The biggest difference between the business now
 

and back when I started in 1996/1997 is this...

In 1996 the vast majority of people involved in this games ambition was to make millions a year , minimum 250k a yr.

Now the vast majority ambition is to make beer money or just around the same as they could make at a "real" job.

It is a major difference in mindset.

Was brought up in a phonecall earlier and thought I'd throw it out there...

Re: The biggest difference between the business now
 

Not to knock you. I tend to agree with you.

But that said, much of what you're saying has to do with boards talk.

We both know that people who made tons of money either:
- still are, but are silent about it
- still are, but don't post, but have others post for them
- out of it, retiring on it, spending it and reinvesting the capital so they can maintain it
- still are, and keep coming out with new products or "version 20" or whatever
- aren't likely to come around and post how they did it, how a newbie can increase it, etc.

The beer money webmasters are still the posters. Not saying everyone who posts is only making beer money, saying though all of those webmasters do post and are the great majority of the posters (talking about across the dozens of boards).

Re: The biggest difference between the business now
 

No I think it has been taken to extremis to be honest.

There always was the guys just killing time etc etc

But in all honesty nowadays I feel there is no point in posting things I know will make money or improve the money someone makes.

For example you criticise Zeinna site and she gets all cunty...

She does not realise that she has had a wealth of experience in various fields giving her blunt advice....she takes it as everyone is "dissing" her rather than accepting it as a hard time lacking short but sweet criticism.

In all seriousness if she had handled the situation well , argued her way out of it...had a better attitude and basically impressed when she had the opportunity ,I'd have more confidence in sending traffic to her.

And I think she would have got way more traffic impressing 5 readers of this board than having her hand patted and being told "don't listen to the nasty men" on another board....

Its a change in peoples attitude over the years.

I think ...in fact I know... a lot of old school players read this board...

However they don't want to chime in on business because:

a.) no fucker listens..
b.) they will get in a moronic piss with someone without a clue
c.) there comments will be lost in the 100 "great programs" , "Awesome" "congratulation" posts...

As for the advertising they see here...

They come to Oprano because it is the old school board...no spin..

If a sponsor comes on and argues there cash explains why there program is better than an other...states mailer contact us for deal...etc etc

Some might sign up for programs that advertise here...but honestly...most are not gonna be persuaded to sign up for an Ipod , nor are they gonna want bimbettelucy of wankercash as their affiliate rep LOL.

For myself I would be more tempted to signup for a program that seemed professional and smart and on the ball...

A lot of what makes me decide where to send traffic is on what they don't say...the parties they don't throw...etc etc...weird?

Maybe I am.. LOL

But seriously treating Oprano as GFY from a sponsors point of view will never yield the rewards here.

I think it takes a different approach to land an old school whale....

Sorry in a thoughtful mode tonight.. :)

Re: The biggest difference between the business now
 

This is the best damn thread I have read in quite some time.

Zeina could have learned alot as Nick said if she would have handeled herself
differently, HOWEVER, She is content. At the end of the day, she is the one who can get traffic to her site, but alot depends on the webmaster doing her site also.

On a whole I think both of you have valid points though.
If anyone doesnt think this biz has changed over the years
just attend a show, thats proof enough. Instead of people hanging
out talking biz, everyone is to busy trying to get laid and see who
can out drink everyone else on the beer money that they saved up
by doing TGP's.

Re: The biggest difference between the business now
 

how come no one suggested that I manage Zeina's site?

Nick, I would've given you % as a referral. :)

Re: The biggest difference between the business now
 

I'm pretty sure she wants to make SOME money.

;)

Re: The biggest difference between the business now
 

I'd be her biggest customer. :)

Re: The biggest difference between the business now
 

I have never and probably will never attend a show. One came to New Orleans a few years ago and I didn't even bother going. People said they go and that I should go for the networking, from what I see and hear there's hardly any networking going on at all.

I am not in this to make beer money(see my sig) The money I do make, which is probably pocket change to a lot of people here, supports my family and allows me to do some of the things that I wouldn't be able to do if I had a "real" job.

