In my 20s, but what has that got to do with anything?[/b][/quote]
and how old are you now?

Serge I love this country as much as you do. I understand that our gov't is far better than the system you came from. But that doesn't mean you should have blind faith in it. Our country is great *because* we have the right to question, the right to speak out without fear of being shot, and the right to change things.

Politicians lie. Gov't is made up of politicians. Blindly trusting the gov't to tell you the truth 100% of the time will make our system no better than Russia's was.[/b][/quote]
true, no arguments from me here...

Just so folks remember what people are actually capable of:

In Guyana 1978, a cult led by Jim Jones chose to commit suicide:

"914 died: 638 adults and 276 children. Some sources say 911 died. Most appear to have committed suicide by drinking a grape drink laced with cyanide and a number of sedatives, including liquid Valium, Penegram and chloral hydrate. Some sources say it was Kool-Aid; others say FlaVor-Aid®. Other victims appear to have been murdered by poison injection."

So, is a group of people led by a charismatic leader capable of killing their children?

most definitely.


http://www.religioustolerance.org/dc_jones.htm


"During the late 1970's, Jones had been abusing prescription drugs and appears to have become increasingly paranoid. Rumors of human rights abuses circulated. As in most high-intensity religious groups, there was a considerable flow of people joining and leaving the group. Tim Stoen, the Temple attorney and right-hand man to Jones left to form Concerned Relatives who claimed that Jonestown was being run like a concentration camp, and that people were being held there against their will. This motivated Leo Ryan, a Congressman, to visit Jonestown in 1978-NOV for a personal inspection. At first, the visit went well. Later, on NOV-18, about 16 Temple members decided that they wanted to leave Jonestown with the visitors. This came as quite a blow to both Jones and the rest of the project. While Ryan and the others were waiting at Port Kiatuma airfield, the local airstrip, some heavily armed members of the Temple's security guards arrived and started shooting. Congressman Ryan and four others were killed; three were members of the press; the other was a person from Jonestown who wanted to leave. 11 were wounded. Fearing retribution, the project members discuss their options. They reach a consensus to commit group suicide. 914 died: 638 adults and 276 children. Some sources say 911 died. Most appear to have committed suicide by drinking a grape drink laced with cyanide and a number of sedatives, including liquid Valium, Penegram and chloral hydrate. Some sources say it was Kool-Aid; others say FlaVor-Aid®. Other victims appear to have been murdered by poison injection. The Guyanese coroner said that hundreds of bodies showed needle marks, indicating foul play. Still other victims were shot. A very few fled into the jungle and survived. The bodies were in a state of extensive decay when the authorities arrived. There was no time to conduct a thorough investigation"

and how old are you now?[/b][/quote]
10 years older.

10 years older.[/b][/quote]
and still in your 20's...

and still in your 20's...[/b][/quote]
I wish. I am a young 32. My youthful good looks are the result of good living!

exactly my point...
the government actions are responcible for your good living,
just say:
Thank you, US Government, and enjoy your life...

I LOVE when my opponents make points for me
;-)))

exactly my point...
the government actions are responcible for your good living,
just say:
Thank you, US Government, and enjoy your life...

I LOVE when my opponents make points for me
;-)))[/b][/quote]
Ha! The government tried to destroy my good looks by sending into combat zones all over the planet. They taxed me, trying to limit how much personal hygiene products I could afford!

I have my stunning good looks DESPITE the government.

All that, and I play a good game of chess.

exactly my point...
the government actions are responcible for your good living,
just say:
Thank you, US Government, and enjoy your life...

I LOVE when my opponents make points for me
;-)))[/b][/quote]
The gov't isn't responsible for his good life - he is. It was his choices that gave him that good life, the gov't didn't choose for him.

He could have chosen to sit on his ass and collect a welfare check that he wastes on beer before he gets home, live in poverty and not have a dime to his name - would that be because of the gov't too? Nope, it's HIS choice.

you are just an INGRATE!
;-)))

and WHO gave him this choice?

and WHO gave him this choice?[/b][/quote]
Thomas Jefferson!! ;)

Thomas Jefferson!! ;)[/b][/quote]
Hehehe :okthumb:

Thomas Jefferson!! ;)[/b][/quote]
is Buff decendant of his slave girlfreind?
;-)))

is Buff decendant of his slave girlfreind?
;-)))[/b][/quote]
He could be the illegitimate love child of Thomas Jefferson and his slave mistress! :)

great, we finally agreed on something in this thread
;-)))

great, we finally agreed on something in this thread
;-)))[/b][/quote]
Even a broken clock is right twice a day!! ;)

It was just a matter of time until you agreed with me! ;))

Even a broken clock is right twice a day!! ;)

It was just a matter of time until you agreed with me! ;))[/b][/quote]
I pride myself on having fkexable mind and ability to listen to the arguments
;-))

now....which side of the family Buff has inhereted his dick from?

This is a $64,000 question
;-)))

I am SO glad you brought that up, JR! Because it is another example of Bush's handy work, and one that CANNOT be defended by saying "it's just Bush after 9/11" as that happened PRIOR to 9/11.

Again, thank you! :inlove:

[/b][/quote]
Er, uh, I believe that Sudan was placed in our seat there before Bush took office...

Take a good long look at the UN; and tell me what you see...an organization dedicated to world freedom, or one aiming at a world socialist (at the least) state.

