Re: Homegrown remembers when...
 

ONe more thing as for Pornhub piracy...

This is a very interesting read

http://www.takedownpiracy.com/2010/0...ube-sites.html

Re: Homegrown remembers when...
 

Much as I hate it, the quote shows to be more and more true over time...

"Everyone has the ethics and morals they can afford..."

Re: Homegrown remembers when...
 

Everyone bitched when pic posts appeared because they gave away too much content...and overall conversion rates for the industry dropped slightly.

Then came thumb posts....those drew much more traffic! Everyone bitched, conversions dropped some more.

Then MGPs....same deal...

Now to draw the huge traffic, you give away full length clips on a tube site...MASSIVE traffic. But conversion rates are insane.

And as the number of customers drop, the temptation to milk every penny you can get off of the credit cards you do see is too much for many.

So how do we outdraw the tubes? HD Tubes? I haven't really dug, but I bet there are some out there. Or maybe we give private cam shows away for free.

We can bitch, moan and fight amongst ourselves, but the reality is we're circling the bowl.

Re: Homegrown remembers when...
 

I will wait for Gonzo or Eric to give me something better than your assumption which is based on what? You saw a lot of content there? I can't tell. But seeing as how you are still content to condemn people based on circumstantial assumptions I will just add that to the list of reasons why your assessments of me and my business practices hold so little weight.

Re: Homegrown remembers when...
 

Both RawAlex and myself have told you how to tell which videos are stolen. You just have to open your eyes and look. 80% is a conservative estimate.

Re: Homegrown remembers when...
 

I only know what studios told me last year when I was talking with them lat year as we were developing marketing for RealTouch.

Eric works with this every day and all day. Ill see if he has some stats but he keeps a low profile as would I.

Re: Homegrown remembers when...
 

Ok, this is chock full of stuff to respond to and I may not get to it all but here goes:

What worked for me was simply sugar instead of vinegar, a professional approach that was simple, direct, and succinct. "We don't want our content up without permission and request that you remove it, and, btw, since our content seems so popular on your site why don't we find a way that is mutually profitable". Something along those lines has been highly effective for us. I often received responses like "thank you for your professional demeanor, yes we will work with you, and this is a better approach than the hate mail we typically get..."

Next, I don't expect everyone to do what we do or agree with what we do. Everyone is free to choose their own path in this admittedly difficult arena. I resisted tgp and mgp for a long time, and that cost us dearly in the long run. For us, in this case, I was not going to make the same mistake we made last time. The whole tube debate is fraught with "damned if we do, damned if we don't". That is what makes it so difficult for companies in our position. In our case, we have decided that we are going to make the best of a bad situation and try to survive. Our business model has had to flex and bend and contort many times over the years. What worked yesterday may be tomorrow's downfall. That is true in any industry.

However, I came into this business having studied a very successful grassroots business that thrived on so-called "free content". As a huge Grateful Dead fan I can essentially get any recording of any show I want for free. So why do I pay for their content? The answer lies in premium quality and excellent service and a user experience that justifies me laying out the cash. Based on those principles, I feel that "free content" is never going to wipe out "paid content". More than likely, only those that don't deliver the whole kip and kaboodle will be gone tomorrow and to me that is not a problem but a perk.

Re: Homegrown remembers when...
 

Because you don't see a link? What about the traffic trades with "our friends"? How about the possibility that they actually did license some of the material. You are making a causal inference based on circumstantial evidence. Doesn't hold up for me but you can run with it if it makes you feel better about your superiority complex and all.

Re: Homegrown remembers when...
 

I dont know what methodology studios use to communicate. I have found that many I have personally dealt with over the years STILL dont get the internet and could benefit from someone that knows how to work the problems we all face as well as doing some effective PR.

My experience is most use the National Enquirer approach by releasing a promo about having a porn vid of some dead rock guitarist or a statement on offering a mother of 8 a contract to be in a porn video.

I would agree with you on the premium quality issue except for one thing.
When you dont pay for content it frees up money to develop a better free experience than is available in some cases for pay.

