Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

I fucking hate traffic wardens ..

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

Must suck having no belief system at all... I agree religion is bullshit but I don't think that spirituality is bullshit.

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

Define spirituality. :rolleyes:

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

For me its easier to just paste the summary of my personal beliefs.
(This is from another forum, non-adult, where a similar discussion was taking place)

Alright, since I do not believe in "a form of overseer or creator" I will start by trying to outline my own personal beliefs...

I really have no real recollection of when specifically I decided that I simply did not believe in a singular higher power. I was baptized, grew up in a religious family, went to church camps in the summer, was a member of CGIT... etc. At some point, however, I concluded that the notion of a singular higher power simply did not fit. I would rather use the terms "singular higher power" than "God" because for me "God" is associated with Christianity & to only acknowledge "God" is to disregard the existance of other organized religions which have existed just as long, if not longer.

When I look back at the theories of evolution, scientifically proven, they make sense. When I look at other science theories, how smaller pieces interact with one another to make a greater whole, it makes sense. Nowhere in our world, in any kind of level, does it make sense to have a singular higher power. Physically, we have protons & neutrons which make up the nucleus which is a part of atoms which compose molecules which compose matter, which plays whatever part it happens to have, in our physical realm, even if its as seemingly insignificant as a trashcan, it has its place in the room in the building the building has its place in the community, the community has its place in the country, the country has its place in the world/on earth, earth has its place in the universe... it goes on as so. Politically we have the children which are a part of the family which is a part of the community which leads up to the municipal government which leads up to provincial/state/whatever the system is level of government, which leads up to national government, which has its part in the global society again... everything interacts, everything plays a part of something even bigger. To me the idea of a single higher power that is due credit for 'creating' and then stepping back & having nothing else to do with us but play chess with our destinies, doesn't fit in the way nature itself, works. So many more examples could be brought up than the 2 I detailed above, which are extremely basic.

I do believe in a soul. I believe that yet again, our very presence here on earth is an integral part of a soul's development. Think back to the days when a classroom was not segregated by age rank, and everybody was in one room, one instructor, learning together. Enlarge that now.... Earth is our classroom, we are all the students, and we are all at different levels. We have all encountered people who without even trying can manage to somehow unintentionally make us feel small in comparison, or look up to them, and we've also on the other hand met or heard stories about yet other people who do things which shock and appall us because "Don't they know that's wrong?" --Chances are they don't know that's wrong. Chances are (in my personal belief system) that we're shocked & appalled because their behavior is something that our soul has already learned, in a past life. There are some things that parents, teachers, other mentor figureheads in our lives, don't tell us that we just KNOW is wrong. That knowledge, comes from our past experiences in this classroom we call earth. From other lives, from other lessons. Our soul will come back life after life after life, until it has grown up enough if you will, to move on past the classroom, past this earth, into yet even a bigger picture, a larger more matured 'soul system' if you will. Much like children go through school, to graduate, and become members of the community, each fulfills a different purpose.

I do believe in Karma. I'm putting this in a seperate paragraph because its a bit of a sidetrack. Lessons for a soul are not always going to be learned in one lifetime, I do not believe. I'll use Clifford Olson as my example... I do not believe that jail is karma for him. I do not believe that being in jail is teaching his soul anything, that he is truly learning the err of his ways. I believe that when he passes from this life, the particular lesson he's here to learn, will carry on to the next life, possibly lives. When he is here as a child, and dies a horribly violent death, perhaps one for each child he killed, when his soul comes back and is the parent of a child who is killed, that is when his soul will truly understand, when it will truly have learned, when it will come back & live a life & not kill again, it'll know not to... it will be here for another lesson, a different one.

That’s a summary

I could probably add plenty more detail to that if I felt like typing it all out, but hopefully that gives you all a general idea.

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

Ok, I read all of that (really I did) and I did not see any definition of spirituality in there. I saw a whole lot of stuff you believe and why you believe it, but previously you stated "I don't think that spirituality is bullshit", so if you could please elucidate as to what you consider "spirituality" to be, I will then shoot it down :yowsa: er, I mean, offer up my opinion on the matter :okthumb:

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

*WHOOSH*

....it all went over your head, I see.

