I think we've lost something in the modern western first world. Jamaicans are much friendlier than Americans or Europeans. Everywhere I went, locals started conversations with me. This was not just true in the tourist areas. Some of us took a 1 1/2 hour ride into the mountains and walked up the falls. We met many locals along the way at roadside stands selling jerk chicken, convenience items and the ever ubiquitous ganja shack. Everyone everywhere was much friendlier and open in starting conversations - even if it was as simple as a "yeah, man". People seemed to be genuinely happier too. After I arrived back in the US I was standing next to a lady waiting for an elevator to pick up our cars. I almost started a conversation with her and then realized I was back in the USA. Shut up, get in and stare at the LED that tells us what floor we are on. Can I get off now?

Jamaicans spend a lot of time outdoors. You see people standing or sitting outside their homes and they seem to be more in contact with their neighbors than we are. There's also more of a barter society which might also contribute to the increased contact and friendliness with neighbors. We in the first world have an impersonal trip to a large grocery store or mall where many of us can't even be bothered to say hello to the cashier.

Maybe part of it is that so many Jamaicans aren't trying to be better than their neighbors. "One World". "Respect, man".

No one in Jamaica is in a hurry either. Slavik and I went to a jerk chicken shack on the beach at 1pm. There were just a few other customers. We didn't leave until 3pm. We received our chicken about 2:45, I think. After a few days you actually start to relax. There's always a nagging feeling that you are wasting time though. Jamaica is in a different time zone. Slow Standard Time.

We first worlders used to have friendlier relations with our neighbors. It used to be that when you moved into a new neighborhood that your neighbors would come greet you and make you feel at home - maybe even bake you an apple pie. Many of us now only wave at our neighbors on our way to work. That's as friendly as we get. What happened? Now we have enough in-home entertainment and conveniences that we don't need our neighbors. Neither for leisure nor out of necessity.

Well, at least most of us have large indoor living spaces, air conditioners and big screen TVs.

Colin i dont think thats just refelection of the States, it happens everywhere i think, the only places it dont happen is tourism orientated areas like Negril:)

Don't take it personal, Colin,
but for some reason you reminded me an old Arab story.

There was a blind man, who was blind since the day he was born.

He prayed Allah every day and one day Allah granted him his wish,
he made him see, but only for 5 seconds.

When blind man got his vision, he saw a donkey and went blind back again.

From that moment on,
every time somebody was telling how beautiful something was,
the blind man asked:
"is it as beautiful as donkey"?

The story is over 1000 years old......

LOL good story Serge:)

CRIME: Crime, including violent crime, is a serious problem in Jamaica, particularly in Kingston. While the vast majority of crimes occur in impoverished areas, the violence is not confined. The primary criminal concern of a tourist is being a victim of theft. In several cases, armed robberies of Americans have turned violent when the victims resisted handing over valuables. Crime is exacerbated by the fact that police are understaffed and ineffective. Therefore, tourists should take their own precautions and always pay extra attention to their surroundings when traveling, exercise care when walking outside after dark, and should always avoid areas known for high crime rates. As a general rule, valuables should not be left unattended, including in hotel rooms and on the beach. Care should be taken when carrying high value items such as cameras, or when wearing expensive jewelry on the street. Women's handbags should be zipped and held close to the body. Men should carry wallets in their front pants pocket. Large amounts of cash should always be handled discreetly.


http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_p.../cis_1147.html

"Jamaicans spend a lot of time outdoors."

That is what no air conditioning and 90 degree weather will do :awinky:

(But, I get your point)

Meat, you were skim-reading.

Kingston is supposed to be bad.

I walked everywhere in Negril - at night, by myself, etc. Felt really safe and met a lot of locals along the way. Seemed safer than a lot of Miami areas I've been to (Little Haiti and Little Havana). So many people warned me to be careful even in Negril. My experience was completely the opposite. I would be more concerned in New York or Chicago.

negrils income comes from Tourism, any country in the world that needs tourism to prosper "understands" the need to be nice to tourists, its when you get out of the tourist area that you get a true reflection of where you are and what the people are like.

Don't take it personal, Colin,
but for some reason you reminded me an old Arab story.

There was a blind man, who was blind since the day he was born.

He prayed Allah every day and one day Allah granted him his wish,
he made him see, but only for 5 seconds.