I'm not rich, yet, but if I continue on the path that I am currently on I will be almost there, and rich to me doesn't take much. If I can get my sites producing 25k or more a month, that's all I need. Of course I wouldn't turn down more, but for me to live a luxurious life, I think that's all it would take with the right planning and investing.. :)

Re: The biggest difference between the business now
 

Biggy,

Your in NY or Penn, there are women running around there that make her
look average. Just get out of your house and meet some of them.

Damn, listen to me, Mr. Single!

:(

Re: The biggest difference between the business now
 

Such a good point, just to make sure it doesn't get lost in the shuffle, I'll ask this. Loudly.

Yo! People with sponsor/affiliate programs ...

Answer me this (if you have the actual balls to do so honestly) ...

You niche your programs, you niche your banners, you tell your affiliates to niche, you tell your affiliates to treat each site differently that they have, to appeal differently depending upon the surfer hitting their sites, their gallieries, correct? Correct.

Therefore

Why are you such dumbasses that when it comes to boards and resources you

target them all the exact same way???

Re: The biggest difference between the business now
 

I am here to make millions ££££
not there yet, and if it doesnt look like i will by end 2006 i am out and doing something that will

NOT interested in going to meetings and socialising with anyone
I have enough friends thanks

"Its not personal its strictly business"

Re: The biggest difference between the business now
 

i love beer money
wish i could make more beer money

will beer money get me laid ??

Re: The biggest difference between the business now
 

This is an excellent thread. I think the main difference between "then" and "now" is that the people making the coin keep it to themselves, back "then" people bragged and posted bank statement scans. Why, I've no idea... maybe it was to elbow their way to the top of the pile.. I'm not sure.

I do know that if I was making massive amounts of money these days, I'd sure as hell be keeping tight lipped about it, why the hell would I want everyone and their dog snooping around trying to find out how I'm making money...


As for affiliate programs, I'm more than guilty of being one of those "way to go" cheerleaders... it's hard not to be when they're a sponsor of Oprano. But goddamn it's mind numbingly boring checking out the same cookie cutter programs out there...

It's been along time since I saw a program the stood out from the crowd, in fact I think the only program to even slightly impress me lately has been Jayman's - mainly because they've chosen to specialise in certain areas, rather than cover every niche with cookie cutter sites...


I'm not really sure where I was going with this so I'm just going to stop and think about it for a while :unsure:

Re: The biggest difference between the business now
 

I was thinking of a name change to bimbettelucy, but it sounds like that might be a bad idea. Perhaps hawthanna instead.

Re: The biggest difference between the business now
 

I'm honestly not following you on this post.

Can you explain how boards are targeted the same way?

Re: The biggest difference between the business now
 

I think he means

Each board a sponsor advertises on gets:

The exact same banners
The exact same sticky threads
The exact same message

Rather than the sponsor customizing their message out to match the population of the board.

I think :)

Re: The biggest difference between the business now
 

WHERE'S THE CREDIT FOR THIS QUOTE YOU BASTARD!!!

:)

Re: The biggest difference between the business now
 

Okay, that helps me understand it better. Thanks, sarettah. :)

I can't speak for anyone else, nor do I speak for JaYMan Cash as a whole. I speak about my role in it.

But I don't try to give the same message at every board I post on. Matter of fact, I do try to gear my posts toward the board of record. ie, I never start football threads on Netpond. I do on other boards. I don't post about Raven's newest pic set on the tranny board I post on. I don't post about the size of my last turd here, I do that on GFY.

Actually, I don't do that on GFY, but if I was going to post a post of that nature, that would be the board for it. :D

I do see what you are saying (if sarettah's interpretation is correct, that is) and agree. Anything done by sponsors on boards is marketing, and marketing should be targeted for best results.

Re: The biggest difference between the business now
 

Os,

You are more old school than you think. I've known plenty of webmasters that never make it to the shows and make a very good living at this.

25k a month is nothing to sneeze at, and is a great goal.

Re: The biggest difference between the business now
 

Good discussion going on here....

Re: The biggest difference between the business now
 

The change did not just happen, it started around 2000.

Re: The biggest difference between the business now
 

Believe it or not, during the phone convo, that date was thrown up.

