May 13, 1955 ...
http://www.linkification.com/linked/housewife.jpg



Last edited by Colin at Jun 27 2003, 12:57 PM

I like point 3...

"Be a little gay.............."

ahahahahahahahaha

"Don't complain if he's late home for dinner or even if he stays out all night".

I wonder if these are real.

Exactly!! Make sure when he gets home from a long day's work that you and your gay lover are there to greet him warmly ready to engage in a threesome!! :rokk:

Now I know why my father gets so nostalgic about the 50's. I wonder how true to real life that scene was though.

June Cleaver fantasies rock! She's cooking me a potrast in nothing but high heels and a string of pearls right now..... :groucho:

HAHA, yeah, I've seen that before....amazing eh?

These are the parts that I like the most :

" remember, his topics of conversation are more important than yours and,
be happy to see him "

I forwarded this to my wife.

(I can expect a beating when I get home)

:lol:

A very similar article with almost the same suggestions used to be up on my refrigerator and the Mrs expected to live up to them (as late as 2001-2002)

No this is not a joke, I am very serious

On the other hand I was the sole financial supporter of the family, she didn't have to work outside the home (but chose to work 12-15 hours per week outside the home as a behavior modification technician doing early in home intervention with autistic children because her work was very meaningful to her)

Being a full time homemaker is a SERIOUSLY UNDER APPRECIATED TALENT! - be it a man or woman who is decided to dedicate themselves to being a full time homemaker

We had a much better behaved and mannered society in the 1950's and fewer society/behavior problems when this article was printed
What's that tell you??!!



Last edited by Vick at Jun 27 2003, 03:12 PM

I just love that part! It makes me want to be a man lol

I've seen this posted before, and I completely disagree.

There were TONS of problems both social and personal in the 50's, just as there are now.

The best example I can think of is spousal abuse. It was very prevalent in the 50's and swept under a rug by society. Why? Because the man was the king of the household and could do as he saw fit. It was no one else's business what he did in his own home and to his family.

Compounded with this ideology was the whole idea of 'a woman's place is in the home.' VERY few women worked out of the home. What does this mean? Abused women wouldn't (read: couldn't) leave their spouse due to financial reasons.

Lastly, women wouldn't leave their spouse simply based on societal views on divorced women. You were deemed 'used' and old...not marriage worthy anymore. I mean hey, you couldn't even work it out with your first husband right?

This is just one example...but there are more: drugs, drinking, teenagers, teen pregnancy etc.

The societal issues were there then, just as they are now. They were just seen and dealt with differently by society as a whole.

Having a "much better behaved and mannered society" is all fine and dandy, but only if it were truly sincere....it's like that smile someone puts on for show, when in reality their life is far from happy.



Last edited by gigi at Jun 27 2003, 02:06 PM

gigi - you and I both have large amounts of respect for family and proper upbring

Have to say that I really feel there is a better opportunity for a child to be reared in the most positive possible atmosphere, reach their fullest potential and become a positive contributing member of society when there is a stay at home parent - be it the Mom or Dad

No one can give the same love or caring to your child as you can

and in a very sort of odd way - that is part of what the above posted piece is about


Beyond that where were are the crack addicts in the 50's? Let's not even get into metal detectors in schools in the 00's

and with all due respect to you, we do disagree on much better behaved and mannered society in the 50's as opposed to the 00's
but let me use goofy TV shows as an example - look at the manners that were espoused on shows such as "Leave it to Beaver" or "Father knows Best"

I'm sure your children are like my son and have been taught to be well behaved and mannered but on the whole (and sorry I have no real hard data to back this up) manners and even proper behavior are severely lacking in our present day society

We're the exceptions ... and we know the irony .... we're pornslingers

LOL, this is true Vick....

Yes, my kids are quite well mannered, and I'm told that alot. ;)

I do see your point about television and it's affects on children (and parents for that matter) and I agree. There are many shows out there today I'd never let my kids watch.

I also think it's best for one parent to stay home, but I certainly don't believe that this parent is reflected at all in that piece above.

It shows absolutely no concern for the children's well being, only that of the husband. There is no mention of the children except to make sure they are clean for when your man comes home so they can "play the part" of "little treasures". It also says to keep them quiet. :blink:

You can stay at home, take care of the house, the errands, the children and still be able to tell your husband (or wife for that matter) how your day went, and how you are feeling. It's okay to get pissed off if hubby stays out all night. The kids can let dad know how their day went and jump around the house before dinner time. All of these things are natural, and healthy for everyone.