When blind man got his vision, he saw a donkey and went blind back again.

From that moment on,
every time somebody was telling how beautiful something was,
the blind man asked:
"is it as beautiful as donkey"?

The story is over 1000 years old...... [/b][/quote]
It was a nice 5 seconds.

I don't know about any donkeys. We bought a goat for $150 and tried to bring it into the hotel to shave it. They don't want us back at that hotel again.

"Nothing good can come from messing with a goat, man".

True story

Meat,

You keep talking about tourist areas and Negril. I've said three times now we didn't just stay in Negril and visit tourist areas. We travelled maybe 80 miles from Negril into the mountains and met many locals in small towns along the way. They were even friendlier than in Negril. Not just shop-owners but everyday people out and about in small towns with nothing to directly gain from being friendly.

Here in the US we've had a change in the past century. This has also happened elsewhere in the world, no doubt. We've become a less neighborly society. People don't know their neighbors in the way that they used to. It's a well-documented cultural phenomenon. Some good books that include analysis of the subject are "Bowling Alone" by Robert Putnam and "The Death and Life of Great American Cities" by Jane Jacobs. Also some of Francis Fukuyama's work is very good. These authors all tackle the subject from different viewpoints. Jacobs discusses urbanization and its negative effects on community. Fukuyama discusses large-scale effects in society such as social capital. Putnam discusses the fall of community involvement as a result of more full-time employees, the rise of television and mass media and its effects. His book is a great read on the subject. I think to reduce all of this to "tourism" is absurd.

I used to live in orlando. There's a LOT of tourist areas and the people that live in those areas are NOWHERE NEAR as friendly and talkative as Jamaicans. There's a cultural difference. I don't think the answer in Jamaica is to compare tourist areas with non-tourist areas. That was not my experience at all. I'd say it is to compare a large urban overcrowded area with rural and small-town living combined with cultural differences as mentioned above. I would guess that some of the same changes that the above authors discuss at length are no doubt taking place in the urban sprawl of Kingston too.

That's how I feel about Cancun.... I have never met so many polite people. The service was laid back, but still good.

Even in the flea markets there is no begging (I did experience that in Negril) They all worked at one liners to get you in their store - but, would always close with - "have a good afternoon"..... or something similiar. Their English is a little better there too. The open sale & use of drugs on the beaches bothered me in Negril. No wonder they are so happy:-) But, of course if you are into that - I suppose it's heaven! As a woman alone - I did not feel safe when being approached by strangers - but otherwise it was a beautiful paradise, and I was very comfortable with the atmosphere. (as long as you put any type of schedule behind you)

Excessive consumption of Red Stripe beer

I grew up in the South - I have to say most of us are friendly, a wee bit too talkative and we'd be more than happy to sit down and have a nice big glass of sweet iced tea with you :)

I remember my first trip to NYC and I was amazed at the rudeness. With more and more Yankees infiltrating our friendly areas (sorry Vooman :P ) I've really noticed people not being as friendly in ATL as they used to be. My girlfriend moved to Chicago about 15 years ago and always got her "friendly fix" when she came home. A few years ago she noticed the change :(

That's one of the reasons I moved to the hills - we're all still nice up here and I can't remember the last time I went to a store, grocery, pharmacy, etc. and didn't have a nice conversation with someone, had the door opened for me, waved to if I let them into traffic, etc.

It all depends on where you are B)

a buddy of mine got mugged in jamaica...he went outside to buy some weed for everyone...went into the forest a bit, and they made him strip..he walked back into the bar in just his boxers..lol

Here a little story that happened to me that I love....



It was a sunday afternoon last summer, 3-4pm, something like that...

Im coming back from a friend's place who lives about 50 miles away. A minute of two after getting on the highway, all the cars come to a dead stop... As far as I can see, the cars are stopped and not moving, or inching....

So we stop and wait a couple minutes, but since Im on my motorcycle, I decide to use the shoulder and go see what's happening up front.

Its a beautiful summer days, 75F, sunny.... But its still a death-jam on the highway....

Feel free to imagine this scene in NYC or on a LA highway.... (gun shots, horns, people trying to force their way through)....

