that fast though?

If there is a hint of real time travel here, I guess it would be impossible to move forwards in time though....you'd have to stand still? hahaha

BUT...never say never.... :awinky:

I agree with Heather, there is so much more out there than my logical mind can see. If you were a bird, would you be able to comprehend cars? Computers? Nope. But they do exist.

As I am reading through this thread I found quite a few comments that fell right into line with my thoughts...Anything is or will be possible.

I guess the only way to sum it all up is to recommend a book of short stories by Philip K Dick. There is a story called "The Commuter" An average man becomes god due to a hole in the wall that separates two parallel timelines.

For any of you that might not know his work, he wrote the short story "We can remember it for you wholesale" which later became the movie Total Recall. And just recently another movie frome one of his shorts Minority Report.

Not sure if anyone heard this about a year ago but scientists were able to make the same atom appear in two places at the same time. It was only worthy of a small blurb in the Human Interest section of the paper...sad...

I think you would have to make a lot of assumptions.

I believe!

I remember before the web I use to tell people about it. I'd paint these elaborate pictures and they'd say, "No fucking way... it's a fad like Laser Disk & it can't happen."

As far as more esoteric concepts… yes I do. Not all, most.

Hey did anyone check out the press on the International Car Show? Who would have ever imagined that a car could go 400 mph??

Call it energy, life energy...whatever you like....'energy' is already proven to exist. Also, it's a proven fact that energy never dies...it only transforms.

Take for example electricity. From the dam to the plug in your house, through your lamp and into the light bulb. The energy of water has now been transformed into light. And as you know light goes on forever....

That part is not correct. If something travels faster than the speed of light the time dilation becomes imaginary, not negative. That has no meaning. The equation is not meant to handle speeds greater than c.

There is another solution to the equations where objects can ONLY go faster than the speed of light (never slower). The tachyon particle has been proposed that might travel faster than the speed of light but not slower. No one has found one. It is not necessarily true that there is one. It's just that it is a correct mathematical solution. This solution is analogous to the square root of 4. There are two solutions, 2 and -2. You might have a problem where the answer only makes sense as +2 though.

Special relativity tells us that as one approaches the speed of light one needs more and more energy to consider to accelerate. For an object with mass to reach the speed of light barrier requires more energy than exists in the entire Universe.

The theory of special relativity is actually very simple and anyone with a high school math background - just a little algebra acually - can play with the equations. General relativity though is an entirely different beast.



Last edited by Colin at Jan 16 2003, 01:48 PM

I feel I should add to my last post that I'm not saying 'ghosts' exist.....just that it is possible that they do.

No one really knows what happens to our energy when we die....but SOMETHING does happen....and I think 'ghosts' are an easy way for people to understand it because the concept of 'ghosts' sort of personifies 'afterlife existance'.....just like the personification of God....it makes it much easier to people to relate....

it wasnt an atom, it was a beam of light.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2049048.stm

this was all over the news when it happened. i think that these type of things are not really significant when people cannot relate to it, or when it has no clear application that will affect or more importantly, improve lives.

the details of this experiment is pretty much impossible to understand without a solid grasp of quantum physics.

They don't go backwards in time. They go forward in time slower than someone that stays on Earth.

Special Relativity deals with time dilation as it is caused by speed. Travel faster, time goes slower.

General Relativity deals with time dilation as it is caused by the warping of space-time. Time ticks slower near more massive objects.

As far as I know, the only trick anyone has been able to think of regarding going backwards in time requires travelling through wormholes in space that connect to other parts of the Universe through a backdoor. (basically). At least that is the most popular such idea. Kip Thorne at Cal Tech is into this.

[/b][/quote]
Thanks for that Colin....it's been a long time since I read up on it...interesting...you mean 'imaginary' in the sense that we don't KNOW what happens??