Alcohol was the drug of choice in the 50's for the most part, my guess is because of it's availablility.

Times change and new circumstances which create problems surface all of the time. IMHO, it would be naive and far too simplistic to put all the blame on a breakdown of morals since the 50's...especially morals that dictate women and children to be second to men.

Sorry, jsut wanted to reply to this:

I agree completely. HOWEVER, do you really think that the piece above would alleviate this problem? If women stayed home and catered to their man (not kids....but man) this would change? I say no way.

I don't understand what the discussion is about.... isn't all of this completely normal?

It would be absurd to think women should act in any other way...

timon, I dont think voodooman is going to appreciate you calling him a woman.

What happened in 2003?

Timon,

Thailand?

I agree with Vick that many of the negative changes we've seen in society the past four decades have roots in the breakdown of the traditional family. That being said, society adapts and it will continue to adapt and it may be that Mother Nature (or human ingenuity) will find a modified solution to the "stay-at-home Mom", go-to-work Dad" family.

There are some measurable quantifiers that show a change in western society during that time including increased crime and lower average academic scores. There have been similar rises and falls in the past.

The women's rights movement increased the independence of women (and self-image, legal status, dignity and respect). It does not come without a cost. There has been some cost to children, to men, and to women themselves. The institution of marriage has changed. Is it better? worse? Probably both. The idea that you stay in a marriage only as long as you wish is enpowering. It is also selfish. The positive effects of both parents in the home seems quite obvious.

Maybe there will be some future societal paradigm that adjusts for this in some unexpected way.

Colin,
Yeah, Right!

What happened in 2003?[/b][/quote]
I may be telling that story in a few weeks


I know the list is a little (or a lot) out there and am sure many of you realize my point is the breakdown of a stay at home parent be it male or female (and to some degree the breakdown of the traditional nuclear family) has changed us and our society

and I don't feel the changes are for the better

But you have to adapt or do the dinosaur, me I'll keep kicking and screaming for having a stay at home parent if at all possible

I happen to think a stay at home parent is a wonderful thing. I grew up in a home with both working parents and i definitely would be/would have been a happier person if I had mom OR dad around.

Our arrangement is pretty traditional, i work all day at the office, my wife takes care of the baby and the house (which includes overseeing the maids and yard people, doing laundry etc..etc). This division of labor (note: division of labor is one of the greatest factors in forward progress, because specialization leads to increased proficiency and effiiciency at the tast at hand) in our household is agreed upon. My wife enjoys the good life, lives in a beautiful home in a great neighborhood, drives expensive cars and in exchange allows me to focus on what I do best which is working at the office on a computer.

I also am the dominant personality and put more thought into issues like politics and finance, accordingly I am head of the household in the decision making department. My wife cooks dinner because if i do it i burn it.

At the same time, I am extremely anti-social and rely upon my wife for so many things in the social arena, making friends, keeping friends, making dates etc..etc..etc.. we rely upon eachother for our individual strengths.

My relationship/view is unpopular with feminists, however I think the key factor that makes our relationship ok is that neither of us think that we are doing this because we *have to*. My wife is very happy not working at an office, and I am very happy getting out of the house and persuing ideas all day.

Just my thoughts on the situation because while obviously that article articulates some terribly ancient and overbearing views of womanhood and makes the man out to be god like (i only want to be called god when in bed ;-) there are some good things that it does point out, things like "dont greet your husband with complaints".. isnt that just common courtesy?

I dont believe in it, but i have a friend named kinky friedman who is a writer and musician.. he wrote a song called "Get your biscuits in the oven and your buns in the bed". Nonetheless he's not real popular with the feminists :D

That's the second reference you've made to something that if I'm right, will make me very, very sad. :(

Vick, like peaches said, sounds like there's something going on that's not-positive. I hope you are ok. Hugs from down under ;-)

Hooper, I'm not sure how any of your friends could call you anti-feminist if you put forward the logical argument you just gave ...

As you've probably guessed, I'm fairly passionate about a woman's right to make choices for her own life - I don't think that means women should be aiming at taking over the roles of men, but at CHOOSING what they want to do with each day of their life.