I came into this business from the shareware mentality. You hold back something for your paying clients. A feature, the rest of the movie or behind the scenes.

Shareware gave away something for free as well as building goodwill with a base of fans that were potential customers. I know several guys back from the BBS era that became millionaires with this approach and the programs werent very complex.

Marshall Magee and AutoMenu come to mind.
You remember good ole Dos and the command prompt?
This program started out at $5 to register and heres how far it went well after he made his first million.

http://www.magee.com/magee/Automenu.htm

Re: Homegrown remembers when...
 

You're the only one that seems to be having issue acknowledging the fact that most of the content on Pornhub is stolen. I'm not just pulling this info out of thin air. Pornhub has been the topic of discussion many times on the various boards over the last several years with nearly every major producer/sponsor lamenting about their content on Pornhub.

Nearly all of the clips over about 7 or 8 minutes are unauthorized. I'm not aware of ANY sponsors allowing use of longer clips. The few licensed longer clips are pretty clearly watermarked. They're all older discounted broker content. The exact percentage of stolen content, whether it's 44.99% or 99.44% isn't really relevant anyway. What is relevant is that they have a large amount of stolen content on their sites and the presence of those longer clips is what is driving their traffic.

You're not going to believe anything I say, so go look for yourself, open your own eyes, just take off the blinders and rose colored glasses first. Look at how many clips have had the bottom portion stretched to remove the waterark. Look at how many clips are from known sources who produce their own exclusive content. It's not rocket science.

P.S. The better way to not make the same mistake as with tgp and mgp is to provide hosted FLV's for your affiliates.

Re: Homegrown remembers when...
 

A moment of levity if I may.

I looked at the link Toby posted in the earlier thread and I have to wonder... if you go to work for Homegrown do you have to become a porn star?

Re: Homegrown remembers when...
 

Well I wouldn't say that, but I would say that if you work for Homegrown, you have to be free-spirited. Most of us HG folks embody what we love, sex, sensuality, sexuality, and the celebration of all that it is. It's not just a product we push or a service we offer, it's a lifestyle and a mindset first and foremost.

Re: Homegrown remembers when...
 

Well, first of all, I gotta check some of my old BBS CDs.....
:huh:

I've got a suggestion, and it's very simple;

The people that create a product do what they WANT with a product. The rest are subject to what they can build from the creator. But it still follows the golden rule.

And much like the buggy whip manufacturer of old, stop crying about getting an increasing share of a decreasing market, and start creating new markets.

That's how a free market works, lest we forget, 15 years ago, there was no industry for many here. (FAR-L was in the basically same Biz, though.)

Re: Homegrown remembers when...
 

Fuck you. I don't lie. You should know that by now. You might try and hunt down your old friend Jeff Miller whose ethics you seem to be emulating and ask him. Rummy? I think not. I just see through you and you hate it. That kind of slander is the last resort of the loser. And as far as I can see, you have painted yourself into a corner. BTW, I never pointed out a grammatical error in anything you posted. You just got trumped and trying to fob it off as a grammatical malfunction just sucks (pardon the simplicity). After a hard day of hiking in the mountains of Big Sur, I might be pardoned for not being as bellicose as you try and make me out when I point out what I see as the truth. The old Far-L would never have resorted to lying on a web board. The new Far-L is not as charming, witty or as astute. What the fuck happened to you. dude?

Re: Homegrown remembers when...
 

Bingo

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I agree, G. I don't think Far-L is a bad person. I totally disagree with what his company is doing and I think he is misguided and gets very angry when challenged and leads with his chin. But I am sure he is an entertaining fellow. I gotta say though, HG and companies that support content theft in any way are very bad for business and ethicsgo out the window when business is bad. Especially when you have a boatload of people depending on you for their rent cheques.

Re: Homegrown remembers when...
 

We are all in the same boat if its 1 or 100 that depend on this for a living.

I do agree with creating new markets with products as well but for now I see no innovation.

Re: Homegrown remembers when...
 

lol. Nice try but if that is all you got then you are going to have to try a lot harder.