I only see Buff with the dick of the unknown origin and twice circumsized Labret....

is it me or something really wrong with UN?

The best argument you'll ever find for term limits...

Well, DUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHH....

Why do a couple people want to make it out like the goverment lies and that's the big fucking clue as to why this guy is being held?

First of all, I'm not a liberal.

Secondly, this guy was ARRESTED by the civillian police on US soil for a "material witness warrant".

Last time I checked the Police didn't have authority to capture POWs.

Try reading the whole thread and staying caught up before you pipe up.[/b][/quote]
Oh? What are y'all calling yourselves these days? I don't know where you are; but I would bet that your congresspeople are all Libs...I guess you'd like to be called Progressives or Moderates? You know how I (and an increasing number of Americans) feel about the Socialist side.

Well, DUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHH....

Why do a couple people want to make it out like the goverment lies and that's the big fucking clue as to why this guy is being held?[/b][/quote]
Trust me, I'm from the Government.

Stern said it best this morning
Give Iraq back to Hussein
its a mess, we can't make it right
sure he had mass graves
but its better than what we are doing
He's the only person who can run that country

Oh? What are y'all calling yourselves these days? I don't know where you are; but I would bet that your congresspeople are all Libs...I guess you'd like to be called Progressives or Moderates? You know how I (and an increasing number of Americans) feel about the Socialist side.[/b][/quote]
3rd post in the thread and you're already resorting to Name calling?

Someone who speaks up to defend the constitution and make the government explain itself does not an advocate of socialism make.

I'd say I'm a Libertarian. I generally want less government. I want them to stay out of my business. The government is suppose to work for the people.

A government that respects my rights guaranteed by the Constitution is the only government I want.

The order was to "arrest" the people in Waco, Reno thought they said "roast" them.

This is well documented..

Remember, Richard Prior said that when he was looking for Justice in prison, he found out it was Just Us!

Fight the power..

KC Ill buy you some Malcom X books, maybe you can get something started with the Eskimo's up there.. I find the term Eskimo Pie quite racist!

Demanding that a fellow American Citizen (suspected terrorist or not) gets the rights granted to him by the 5th and 6th amendments is not too much to ask.

3rd post in the thread and you're already resorting to Name calling?

Someone who speaks up to defend the constitution and make the government explain itself does not an advocate of socialism make.

I'd say I'm a Libertarian. I generally want less government. I want them to stay out of my business. The government is suppose to work for the people.

A government that respects my rights guaranteed by the Constitution is the only government I want.[/b][/quote]
Sounds to me like you think they shoud release a guy who actually was conspiring to turn loose a 'dirty bomb' somewhere in this country...I stand by my statement that he should have been shot as a spy. I'll go a little further and say that all these 'enemy combatants' should also be shot as spies, since they weren't wearing uniforms.

I never said they should release him. I think this guy is a scumbag motherfucker.

My respect for the Constitution is greater than my hatred for this waste of flesh.

My only grievance with this situation is that an American Born US Citizen who was arrested on US soil has been held for 18 months without access to legal counsel.

I guess you missed the first 2 pages of the thread where this was discussed at great length.

Holy rhetorical overkill, Batman ... what a clusterfuck this has become.

Good to see that my favorite faithful follower of Brother John Birch is still around :) KC, you have to remember that Torone advocates shooting the enemy - and in his mind, a John McCain Republican is suspect, any Democrat is probably a tratior.

Amazing how scumbags hiding behind the 2nd Ammendment can suddenly become victims absolved of their responsibility for the actions they took that caused government action.

you are just an INGRATE!
;-)))[/b][/quote]
I am grateful that we all went to that Indian place to eat last time I saw you! I'd be grateful to go there again!

is Buff decendant of his slave girlfreind?
;-)))[/b][/quote]
Waiting on the DNA results as we speak -- it could explain my affinity for darker-skinned women ;)

I never said they should release him. I think this guy is a scumbag motherfucker.

My respect for the Constitution is greater than my hatred for this waste of flesh.

My only grievance with this situation is that an American Born US Citizen who was arrested on US soil has been held for 18 months without access to legal counsel.

I guess you missed the first 2 pages of the thread where this was discussed at great length.[/b][/quote]
I read it...I'd like you to quote something like the Constitution rather than Liberal sources.

Jefferson is liberal? :huh:

I am grateful that we all went to that Indian place to eat last time I saw you! I'd be grateful to go there again![/b][/quote]
won't happen
;-(((

the place is closed
;-(((

Jefferson is liberal? :huh:[/b][/quote]
he is...conservatives whites don't father black children
';_))

Jefferson is liberal? :huh:[/b][/quote]
No. The media and the ACLU are.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

That sucks :(

Seriously, Please read the first page of this thread.

Quote:

Originally posted by -KC@Nov 30 2003, 06:12 PM <!--QuoteBegin--Serge_Oprano

This isn't about a porno agenda. This is about one of my own elected officials taking away rights guaranteed to me since 1791. These officials took an oath to preserve my Constitutional rights when they took office.

This guy is a criminal and PROBABLY belongs behind bars anyway. However, disregarding the 5th and 6th amendments for Citizens it unexcusable. In fact, it puts the public at a greater risk, because eventually this guy will get out because the gov't has fucked up this case so much.

5th Amendment
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

6th Amendment
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.
[/quote]