I went to college with this girl, we both did the same degree, got similar grades, graduated at the same time etc ... when she finished, she started talking about trying to have a baby with her boyfriend - and a year later had her first child. Her choices seemed so foreign to me, as I was making huge leaps in my career & couldn't imagine why any woman wouldn't want to work their ass off to make their own money... i would visit her with ideas of websites she could run from home and make a few extra bucks or ideas to give her a 'life' - until I realized she couldn't imagine her life any other way. Her upbringing was in a very traditional house where what dad says goes - she didn't know (or want) to be anything but a mother & homemaker. We eventually drifted apart because we simply view our path in life differently and ran out of things to talk about.

She now has 2 kids, and the last time I spoke to her she was miserable ... partner didn't pay her any attention, she was bored, lonely and just generally unhappy ...

Sometimes I think I have my views on this subject clear in my mind, and then i talk to someone else and it all changes ... Its confusing as hell being a human being - everything inside us is animal, and yet we have to live by rules imposed for social reasons that go against our very nature.

We have rulebooks for housekeeping at all? Forget the difference between the 50's and the 00's - the 50's were fucked up too, just in different ways - at what point did apes end up with a rule book on housekeeping & taking care of your man?!

Wasn't the only rule supposed to be 'survival of the fittest'?

D'oh - I thought it was "survival of the fattest" :zoinks:

One might hypothesize that the early societies with this "rule book" as part of their tradition were more fit than their competitor societies.

Could you be a little more specific, please? You think the nuclear family you grew up with was ordained by God and any deviance from it is decline?

Could you be a little more specific, please? You think the nuclear family you grew up with was ordained by God and any deviance from it is decline?[/b][/quote]
Leaving God out of it, and leaving some of the silly instructions on the original scan, I think it's safe to say that many of society's problems DO stem from the lack of the nuclear family.

Not to get PD in an uproar :awinky: , but for the last several generations, the government has, by funding and supporting them, encouraged women to have child after child with no man in the family.

As a single mother for the last 19 years, I can tell you that it's NOT easy raising a kid on your own - especially if you're a mother and the child in question is a son. And I only have ONE! Boys and girls benefit tremendously from having strong role models of both sexes and IMHO, there's a subconscious need to have 2 parents. I was VERY lucky that my father, brother, and several soccer coaches offered this to my son. HOWEVER, I honestly still think he missed out by not having a father around.

There are, of course, exceptions to every rule, but the statistics that I've seen in regards to prison inmates, those with drug and alcohol addictions, problem children in school, pornographers (just wanted to see if you were really paying attention, hehehe), etc. point to growing up in a single parent home as a MAJOR problem.

Should all women stop working, sit at home, cook and clean, and cater to their men? Of course not. I DO think that one parent should always be home with a kid, I think daycare sucks (and yes, my son was in several), and I think the family dinner table is important, even if you're eating McD's you grabbed. I also think in this atmosphere of no-fault divorces it's very dangerous for a woman NOT to continue working and/or her education. Back in the 70's, I saw my mother, aunt, and most of my friend's parents who got divorced, put the woman in the unenvious position of trying to find work to support herself and at least half the bills of her kids, after being out of the workforce for 15-20 years.

Whew - I hate thinking this much on a Saturday! :headwall:

Hooper, this is what makes you and your wife very different than the article above. Kudos to you both for this attitude....I agree completely.....as I agree with Vick and his wife....if they both are happy with their choices, that's all that really matters.

CJ,
I have a similar story. My best friend and I have taken very different paths in life. She got her law degree, has no husband (or boyfriend for that matter) no children etc. I on the other hand, was married at 21 and now have 3 children. (with 1 on the way) Our stories differ though, in the sense that she and I are still best friends. We never run out of things to talk about. I've lived vicariously though her while she was attending university, helped her with essays (I'm the english person, she is the math person...lol) and I've really enjoyed the things I've learned along the way. She, lived vicariously through me...learning things about family and children (she was brought up in a very dysfunctional family) watching my successes and failures etc. Both of us have had many ups and downs along our chosen paths, but ultimately I think what keeps us friends on such a deep level is our similar morals and how we view the world.

Good post peaches....I agree. :) Just to add to that, today, it is very difficult to run a family with just one income....hence another reason women need to be out in the workforce, whether they are single or married.