I don't think spirituality is bullshit no, for me, the above is my idea of being spiritual, (of or pertaining to the spirit/soul)

You, however, don't believe in the presence of a soul it would seem, so naturally you'll disagree.

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

So, in your definition of spirituality which you are so not giving me, it requires belief in a soul.

Ok, then would you define soul for me ? :unsure:

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

Sarettah, I am not going to spend hours trying to give definitions to things you don't believe in to start with. I'm not here to change your mind, you don't want to believe in the spirit or souls, that's fine with me. I do, & that's fine with me too. :)

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

I have not said anything in this thread as to what I believe or do not believe, if you found that in here, you (or some other commenter) put it here (and yes I will go back through and make sure of that).

I honestly cannot discuss spirtuality or the presence/absence of souls with someone without defining the terms first. It seems that each individual has decided that they have the right to assign whatever meanings they want to words. So, since I know what I mean when I say "spirituality" and "soul", I do not necessarilly know anything about what you mean when you use those words.

If it would take you hours to define, then you probably don't know what you mean either ;)

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

It would take hours to define, because you would keep on asking me to redefine it.

Check the first post on this page, for definition.

"Spirituality: of or pertaining to spirit / soul"

If either spirit or soul had a set definition beyond a personal interpretation of what it is, there wouldn't be any real choice about whether or not you're going to believe, it would be fact, not personal belief/interpretation/etc.

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

In regards to that, see first post in this thread.

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

lol That too

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

Well, of course if "spirit" is in the definition of spirituality then it needs to be defined. If spirit is synonymous with soul then one or the other has to be defined before an intelligent conversation can be had about it.

If your idea of spirit is "thought without physical presence" meaning ghosties and goblins and such then yes, I will label it as bullshit.

If spirit is definied as the inner lifeforce that all living things have then I would not label that as bullshit. It is a fact that we are driven by energy, we convert energy every nanosecond we are alive and when we die whatever energy is left in the physical parts that remain go back to the whole.

So, which definition of spirit are we using here ? :rolleyes:

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

:okthumb:

I believe the yuts use the term..OWNED!!!!

:)

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

Response one:
The thread title is based in fact, not belief :okthumb:


Secondary response:
If my thread titles are taken as my beliefs then you guys have a really warped picture of me...lololol...

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

Hi Yut :yowsa:

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

Again, where do you get my beliefs from in there.

I stated facts not beliefs. :yowsa:

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

The latter definition you gave there. I don't believe in ghosties & goblins, I believe in "ghosties" in the sense that the energy of an individual can linger in an area after their physical form has passed, I've lived in a house where the original owners energy was still there & it was not 'hoaxy' it was quite noticeable not just to me, but my roommates, and any guests we had as well.

I don't believe in billowing white floaty things though.

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

Oh, for fuck's sake, sarettah...enough already!! My chain is curled up and safely put away and no longer available for the yank session you've got going.

"Thread title is based in fact, not belief" :blink:

Yeah, baby, sell those facts...pass that collection plate...sell those bibbles....

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

On the subject of ghosties...

I've never been grabbed by the ghosties , but I have been grabbed by the ghoulies.

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

You stated beliefs.
You can neither disprove the presence of a spirit or soul anymore than I can prove it. It boils down to what we as individuals, choose to believe or disbelieve.

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

I have actually experienced a poltergeist at my ex sister in laws place in London .. saw a plank of wood she was using as a shelf with 3 or 4 books on, literally flip over several times which isnt possibly with the weight of the books on it .. was looking straight at it ..

Another time I was in a dark room with no light except for the moonlight .. saw 3 figures who were actually a lot darker than the black of the walls move along them, these were hooded figures with features that could be seen such as fingers creeping along the wall and about 5.5ft tall.

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

I've been at a seance that worked...

thing moved without anyone touching it in the end.Then flew in the air.

People lost their minds and a Clergyman came round and ripped into everyone that took part.

:(

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

When someone in a laboratory setting can prove spirit or soul it will stop being bullshit, until then, all empirical evidence ppoints to the non existence of such, so it is bullshit.

As far as beliefs go. each person always has their own beliefs, often going in direct contradiction to established fact.