It seems to coincide with how many places were starting to help Newbies. It's come to the sad fact that today's newbie expects everything handed to them.

The difference between now and then?

There's a thread on GFY right now, asking "How many posts does it take to become an established webmaster".

That's a fucking joke right there.

Re: The biggest difference between the business now
 

Sorry Ant lol.

But it did get me thinking

Sarettah and Drav explained what I meant.

and as for this..........

"How many posts does it take to become an established webmaster".

Jesus H. Christ. LOL

I'll just grab some coffee and be back...

Re: The biggest difference between the business now
 

That's what gets me a lot of times..

Hey, I'm a newbie. Sponsor, I want Free hosted galleries, I want text links and descriptions, I want free content, I want you to host my free sites..wait, hell with that, I want you to build some Free Hosted Free sites and linklists with my ref code in them because even though I want to be king of the net I don't want to have to learn HTML and while you're at it why don't you prepay me for the 100 joins a month that you are going to send to yourself in my name.

Oh, and send me a laptop and an ipod while you're at it.

And don't you dare shave me, because then I will bad mouth your name on every board I can find because you are taking away from all my hard work.


As far as number of posts to become an established webmaster......lolololololololololololol.....

That's the best one I've heard in a while...lolololol...

On GFY, to become an established webmaster figure 1000 posts unless you creatively attack the right playa or have a bunch of shills come in and vouch for you in which case you can become established in under 100 :okthumb:

Re: The biggest difference between the business now
 

Not to beat a dead horse, but if Zeina actually could take constructive criticism, and not take it personally, she could have increased her bottom line.

It's never made any sense to me why people want to be more popular on boards than make more money.

Just in this thread alone, we have the man who started the single girl site niche, some big traffic guys, a few guys who liked to hit the send button, all who have had paysites, and know what converts. But all the comments made by us were pushed aside due to their "negative" nature, for the happy, your rock posts by tgp gallery makers.

It's sad.

Re: The biggest difference between the business now
 

First, Sarettah, yes you were 100% on the mark as what I was getting at (based on Nick's comments.)

Selena, I have to agree that you get high marks on understanding the nature of boards and proceeding differently on each and not posting identical posts (as many marketers I've seen on here and elsewhere do, and think they're actually doing their job.)

That said, and just to be a minor ball-breaker, if your banners where directed at whales, and the refer code went to a whale-specific page for Oprano, that would be better still. Not singling you out, as again, no sponsor does this.

But yes, an IPod giveaway banner on GFY, pushing a free-hosted TGP on GG&Jims, whale banner on Oprano ... such things are just the start of where sponsors should have long ago gone. But mostly, maybe totally -- with the exception of some of their marketing personnels posts -- everyone gets the same spiel, the same banner, and every adult webmaster place, each with it's own distinct flavor, has up to now been treated identically. Cookie-cutter, no-brains "marketing". Phewy!

Re: The biggest difference between the business now
 

It is obvious but no program actually targets each board in a different way.

Re: The biggest difference between the business now
 

Thank you for the compliment :)

And please, feel free to break my balls anytime. On this issue, or any other. I like to learn, and I especially like to learn about things that might make me more money. I'm greedy like that.

Please bear with me as I try to riddle out what you mean by "whale specific page for Oprano". My definition of a whale is someone that I'd like to have sign up under me. An uber affiliate.

Is that what you mean when you say whale?

Re: The biggest difference between the business now
 

Yes, a whale specific traffic page would be something that caters to the top half of the surbey found here. http://www.oprano.com/msgboard/showthread.php?t=45012

Basically affiliates you would make "special considerations for" to get their business. :)

Re: The biggest difference between the business now
 

Oh!

Like offering them a date with JaYMan!

Re: The biggest difference between the business now
 

I would judge a whale as someone who can send over 100 joins a day , sustained , to a program.

But that is just my definition.

That would be a sperm whale....there are some that can do 500 a day...they are a Blue Whale..and just as rare.

Re: The biggest difference between the business now
 

Thank you, Nickatilynx :)

I am beginning to see where you all are going with this, and I may steal the notion.