Last edited by gigi at Jun 28 2003, 09:02 AM

Peaches and CJ - much thanks for your concern and well wishes
Really do appreciate it

:)

Hmmm, I don't think that putting it into a two option set of choices is entirely correct either.

There have been, and still are, many places in the world where the community raises the children. Now I don't mean that kids don't have specific homes and people they call Mom and Dad, but rather that the community itself is very close knit, almost to the point that you can substitute any parent in most situations with any kid.

Case in point - the neighborhood that I grew up in. We kids ran basically as a pack, after school, all summer, especially in the summers -- up at dawn, out of the house til dinnertime and then back out til dark fell. The entire neighborhood knew each other -- we had a couple hundred houses in the neighborhood - and while there were certain groups that could be found more often (usually grouped by which end of the neighborhood you lived on) there were times we were all together -- community pool, ballgames, stuff like that.

And believe me, if Johnny's parents told Susie to sit down and behave or stop splashing Jane, or to put a napkin in their lap, etc, you simply did it. If someone accidentally broke a window or something like that, you went and worked it out with the homeowner, to their satisfaction. It's not that your own parents weren't told about your actions, but you didn't sit around and wait on that to happen.

With very few exceptions the kids in my neighborhood turned out to be bright, perhaps brighter than average in school as a group, didn't cause a lot of problems with the law and stuff like that, it was just not the way we did it. Failing a test made you the butt of a joke with your peers, as did bad behaviour -- and God forbid it got back to the other parents that you were acting up, since it didn't take but one or two of them to keep their kids away from you and you'd be out of the whole group...

My neighborhood wasn't comprised of working dads, stay home moms either - it was a mix with more two parents at work than not I think. Alot of the moms timed it so they got home from work about the same time that school got out, but if not, the older brothers and sisters were responsible for watching the youngers ones.

Just some food for thought.

Peaches, if you could go back and do it again, would you change anything? From the way you talk about your son, he sounds like although he may have missed out on a father, he has turned out pretty darn ok. I wish he was a few years older ;-))))

Being that single parent homes are so prevelant these days, its likely that many prison inmates, drug addicts and pornographers are going to be from single parent homes - but there's still just as many problems that come from the traditional nuclear family. You can't assume that just because someone only had 1 parent that they are going to turn out bad ... what about all the single parent children like your son who WON'T (touch wood! lol) end up in jail or addicted to drugs?

You can draw comparisons like ... today there is more crime, more drug addicts and more bad things in society - but there's also a lot more people. The percentages of bad shit haven't necessarily changed, just the numbers.

I know this is a big call, but i'd go as far as to say that many kids who grow up with 1 parent are more likely to turn out ok. I'm drawing this conclusion purely from the people I know around me & yes its a sweeping generalization in the opposite direction - I can think of many examples - KK, peaches & Lisa's kids who you all know are my surrogate children ;-) Those kids have a stack of surrogate aunts and uncles who care a LOT about what happens to them, and who are always there to help. As a result, these kids have many role models - and they are awesome kids - bright, smart, athletic, well adjusted socially etc.

Peaches, using you as an example, you seem to be so switched on as a parent - more so than MANY nuclear family's are ... you sound like your life has revolved around making sure he had the best possible opportunities and although that may have been harder for you, you can't assume it would have been better if a father was around permanently. What if he was a drunk or ..... lots of what if's.

At the end of the day, I don't think that a single parent family causes crime or bad things in society - I think the worst kids come from families where the parents are always fighting and yelling at each other and who are only staying together for the sake of the children. Or from people who get married and have kids because they think that's what they *have to* do.

Yes we have a lot of problems in society, but to blame them on all the demise of the 'perfect' nuclear family, which is a fantasy that NOBODY can actually live up to, is naive ... Instead of assuming that the family of the 50's was perfect, ask your grandmother about her life ... I think it was GiGi who talked about violence against women in those days and that post covered my views on the subject.