First, I was friendly with Jeff back in the day but I have neither seen or heard from the guy in many years so you can hardly call that a "friend". You can ask him about his involvement or lack thereof in our defense group. But if you made any sort of deal with Jeff I can assure you that he never brought it to the group, and I can also say that he has been out of the defense group for quite some time. You guys are great at assuming everything so I bet you can fill in your own details as to why.

How is it that you have added one single valuable thing, one small contribution of intelligent discourse, to this thread? Remind me, because I don't think anyone here is that impressed that you are trying to badger and belittle me like you were still in High School.

Btw... the rummy comment harkens back to the days when I used to have to put up with your self important drivel. You forget who I know and what I know about you. If you have cleaned up your act then bully for you.

You obviously haven't stopped being a self important bloated bag of wind. With an alias like "rhetorical" doesn't that say it all?

That was a rhetorical question.

Re: Homegrown remembers when...
 

What the fuck are you talking about? Dude, have you considered anger management. First I was lying about my offer. Now you are not so sure.
I would say your anger is again getting the better of you. I think if you re read your rhetoric and the conclusions you jumped to, the shoe is clearly on your foot.
I dunno, Far-L you seem to be spinning out of control. Who put the bug up your ass and how come you are losing it so badly?

Re: Homegrown remembers when...
 

I just re read this thread.....hmmmmm. With the state of this biz today (I think someone already said this, but hey I wanna say it again) this is not a time to be fighting like old housewives. Business is business and we all have to make a living. I personally disagree with the way HG is doing it and that is a matter for legitimate discussion. However, I also think that this thread is not doing anyone any good. I would like to apologize to Far-L for participating in the hair pulling. I would also like to say that Toby had a good point in bringing this topic up. I have nothing but respect for Toby and the way he does business.
Gonzo has done a great job of steering the ship. Many would have locked the thread or worse.
I am bowing out of this melee but I do think a lot of good arguments have been made and everyone knows my position which has remained steadfast since tgp's stole content as anyone who ever followed amateurmasters will attest.

Re: Homegrown remembers when...
 

Giving the house away is not some new hot business model. Sorry its just keeps diluting the value of porn. The problem is most who became successful on the net weren't brilliant but lucky. From the whole affiliate model, instead lets make a better product that people will want to sell and will convert.It was lets give them $100 a sign up.It was like a ponzi scheme that could only be sustained if the sign up numbers were high. They started to tank so then its lets bang the credit card and its because the affiliates want so much.If this was truly a smart industry when the economy slowed down. All free stuff should of been pulled back dramatically to make the value go up. But no its now give away full scenes on the hope they may buy. It all has a air of desperation to it. It's like from Casino "We had the world by the balls and we fucked it all up "
This statement has nothing to do with Far-L. Its all very short term and its sad.

Re: Homegrown remembers when...
 

I expected the thread to be heated. And I also figured noone here would get down to making threats against the other... just a have a sitdown.

Most of us work with this all day everyday so its an important issue and always a lot of emotion involved when your talking about the way people make a living. Especially during a time when several have the potential to go bust.

This isnt GFY. I didnt allow traffic junkies to skin the board and ban anyone that didnt like it. And I dont have to label each thread as an educational seminar.

Hopefully this got everyone thinking and we can collectively figure a way back into profitability.

I leave you with this Xbiz article as a parting gift.

RedTube Wants to Start Serving Subpoenas After Email Threat

Re: Homegrown remembers when...
 

Not sure why you quoted me......
Are you giving an example of people "crying?"

(BTW-I participated in NONE of that crap. We don't do membership sites, free content giveaways, etc....)

Re: Homegrown remembers when...
 

Your statement reminded me of that adapt or die mantra that turns my stomach.

Re: Homegrown remembers when...
 

Ahhh, well yea.
That's a shame. Unfortunately, that seems to be the way it is.
The world doesn't work on a group hug.