But no, when slowly driving past all the car(a few miles), it was one of the most eerily beautiful scene I had ever seen... People were out of their car chatting with each others, smiling... Kids were playing in the grass across the ditch, I saw some people meditating. It really felt like one huge picnic with 100's of people who didnt know they were invited but making the most of it.... No yelling, no people stressing in there car eating the steering wheel... Just a wonderful happy and friendly atmosphere...

It might sound stupid, but thinking about that really gives me hope for humankind.... And its one of the reason I love Québec.

And hence why I'll see you in the early summer. :)

Awesome story.

May I take the liberty of correcting one matter of fact.

Where Dr.Guile says "motorcycle" please read "scooter".

He tells everyone he rides a motorcycle to appear cool. ;-)))

Yes, that's my main concern in life!


Oh please, love me, validate me!


(This post brought to you by Pushpills)

Interesting perspective...

I grew up in Brooklyn, New York. Bay Ridge to be exact... while NYC is definitely not the friendliest place on earth, I always smiled and said hello to people and found that they did the same... As long as I went first. LOL

I moved to Pennsylvania to get out of the big city, and while the scenery was beautiful, I found the people to be rude, ignorant, and downright nasty with no desire to be anything more than that. And they bitched about New Yorkers... haha

Obviously, while Peaches says Atlanta isn't what it used to be, it's been a nice change for me. But here is something I have become very aware of in the last year or so:

I have found that people respond or react to others based on mood. I think that the "vibes" you give off have a lot to do with how people behave around you. I don't think it's a conscious thing either. You can think I'm crazy if you like, but I have seen it in action too many times to be able to discount it. :)

You are exactly right Voo - action & reaction! You often like or dislike people by the way they make you feel or react.

Some people just light up a room when they enter & others subdue it.

I have always been able to go to places that some might think scarey - but when I put on my 'touch me and your dead reserved attitude - nobody bothers me.

My girlfriend is one that 'lights up the room. About everyone I know loves to be around her, because she has a way of making them feel good about themselves.

Oh, I definitely think people respond to cues from other people. Don't worry, be happy.

reading this thread brings one thought to mind..



"Marijuana is one helluva drug"


:lol:

That can be taken two ways. I'll take it the good way. ;-)

That can be taken two ways. I'll take it the good way. ;-) [/b][/quote]
the way it was meant:)

Then they would have been nice to me in NYC :awinky:

But I do agree - 99% of the time when I'm friendly, I get friendly back. And you know me, I'm always the first to strike up a convo. But damn those New Yawkers!! :grrr:

My thoughts exactly :P

There is such a thing as being too friendly.

It's about reading the body language and whether someone is really looking for a conversation or not.

I know most of the time if I get on an elevator, I could really give a rat's ass about what someone who I'm only going to know for that 10 second ride thinks about the weather outside today.

I wont be rude if someone does start a conversation like that however.

Some of us are just introverted. I find it hard to approach someone and start a conversation, I'm more likely to let them come to me. And I'm even more likely to just listen until I get to know someone and get more comfortable around them.

I dont think extroverts understand introverts and shy people and sometimes construe the quietness as being being rude or whatever.

Then there are a LOT of introverts in NYC. :awinky:

I usually just smile on an elevator but if I'm standing in line for 20 minutes, I'm going to strike up a conversation. If I'm brushed off, I'll shut up....eventually :P The biggest problem I have is that I'd RATHER not talk on the airplane, but I hate being rude if someone starts up first - unless it's someone I know.

Then there are a LOT of introverts in NYC. :awinky:

I usually just smile on an elevator but if I'm standing in line for 20 minutes, I'm going to strike up a conversation. If I'm brushed off, I'll shut up....eventually :P The biggest problem I have is that I'd RATHER not talk on the airplane, but I hate being rude if someone starts up first - unless it's someone I know. [/b][/quote]
Airplanes are pure hell.

I'd rather have a root canal than sit next to someone who wants to dump their life history on you on an airplane.

As for elevators, I normally just grin and say "that's right, it was me!"

I know what that means!

The routine changes if there's more than 2 people on the elevator.

If you squeeze cheese on a crowded elevator and some lady gives you a dirty look, just look right back at her and say "that's right lady, look at me, and try to make 'em think *I* did it...damn, what the hell did you eat anyway?"