Women have much to contribute to society outside of the family, and I'm happy that I got to live in this time instead of the 50's, because I probably would have stabbed my husband with an ice pick :biglaugh:

KK - very few of those neighborhoods exist any longer. We live in a transient world now. I have to admit I've never lived longer than 5 years in any one house since my son was born. Jobs, finances, needing to be closer to family, finding a better school, wanting a bigger/better house/neighborhood - these all put people in motion. Even in my son's incredibly great school district, there were still many more kids coming in and leaving every year than there were when we were kids. My parents DID move a lot because my Dad was with IBM back in the days where if you got a promotion, you moved - I've Been Moved. :) But most of the kids had lived in their houses all their lives and the parents didn't move until the kids moved out. That just doesn't happen now. :( There WEREN'T daycares then. There HAD to be a one-on-one parenting OR babysitting. Now it's 25 on 1 and that one has no interest in the child except their minimum wage paycheck.

CJ - yes, I'd do it differently. I honestly WOULD have gotten remarried. I passed on a few of good one because of my stubbornness and I honestly think a lot of my son's problems DO stem from someone not being around who could dish out some manly punishment. Thankfully, since he's decided to join the Air Force, he'll be getting more of his fair share of that. :awinky: But in reality, as much as I appreciate your compliments, and as much as I think I HAVE done a good job, me, KK, Lisa, etc. are NOT the average run of the mill single mothers. We aren't the ones putting the majority of young women and especially men into society. :(

I know I sound all doom and gloom, and I really don't mean to. There are a lot of GREAT kids out there and a lot of GREAT single parents, but I do think that encouraging single parenthood in the lower economic groups has done a lot to erode the family and subsequently, parts of society.

BTW, CJ - damned if one of my freaking morning glories didn't take root and make a bloom! I'm so proud! All the others died, but this gives me an incentive to get drunk and PLANT MORE! :rokk:

There were daycares back then Peachie, my mom once had a job running one for a friend of hers, occasionally my brother and I would go over there and hang out some summer days since a few kids we knew from school went there. Not my idea of a fun job tho --

I dunno that single parent, two parent, four parent, no parents really makes that much difference. My best friend in high school had been with her mom only for years, and she turned out great, graduated valedictorian, etc. Then we had some kids with two parents that didn't even show up for school half the time much less seem like they would amount to anything.

I think about the time puberty starts kids either go wild or start getting down to the plan. Luckily I've got the latter, it's just amazing how much E's grown up lately -- he's behaving like a gentleman so much of the time now, he's managed to get himself free skating at the hockey rink any time he wants because he's the afternoon ice monitor when they have the daycare kids in... I'm looking thru the door into his room now and it's clean and organized.

Wait a minute, the more I think about it, my son's been abducted and an alien put in his place!

I agree with everything CJ said :-)

you would have stabbed your husband with an icepick too??

:biglaugh:

you would have stabbed your husband with an icepick too??

:biglaugh:[/b][/quote]
If I were a woman? No question about it.

heh

I saw a lot in my kid when he was E's age that I saw in E. HOPEFULLY the military will get mine into shape, lol! If not, then he's doomed. :headwall:

He's brilliant, but w/o a lick of common sense and nothing in his brain that says "If I do this, this will happen". Honest to goodness, he walked in last week with a freaking fish aquarium. He was getting ready to leave on a 2.5 week long camping trip, and then hopefully to boot camp and then who knows where for technical school after that. And he spends $70 on a fish aquarium. :unsure:

He got pulled over on the interstate a few weeks ago for supposedly not using his turn signal. If he gets another traffic ticket he loses his license. He starts telling me the story and it seems he was in the LEFT LANE on 75 South. ANYONE who's driven in Atlanta knows that unless it's rush hour, you're going AT LEAST 15+ miles over the speed limit (which is 65 there) if you're in the left lane. I asked him how fast he was going. He didn't know. Now, if you were in danger of losing your license, WOULDN'T YOU KEEP AN EYE ON YOUR SPEED??!! :o But he was so proud he didn't get a ticket. Oy.

But I digress - Yeah, I know there were daycares. My mom put me in a Mother's Morning Out type place when I was 3 - she never worked a day in her life, but apparently, raising me was too much. I wonder where my son gets it from? :awinky: But the majority of the kids weren't in them. Look around Roswell, Marietta, and Alpharetta - on every corner there's at least 2.

I just think our kids are getting short changed these days. All of them? Of course not. And there are some great kids that completely overcome the odds. But I DO think America has taking "getting away from the family unit" just a wee bit too far in the last 20-25 years and I think it's starting to show in society. :(

Damn! I wondered where Bradley got the prenup ;)