My daughter believes (for some reason) that if she ignores her credit card bills that they will somehow go away and not haunt her (lol...she even told me on one "oh, they'll just write it off"..I had to explain to her the implications of that)

Often people believe in God and spirits, etc because of personal proof (more often they believe it because the same person who told them about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny told them to believe it). That personal proof is often a "one time occurence" so it cannot be proven in any manner but the person will believe it wholeheartedly because they witnessed it and that is all the proof they need.

Facts just are.

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

By the way. The way things work in the scientific world is that the burden of proof is on the claimant, as in those that claim something IS have to prove it IS, not the other way around. No matter how you try to flip flop it. :okthumb:

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

So does that mean that all the scientific facts we now know were all bullshit until they were proven?

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

Sarettah the problem that I have with that ideology is that if everybody thought that "What we have is all there is & all we know is all there is" is that things would never get invented.

I'm going to use electricity as an example. There was a time, when people did not know electricity. Does this mean that the potential for electricity to be created, was simply not there? No, it simply meant that it had not yet been discovered. Just because something cannot be scientifically explained at this point & time, does not mean that it won't at some point be able to, nor does it mean that it "doesn't exist"

The possibility is there, people just have to look for it. Those who do, have a better chance of finding it.

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

:-pearl: My own personal pearl, if nothing else. :)

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

You do not need to believe that something is actually there to go look for it. I have never said "What we have is all there is & all we know is all there is" or anything near to it. There is so much we don't know that it dwarfs by many magnitudes what we actually do know.

That we don't know something is not a reason to make up a belief to fill in a gap.

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

Crikey! Morgan misspelt bibles? Sare, stop stressing the girl!

Morgan, this what you were looking for?

Abu Ben Adam (may his tribe increase)
Awoke one night from a deep dream of peace
And saw, within the moonlight of his room
Making it rich, like a lily in bloom
An angel writing in a book of gold.

Exceeding peace had made Abu Ben Adam bold
And to the presence in his room he said
'What writest thou?'
The vision raised its head
And with a look of all sweet accord
Answered: 'The names of those who love the Lord.

'And is mine one?' said Abu.
'Nay not so'
Replied the Angel:
Abu spoke more low But cheerily still and said
'I pray thee then
Write me as one that loves his fellow-men'
The angel wrote and vanished.

The next night It came again with awaking light
And showed the names of whom love of God had blessed.
And lo! Ben Adam's name led all the rest.

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

(Even Cowgirls get the Blues...Tom Robbins)

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

Most things do for Sarettah. http://oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/blink.gif

Just like his hair. http://oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

Ok, nice find there Lisa!!

Now, that isn't what the bible, or any religious orginization I know of that believes in the bible, teaches as to the requirements to get into heaven. Any time I have seen someone espouse a belief like that it is as someone who doesn't take the requirements from the bible but rather what they think a loving God would do. Someone who is more spirutual about their beliefs on God and not a "follower" of the bible so to speak. So...... Morgan.. if you could please elaborate I would greatly appreciate it...

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

Your gift for the obvious brings a smile to my sensibilities

Well put and well done

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

I feel compelled to share.
I am a frisbeetarian. We frisbeetarian believe that when you die, your soul departs your shell of a body and gets stuck on the roof.

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

... Unless the Great Dog god catches you in his mouth and takes your body for a romp through the Eternal Park. :p

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

true, true :)

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

You got it backwards

Einsteins theory of relativity has not yet been proven. Neither has Darwin, nor Big Bang, Nor anything about the dinosaurs.

Science starts with a hypothisis, and all actions taken are to DISPROVE the hypothisis. When disproval can not be found it is generally accepted as fact.

Relativity can not be proven until we see an object traveling the speed of light squared.

Same reason that the science world for decades said we evolved from monkeys, when more recent evidence points to our simply being a different branch of the evolutionary tree.

When I was a child Dinoraurs were reptiles, TRex stood straght up, and was the strongest hunter that walked the planet.

Recent evidence says birds, standing would break its spine, and it was a huge vulture.

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

No, I don't have it backwards...lol... I think you misunderstood what I was addressing. I was addressing the fact that many people, if you ask them to prove there are ghosts will turn around and say "well, prove there aren't" as if that is a valid argument, which it is not.


I understand fully the scientific method and the fact that a theory is never actually proven. The beautiful thing about the scientific method is that it leaves things open to be challeneged and changed. The difference between science and a religion is that science is open to the challenge while religion allows no room for the challenge.