Re: Homegrown remembers when...
 

rhetorical - apology accepted. For the record, I was not and am not angry. Angry would sound more like "fuck you" for example... like, ahem, you... but which I never stooped to even though I feel you and Toby were very personal in your attacks on me directly. You should know from our old days of piss and glory on AM that I don't get angry and don't hold grudges in board warrior sparring.

Toby - I don't think I am the one wearing blinders or rose colored glasses and I could make a case that you are but it would really serve no purpose, would it? You have your position and I have mine. We don't do business with each other or compete in our niches. Your advice about hosted flv is sound but already something we are doing but thanks for mentioning it nonetheless.

Tony404 - I agree that some other practices have been far more destructive to customer trust and satisfaction, but on a positive note... we often hear from our customers that they are finally happy to find a site that doesn't treat them like others have and delivers more than what is promised with out viruses, bad billing, etc. These are the same customers that sometimes stay with us for years. Maybe I should be thanking all those assholes that pushed these tired of all the bullshit surfers into our arms?

Finally, for the record, we don't put up longer than 5 minute branded clips on Pornhub. They take down anything that is up without our branding. They get some content. We get some decent traffic. That is all there is to it. I can't be the police for other people's content. Sorry to sound calloused but I really don't care which of my competitor's sites go out of business because they gave away all their stuff. I consider that doing us a favor.

There are plenty of things that people can get easily for free but which they still choose to pay for. Remember, sex is after all free, so why do people still pay for it and why is selling it still referred to as the oldest profession?

Re: Homegrown remembers when...
 

How moronic. Don't those idiots know that doing something like that will do more harm than good? Let the lawsuits run their course.

Re: Homegrown remembers when...
 

We get the same thing.When I worked for Mercedes Benz they drummed into your head without the customer we are nothing. People forget that. We go out of our way for our customers, alot of them cancel thru us. We always ask why are you canceling and take the things to heart on what we can do better. Also if the reason was I lost my job or my hours were cut or im losing my home. We cancel them and also give them a month free and say thank you for being a customer. Many come back and join again and again.

Re: Homegrown remembers when...
 

Now... unless anyone wants to still address the tube issues... let's return to our previously scheduled program...

I remember when Lightspeed's Tawnee Stone ruled the world of "solo girl" sites and she really was 18... well... closer to 18... within a decade of 18 shall we say.

Re: Homegrown remembers when...
 

I remember when this new little site called Persian Kitty asked us for a link exchange! :okthumb:

Re: Homegrown remembers when...
 

Yes, about the same time Carol was setting the standard for amateur sites that is still unmatched to this day... ;-)

Re: Homegrown remembers when...
 

MikeAi and Persian Kitty... now those are 2 folks along with Green guy that proved how much money you can make with an index site.

Re: Homegrown remembers when...
 

Whatever happened to MikeAI?

Re: Homegrown remembers when...
 

Mike is still around. I speak to him and Serge frequently.

Mike sold Oprano to me with Serge and he sold Purecash to WEG who promptly tanked it before it got out the gate.

Re: Homegrown remembers when...
 

Trivia question....


What was the first great billing company blowout?

Re: Homegrown remembers when...
 

Before DMR? ;)

Re: Homegrown remembers when...
 

I can tell you who the first large 3rd party biller was.

Re: Homegrown remembers when...
 

That is what I had as the answer...

Funny story about that time...

After the original Player's Ball there was an after party up in one of the suites and we had a live sex show going on... which somehow I found myself in the middle of at one point. (Don't ask me how that happens... just when I thought I was out... they pulllllllll me back in). In the room, J$tyles, Sweet T, and Oystein were all having a conversation about the very recent implosion of DMR and getting into some interesting details. Little did they know, as they had never met me before, that not only was I a professional porn dude but also a super secret agent scooping on everything they said as I jam-a-lam-a-ding-donged away on the bed. Just call me Bond, Jimmy Bond.

Opened my eyes about some stuff that people always suspect but never have the insider track to know for sure.

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And no it wasnt CCBill or Ibill or Epoch.

Re: Homegrown remembers when...
 

Teleflora, believe it or not.