I have to first get JaYMan's approval for me to whore him out though. :D

Re: The biggest difference between the business now
 

Sadly, old friend. Whales are 10 to 20 sales a day nowadays.

The big boys are 50 plus. those are the white ones.

Re: The biggest difference between the business now
 

Call me Ishmael. ... http://oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/smile.gif

Re: The biggest difference between the business now
 

Sucks to be them , I guess ;-)))

Re: The biggest difference between the business now
 

Just out of curiosity I went to GFY to check my post count: 476


See how much time I waste on the boards? Hahaha

Okay, I'm going to put my neck on the chopping block. I WANT honest opinions here: http://www.cryptcash.com and the two sites we have under the program.

What can be done to improve the program/sites in your eyes, and by yours I am speaking in general so anyone and everyone that has an opinion, make it known.

I know what our plans are, but I'm wanting to see what everyone honestly thinks..

Re: The biggest difference between the business now
 

One, you are going niche. The Goth niche is very hot, and if you have models specific to your site, you will do very well.

I can give a surfer review as good looking Goth chicks rock my boat. I'll look around and give you some feedback.

Re: The biggest difference between the business now
 

I'm not into goth chicks..in fact I want to punch them...but that is neither here nor there.

I just realised one of the things I do when I find an unfamilar affiliate program is go I look to see if they list who the people involved are, with a bio.

If they don't I don't join.

I look to see if there is a phone number contact and a physical address that looks like a real office.If there isn't one , I don't join.

My reasoning is it appears they are being run out of a back bedroom somewhere.

Would you trust someone who you have no info about , who seem to be undercapitalised to owe you 50k? I wouldn't.

Also I don't and will not join a Rev Share program.Most whales won't unless they know the person well.

If I see Rev share solely ( No paypaersignup option) I again suspect the program is undercapitalised.

Just some general thoughts..

Re: The biggest difference between the business now
 

Our goal from the start was to go niche. We thought about branching out a few times into shit like weird bondage and stuff, but we really want to stick to our original plans. Which is why we're still stuck at two sites.

I'm the type of person that if I'm going to do something, I want it done right. I don't want to just up and buy a bunch of shitty content to open more sites that probably won't do well. I want to make sure the content we get to make future updates and to open more sites is top notch shit that will sell. We have a few domains that we're dying to develop, but will not until I know for sure we can get the content we both need and want.


I did have plans for alternate tours, but I refuse to build more sites with the same damn content so it's going to sit dormant until I get what I want.


Feedback would be excellent! I think we're about to make a run out to the health food store and to pick up some other crap for around the house. I'll be back to participate in a few hours, probably more hours then I want to be out. When we go out we seem to get lost! Hahaha

Re: The biggest difference between the business now
 

Excellent post.

You're spot on about the way that some individuals interpret criticism. I shook my head in disbelief when I read some of Zeina's comments. FFS, what do people honestly expect when they ask for comments, even in some cases adding, "whether good or bad", and then get uppity when someone does precisely that ?

Recently in my day job I got to work with a guy who had previously been a very senior member of an international consultancy. Needless to say the guy had a reputation as being extremely difficult to work with. In spite of this I accepted the assignment that was offered, and worked alongside him for 16 months. Was it fun ? Some of it yes, but for the most part no. And the reason ? Because for 16 months I got to see how I measured up against someone who had been there, done it, and done it well enough to start up his own company that was making money. And yep, that meant for the most part I had my work shredded on a daily basis, and dismissed as being poor and/or inferior.

When I tell people about this, they always say sympathetically, "God, you must have hated working for that wanker". My answer ? Nope, I not only enjoyed it (as much as possible), but I benefitted from it immensely. The standard of my work increased dramatically, so much so that my day job career is now looking rosier by the minute. And that is basically because I didn't run away with hurt feelings the first time someone said to me, "You know what Dom, my five year old could have produced better work that this ?"

It's for this same reason that on and off Trev and Morgan have been helping me with various aspects of my adult work. I don't just want to have my work shredded - I recognise that as a newcomer it is vital, and that unless my stuff can stand up to scrutiny from you chaps, I might as well pack up and go home.

And yes, I studied essay based subjects at college :okthumb: