Re: DirectNic Demands SlicksNetwork.com Hand Over Model IDs
 

Folks, I'm not sure how I could prove it, but I'm a very real person and this was really bothering me today when I came across this discussion. I'm not even sure what you would be implying when suspecting my post as being fake. You think someone put me up to this to skew some point of discussion in this forum?

I've stated my opinion (and it's factual about the thumbnail links on the reallyeighteen site being redirects... rather obvious when I click them)

My screen name is Grogan, I've used it for around 11 years on computer help Web sites and IRC servers. I use it with honour and integrity, just as if it were my real name. Someone here was already registered as Grogan. I do not give real names or other personal info. If an administrator of this forum wishes to contact me, they may do so using the email address in my profile and I will answer any questions they may have about me. Yes, that's really me in the picture I've just uploaded as an avatar.

When I register to make a post on a forum, I do stick around a bit for follow up discussion. I've now read some other threads here too.

Re: DirectNic Demands SlicksNetwork.com Hand Over Model IDs
 

That is still no excuse for what I saw on the various sites in question and I never went past the thumbs.

Each and every webmaster has the responsibility of running their sites in an honest, ethical method and also need to be constantly policing themselves. The only possible excuse for not being in full control of the content of your site and the links from your sites would be getting hacked and in that case it should be a very temporary thing. It is also every webmasters responsibility to make sure their sites do not get hacked by keeping adequate security in place.

Re: DirectNic Demands SlicksNetwork.com Hand Over Model IDs
 

For once we actually agree on something.

Re: DirectNic Demands SlicksNetwork.com Hand Over Model IDs
 

As I said, perhaps he needs to do just that (re-evaluate his affiliates). What DirectNIC has done is overstepping their bounds. My point about it being redirects is, how would it be possible to submit "ID" for the models in the links that are just redirects?

In my time at that site (reallyeighteen), I saw nothing in the thumbnails that made me think it might lead to "cp". Young looking college age girls are not kiddie porn either.

Re: DirectNic Demands SlicksNetwork.com Hand Over Model IDs
 

Reallyeighteen was not the one causing the trouble from what I saw. Directnic basically siezed his entire account so everything he had registered with them was hit.

Re: DirectNic Demands SlicksNetwork.com Hand Over Model IDs
 

Ok, sorry for having tunnel vision there. Reallyeighteen is the site that concerned me because it's one that I was using. I do also recall landing on amateurcurves through the redirects, but didn't realize they were the same people. I don't recall seeing anything bad there either.

I really hadn't given it much thought until today.

Re: DirectNic Demands SlicksNetwork.com Hand Over Model IDs
 

I think you're referring to what they call in TGP as a SKIM. There's a difference between when you click a thumb and the skim sends you to a trade (in effect sending you to another site), or when it sends you to a gallery listing. A gallery listing oftentimes will have a link at the bottom with a "click here for 2257 information". Those are the listings that are "resident" to the tgp, as they are static links. THe redirected links are other people's sites, essentially.

Re: DirectNic Demands SlicksNetwork.com Hand Over Model IDs
 

Ive looked at your IP and the pool it comes thru.

Thats good enough for me.

I think this is a first but.... Welcome to Oprano.

Re: DirectNic Demands SlicksNetwork.com Hand Over Model IDs
 

No kidding :) Don't often see this kind of crossover, but this fellow is a bright sort to have followed things this far. Welcome AnotherGrogan :)

Re: DirectNic Demands SlicksNetwork.com Hand Over Model IDs
 

Thanks for the explanation. I didn't know the terminology, but yes that's what I'm describing. Most thumbnail links on tgp sites do seem to lead to other domains, but I never really thought about which ones are resident. I just thought of those tgp sites as portals to affiliate and advertiser sites.

I've learned a few things by reading some threads here today and following some links, including a bit about how many of these TGP sites operate. I didn't realize the degree of automation in updating the pages.

I've seen "2257" info before, but it always seemed to be more of a disclaimer to me. "These models were over the age of 18 when the pics were taken, and records are held by those who published the pics" or whatever it says. I never paid a lot of attention to it as I don't live in the US.

So then, a domain registrar might overstep their bounds in more ways than one. Namely, exerting self granted authority where laws like this have no jurisdiction. For example, someone might have no such requirement in another country to be able to produce such records (or as mentioned, it might even be prohibited by law to disclose such info), yet a righteous domain registrar can lock up the domains and demand that they produce this? Registrars should be just that... registrars.

Edit: I should think that sort of policing is more appropriate for a hosting provider, to object to content and take sites offline. Domain registrars should provide the administrative service of registering domains, impartially.

-----------------------------------------------

Also, thanks for the welcome Gonzo and LadyMischief. This looks like a pretty cool place :-)

Re: DirectNic Demands SlicksNetwork.com Hand Over Model IDs
 

This isn't industry regulation though. This is one company appointing itself as having the authority to shutdown another company's business based upon regulations that have never even been validated in a court of law by a judge. I think most of the "industry" in fact still feels that 2257 as written is unconstitutional in fact.

Now I'm not defending anyone who wants to take pics of very young looking girls without covering their ass and making sure they're 18 and having ample docs to back it up. But in this case, I'm thinking more and more based on information available that Directnic overstepped their bounds. I'd be ok with it if they'd just opted not to do business with the guy and bounced him. That's what I do with people whose practices I do not like, I simply dont do business with them.

But they are way out on a limb here by locking the domain where it cant be moved if that is indeed what is happening. I keep thinking there has to be more to this than meets the eye as it doesn't make sense for Directnic to make a move this harsh.

My docs are clean, but I have to admit that I'd be BEYOND PISSED if a registrar put me on the spot like that. I'm their customer and they want to scrutinize my business? It's like having your landlord want to come in and make sure you have all of the required DOL information posted on your bulletin board in the breakroom. That's not their role.

Hosts can request docs when DMCA is put into play. And 2257 says Uncle Sam can knock on your door and inspect your records. Beyond that, vendors have no entitlement to audit a damned thing.

Re: DirectNic Demands SlicksNetwork.com Hand Over Model IDs
 

Copy it without permission? Yeah, that would likely be covered under the Open Records Act as DMV records are specifically excluded in the state of Georgia.

But if you're saying it's illegal to copy it if someone voluntarily supplies it to you, then I call bullshit unless you can find the statute. If it's true, it's violated left and right by everyone including the state.

Everyone from the DOL on down asks you to supply a "government issued photo id" which they copy for their records as proof they checked it. They dont say it HAS to be drivers license, but that is typically the ONLY government issued photo id most people carry with them.

Because there is protected personal information on a driver's license, privacy laws would also dictate how that copy would be stored, who can access it, etc.

But as far as I know if I hand you my driver's license for you to copy, there's nothing illegal.

Now a tip for anyone who ever wants to take issue with people who ask for it, you can get a state provided "photo identification card" that is totally separate from your driver's license. In Georgia, you get it at the DMV, same basic process as driver's license (need to provide birth certificate, etc) you just dont have to take the driver's test.

Re: DirectNic Demands SlicksNetwork.com Hand Over Model IDs
 

I have a bit of an issue with Directnic's silence. They seem to be dealing with this the same way they did when accused of kiting. They ignored it. Maybe it is a good business strategy, but in the long run, I don't think it is effective. Once maybe, but twice or more is just ducking. Or, like I said earlier, are they trying to bail on adult and come out fighting in the straight market.

Re: DirectNic Demands SlicksNetwork.com Hand Over Model IDs
 

Again signs point to there being something going on we do not know.

Unless their domain portfolio is balanced radically different from how I think it is, dumping adult and going after the likes of GoDaddy, etc for mainstream marketshare doesn't seem too bright. Only way that would make sense would be if they have a potential mainstream buyer on the hook who is asking them to clean things up.

Let's say a public company was looking to buy them, only a matter of time before competitors clue in the media and it's leaked that Directnic is home to A LOT of porn domains. This makes public company look bad and brings questions from shareholders and media that they do not want. Now paint the same scenario but arm your PR team with the actions Directnic is doing right now.

Kinda makes you go hmmmmmm.....

Re: DirectNic Demands SlicksNetwork.com Hand Over Model IDs
 

I found the thread at "GFY" (heheh, nice acronym) and read through most of it. Well I had to skip some of the pages in the middle because it's just too many and too much bickering. Time for bed, delirium setting in. There's lots I hadn't considered, but I haven't really changed my opinion.

I see my post got quoted and scrutinized there as well. I'm not going to register there, but I can assure you that no, adult sites have nothing to do with my business. I'm a "surfer" in terms of not being an adult site operator but I'm a surfer that knows a thing or ten about how the Internet works. Some of us techies like to look at galleries too. Mr. Presumptuous over there is welcome to a nice steaming cup of "Shut the Heck Up". Tasty stuff. I know :)

Re: DirectNic Demands SlicksNetwork.com Hand Over Model IDs
 

Ok, I think I do need to make a statement about TGP, since I know the vast majority of people here have limited experience with the medium, and probably know even less about running one/maintaining trades.


Anyone who's ever run a tgp knows that it's a full time job. If you run a NETWORK of them, even moreso. Some of these tgps have HUNDREDS of trades, it's the way that they ensure traffic growth to their own sites. Each trade has to be hand-reviewed before it's put in, and TGP owners have to continually go BACK to these trades to make sure what's put there is NOT illegal or offensive (such as CP). Oftentimes only going to a site once you will NOT neccessarily see anything that would be offensive, and MANY times these assholes who run the tgps/networks that DO offer CP do NOT put those things into place until AFTER they establish trades with people. So let me give a scenario that might make people realize that Slick as much as his diligence would have helped, also fell victim in a way to something that happens to tgp people on a consitant basis.

Let's lay out the scenario. I'm a tgp owner looking for trades or adding trades to my site.. Someone sends me an email or contacts me looking for a trade (or perhaps even enters it into an automatic form that some scripts have for trades). I review the site and everything looks good, so I add him into my trade system (this is where the skims go, that percentage can be changed, but only within a certain median if it's going to maintain site growth). He putters in my trades for a while, I don't go back to check every day, I have 500 trades, I can't review them all daily. I have my hands full going through the 10,000+ galleries sitting in queue from chameleon submitter people and other submits. So the trade I added starts putting up CP, and suddenly my skims/trades are CP sites, even though they weren't when I added them. I wouldn't know this unless a) I went to my trades every day, b) someone reported it to me or c) one of my trades reported the problem or posted somewhere and they let me know. It's not like it's something that's in their face every second.

Not to mention the fact that most tgp scripts run some sort of thumb rotator, so two different people going to a page will NOT neccessarily see the same thumbs, and this can make it even MORE difficult to detect potential difficulties within the trades. Slick can be responsible for what is on his own network, and he can do his BEST to stay on top of his trades, but in reality, he may not ever have known that his trades had CP or "virtual" CP on them. It would have been very likely in fact that he never had a clue.

Just throwing this out there because people are very quick to hold Slick to the fire for his "affiliations" without actually realizing everything that's involved in that process. Due diligence would have helped him a lot, but in all honesty I can see very well how he wouldn't have gone and reviewed every trade on every site on his network on a consistant enough basis to weed out problem trades. I can almost guarantee there are a dozen other tgps right now trading traffic with the sites Slick is getting nailed for trading with, and they don't even realize what's on those sites.

(Remember the trades I'm talking about are the "redirects", that's the TGP skim, it's a percentage of traffic that tgp owners trade around to promote the growth of their systems... If a script sends 2 hits to so and so, their script will send him hits back, and it's this kind of traffic trades that grow tgps).

Re: DirectNic Demands SlicksNetwork.com Hand Over Model IDs
 

You are in Ontario too and seem like a super smart guy. I'd love to chat with you.. Please email me, treasure@homegrownvideo.com Seems to me I could use a "surfer" with your kind of smarts for something I'm working on ;) You can also hit me up on icq 3522039.

Re: DirectNic Demands SlicksNetwork.com Hand Over Model IDs
 

All well said LM and I would agree with most of what you said.

However, I saw the thumbs that were running on one of slicks sites, I never went through to the galleries.

There was no excuse for the thumbs I saw. They were clearly targetting one type of customer and one type only.

Putting aside DN's legal right versus Slick's legal right etc for a second. My personal viewpoint is that anyone targetting that particular market is as bad as the customers in that particular market and the producers of that particular market and any so called "legal" sites or illegal sites that cater to that market. They should all die a very slow painful death and I personally don't give a fuck what anyone does to them legal or illegal. I do not care how we get rid of them, I just want them gone.

Re: DirectNic Demands SlicksNetwork.com Hand Over Model IDs
 

I'm still waiting for his proof. I guess he's been working the last 24 hours.

Re: DirectNic Demands SlicksNetwork.com Hand Over Model IDs
 

Slick claims on GFY that most of his thumbs were cut by the autocropper and that if you click through to the galleries the content should match exactly. The question is then is it the thumbs or the content that's questionable, and all the sites he was promoting from what I saw were from reputable (so to speak) sponsors. It leaves a fine tangled web, doesn't it?

Re: DirectNic Demands SlicksNetwork.com Hand Over Model IDs
 

Yeah, but I am a programmer. I don't allow people to blame it on the computer.

If you are a webmaster, you are responsible for what is on your site, plain and simple. Doesn't matter if you are running scripts or doing it by hand as far as I'm concerned. Anyone who puts their business completely in the hands of a computer will be out of business one way or the other in due time.

Re: DirectNic Demands SlicksNetwork.com Hand Over Model IDs
 

TBH, from what I can gather STRICTLY on his GFY comments, Slick may have been in the adult industry for years, but he wasn't running it like it was a business. IMO, that's what got him into this mess and more than likely exacerbated it. When your first post is to come on GFY asking who the company is (when they clearly tell you every time you register or renew a domain) and then come back AGAIN to GFY asking for an attorney, admit you THOUGHT all the trades were OK, etc. then you're a sitting target.

Re: DirectNic Demands SlicksNetwork.com Hand Over Model IDs
 

*I* agree with you, however, people will use the tools that are available to them without truly realizing the consequences. Have you ever hand-cropped thousands of thumbs? Just asking.

Re: DirectNic Demands SlicksNetwork.com Hand Over Model IDs
 

I agree, most people who are in the business on this level are not "businesspeople". TGP and those types of aspects of the business can be easier for entry-level folks, but I assure you that the guys that run the big networks are making _MUCH_ more than beer money, and more and more ARE starting to run things like a business, simply because circumstances force them to. I think Slick was kind of caught in the middle of a bigger fight, and just happened to be the unfortunate fellow the hammer fell on first. I truly don't believe he was doing anything other than running his business and making money for his family (and doing very well at it too, the Slick network is well known in the TGP world). He made the same mistakes 1000's of other people are continuing to make, and only education will change that. If nothing else comes out of this thing, it will be a shakeup for people to re-assess how they run their business and to accept that they have taken on liability in how they do things, and have contingencies in place to deal with it.

However all that being said, crucifying the guy without knowing the FULL story isn't exactly fair, either. More than anything I feel his problem was a lack of knowledge, as opposed to an intent of ill.

Re: DirectNic Demands SlicksNetwork.com Hand Over Model IDs
 

TGP Networks will trade to sites both within their network and outside of them. It's a way for them to grow the number of clicks that come into their sites, and (in theory) increase sales.

Re: DirectNic Demands SlicksNetwork.com Hand Over Model IDs
 

Exactly right, he was targeting pedophiles. Either that or he's a real idiot and was targeting teenage boys without credit cards.

Re: DirectNic Demands SlicksNetwork.com Hand Over Model IDs
 

The issue here is not whether slick was right or wrong. I have never seen the material in question.
The issue is whether the registrar can be the judge and jury and hang the accused. I see no evidence of discussions or questioning of slick by DN.
There are courts and police and the FBI to deal with this before cutting off someone's business.
I disagree with Sarettah when he says get rid of all offenders in a legal or illegal manner. That is just lynch mob tactics. Again, we have courts for that.
This is sooooo like the communist witch hunts of the fifties it is scarey.
Personally, I cannot see how any one in this business could possibly defend DN for its actions in this case. We should collectively be raging against this shit.

Re: DirectNic Demands SlicksNetwork.com Hand Over Model IDs
 

This is where the line between societal mores and basic human evolution clash. 100 years ago, it was perfectly acceptable and even normal for a 14 year old girl to be married and starting a family. Throughout recorded history until OUR CENTURY, girls 12 years old were already getting married and starting families, and the (often much older) men they married didn't have people running around pointing and calling them pedophiles. It was the norm. In the human psyche, no matter what society tells us, males will respond to females who present them with "fresh, vital, full of life and fertile". It's simple instinct. In today's society it's not acceptable for men to be turned on by this because of the magical number "18" that has been imposed in the name of societal mores. I AGREE with that number being in place, I don't feel young girls in our society are ready to deal with more than they have already. HOWEVER, implying that men are pedophiles because they respond to/are attracted by youthful females, you are saying that it's human nature to be a pedophile. This is NOT the case. The definition of pedophile in the dictionary is:

pe·do·phile /ˈpidəˌfaɪl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[pee-duh-fahyl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun Psychiatry.
an adult who is sexually attracted to young children.
Also, pedophiliac.

PRE-PUBESCENT children are the scope of interest of TRUE pedophiles, once they sproud their little boobies and start gaining some shape, the TRUE pedophiles are NO LONGER INTERESTED. The real issue here isn't subscribing to pedophiles so much as it's catering to human nature. Sure, CP gets thrown into the mix and there ARE sickos who seek that stuff, but if we're goign to start hurling these kind of words, let's be REALISTIC about the reasons why people keep doing it. IT WORKS. Human nature/instinct has NOT evolved as quickly as our society has and no matter if society says it's wrong, it is still a part of the equation. I am in no way saying that marketing in this way is good, or that I agree with it.. However, it DOES work, and will CONTINUE to work, right or wrong, not because of a world full of PERVERTS, but because it's a world full of MEN who are just as subject to their own nature as they are the neccessity to breathe.

Not a single man here could tell me he hasn't looked, BY INSTINCT at an attractive underage girl. What he did with the thought process after that point is really all his own nature, but the fact that his brain DID make him take note even though HE CONSCIOUSLY KNOWS IT'S WRONG UNDER SOCIETY'S law, his instincts are still playing that role of procreator and looking for the best, freshest, healthiest candidates to carry his DNA into the next generation.

Re: DirectNic Demands SlicksNetwork.com Hand Over Model IDs
 

Yep, which is the reason I don't do much site building anymore. Done right, it can be intensely boring, tedious work and you spend long hours doing it even with tools helping. I used to thumb and crop the images, catalog the sets and images by niche Multi niche actually, (redhead:lesbian:strapon:etc), type (softcore, hardcore), whether they were sponsor provided or purchased, 2257 info, etc, on and on.

And this was to be able to put trustworthy automation in place.

But, if you choose to run tgp or even just do a shit load of galleries and free sites, to do it right is a big job and when you decide you are going to do it is when you should have agreed with yourself to do the work.

There is nothing wrong with attemting to automate and make your job easier, however, it does not remove responsibility.

Old saying from my Navy days: You can delegate authority, you cannt delegate responsibility.

Re: DirectNic Demands SlicksNetwork.com Hand Over Model IDs
 

The thumbs I saw appeared to be prepubescent, I would have put them in the 8 year old area. And I have 2 daughters so I do know the difference between prepubescent and teen.

These did not bring up the instinct of I want to reproduce with that, it brought up the image of anyone who destroys that innocence should be shot and damn, that girl is scared shitless of what that asshole is about to do.

Re: DirectNic Demands SlicksNetwork.com Hand Over Model IDs
 

That shit scares me too, I have two little girls. THe stuff I personally saw on slick's sites was never that questionable, what was on his trades was what brought me up short.

My comments on instinct were simply to bring a little perspective to the other argument, about taking older girls and making them look younger. Actual CP itself is sickening, and if it was on Slick's sites he deserves what he gets. Every gallery I saw when I looked in web-archives were from well-known/highly promoted sponsors that are "reputable", however. Please show me the questionable thumbs because I'd be curious to see what sponsors they are promoting.

Re: DirectNic Demands SlicksNetwork.com Hand Over Model IDs
 

I agree, and that is how *I* run MY ship, however I think having had the experience, you can appreciate why someone would allow automation to remove 95% of the tedious labor from the process.. Some of these networks are massive and just cropping thumbs would be a 5 day a week job for someone. It's not an excuse, but I see WHY people leave these things up to automation.

Re: DirectNic Demands SlicksNetwork.com Hand Over Model IDs
 

The only page I looked at was the front of majorpervert. I am not sure how you would get back to what was there at that point.

Re: DirectNic Demands SlicksNetwork.com Hand Over Model IDs
 

I never saw the questionable content on Slick's sites because it personally bothers me so much, that I won't even attempt to view it if even if proves a point.

However, many people FOR Slick and AGAINST DirectNic said there were CP links.

Slick might be making a lot of money doing what he's done. As Shania said "That don't impress me much.". The guy make mistake, after mistake, after mistake. If it runs him out of business, I have no pity for him.

I canceled all of my domains with "teen" in them at least 2 years ago. I removed all the content on my freesites when the 2257 issue was rearing its ugly head. It's possible to make money in this biz without even getting NEAR the edge of the envelope, let alone be over the edge and not even know it - where it seems Slick was.

Re: DirectNic Demands SlicksNetwork.com Hand Over Model IDs
 

That's great for you, but there are a lot of people who still promote the teen category in a LEGITIMATE way. Would those people not want to know who was doing things wrong and make sure they were blacklisted or they stopped doing business with them? I want to know because it might affect my business, and for no other reason at this point. You guys crucified him for his affiliations saying he should have "checked them" well I like to do the same kind of research, but I prefer to go on what is really there instead of heresay, that's all.

Re: DirectNic Demands SlicksNetwork.com Hand Over Model IDs
 

Well, apparently what was there was pretty bad. Per Slick's own post "Then it comes up here and half the board does have a problem with what's on there.".

The Dutch government even blocked access to some of his trades.

Bottom line, IMO, dude didn't check his trades and he was trading with some not-so-nice people who didn't think "teen" meant "over 18".

Re: DirectNic Demands SlicksNetwork.com Hand Over Model IDs
 

I fail to see how his trades are suddenly the issue. I thought he got shut down for questionable content on HIS site? How come HIS sites were pulled and not the trades then? I'm confused?

Re: DirectNic Demands SlicksNetwork.com Hand Over Model IDs
 

I thought you guys said those thumbnails on his site were delivered to him by his trades?

Re: DirectNic Demands SlicksNetwork.com Hand Over Model IDs
 

I don't own but a single domain, the one in my sig, and haven't had any content online for years. :)

Re: DirectNic Demands SlicksNetwork.com Hand Over Model IDs
 

No, the thumnails on his site are dealt with by him.. The "redirects" are the trades, it's part of the skim that's built into tgp trade scripts to promote growth. He's responsible for the thumbs on his sites only, he would have no control over what is on the sites that he trades traffic with.

Peaches, have you ever surfed a TGP?