I get what you're saying... things have changed - and it's pretty fucked up. When I was growing up (mid-70's) we DID bring new neighbors a pie, or some sort of home-made gift, to welcome them to the neighborhood. We had block parties every year and everyone made an effort to get along - whether it was the noisy house with all the cars on blocks at the end of the street that annoyed everyone the other 364 days of the year, or if it was the Catholic family with 11 kids that always seemed to be in everyone's yard at any given time - we were neighbors and that MEANT something.

Today - living in another state mind you, and California to boot - I don't see ANYTHING resembling a "neighborhood" feeling like I experienced growing up in Ohio. Sure, you could argue that CA and OH are millions of miles apart culturally and in many ways I would agree - but the basic foundations of a neighborhood should be *somewhat* at play out here I would imagine. I live in a small but growing desert town - nice manicured lawns, newer homes, kids of all ages and families of all types - but do I know any of my neighbors? Nope. Did anyone welcome us to the neighborhood? Nope. I wave at people, have spoken to the parents of the kids my kids hang out with occassionally (but rarely at best because the communication lines are NOT open there unfortunately - they are all too busy with their lives to know what their kids are doing) and of course we have the typical busy-body neighbor that tries to be in everyone's business. When he comes up to your car on a warm summer evening to shoot the breeze you know it's a fishing trip more than anything neighborly. lol

My best friends are people I work with online and people I grew up with "back home" in Ohio... and my family. We are very close and tight-knit. I'm very lucky to have all the people I have in my life - but would love for my kids to know that feeling of living in a true "neighborhood" where people say hello, actually give a rat's ass about each other and know each other on a first-name basis instead of referring to each other as "the family with the blue car" or "the ones with the shitty lawn."

:(

Kath,

EXACTLY what I've noticed and experienced. Of course it started long ago but I wonder if the World Wide Web has contributed to this even further. Now it is easier to find people online that one has much in common with than in one's neighborhood.

Back in the day, while in the Navy, I was stationed in Bermuda for about 2 years. During that time I mostly lived out in town, so except for the 8:30-4 that I was at work, I lived like the Bermudians around me (except I was a little richer). I noticed pretty much the same thing. The pace of life was much slower, there was no hurry hurry hurry to get things done. At first it bothered the hell out of me. I couldn't understand why the people around me didn't have the same urgency to get today finished with. Later I relaxed and started enjoying the fact that not everything had to get done RIGHT NOW.

After a couple of years of that, I came back home to New York. Whoa. It was a super shock to walk into the rush rush rush of people thinking that everything had to be done by yesterday and they were gonna get it done or die trying.

I much prefer the Island view of life myself.

BTW, just a side note. One of the weird things about Bermuda was that all the locals seemed to hate Jamaicans. Even though Bermuda is nowhere near Jamaica, the Jamaicans that were there wokrked in the hotels and worked cheaper than the Bermudians would work. So Jamaicans (called Jumpups by Bermudians) were Bermuda's nigger in a matter of speaking.

:blink:

I avoid my neighbors like the plague. I bought my townhouse when I was 25 and when I was moving in a woman came over to introduce herself and then asked "what does your husband do?" I mean, there is no way a young, single woman could buy a house right?

I pretty much avoid going to condo meetings because I just dont want to deal with those people. The other night I felt guilty and finally went to one. They spent two hours talking about nonsense. When I was leaving someone asked me if I recently bought my unit and I said no, I bought it 5+ years ago and they said..........OH! I always thought you lived with your parents! Fucking assholes, my next house is going to be on enough land I never have to see ANYONE :)

In Jamaica I saw a guy with an Ethiopia shirt on. Was a little curious about that. When I got back I read this ...

"Rastafarianism is a religious movement that believes that former emperor Haile Selassie of Ethiopia is God incarnate"

It was a nice 5 seconds.

I don't know about any donkeys. We bought a goat for $150 and tried to bring it into the hotel to shave it. They don't want us back at that hotel again.

"Nothing good can come from messing with a goat, man".

True story [/b][/quote]
this would never happen if JR was around....

Oh, god. You're going to end up as the crazy old lady on the hill.

Oh, god. You're going to end up as the crazy old lady on the hill. [/b][/quote]
only if i knock some junky

Oh, god. You're going to end up as the crazy old lady on the hill. [/b][/quote]
I resemble that remark! B)