Just to amuse myself.... in this delusional world that you live in, who did start the recent war against Iraq?

The fairies from the bottom of the garden?

Just to amuse myself.... in this delusional world that you live in, who did start the recent war against Iraq?

The fairies from the bottom of the garden?[/b][/quote]
Iraq is not a war, it is a battle in a bigger war.

The war began in the 80s when the US was repeatedly attacked by terrorists through out the world. The Marine Barracks in Beruit, our Embassy, the first attack on twin towers, Somolia, Cole, etc....

Finally after 9-11 we have recognized that we are in a war, and we have finally joined the battle. First in Afganistan, then in Iraq.... who is next? Syria? Iran?

This is a war that will last our lifetime, it will consist of many low intensity conflicts through out the world. Most of the stuff battles going on we will not even know about.

Mikey ... when U.S. foreign policy is being conducted in a manner detrimental to the interests of our country, then it's folly - if not unpatriotic - to fail to criticize it.

Following a policy that is guaranteed to recruit a great many more converts to radical Islam is a necessary step when it produces results beneficial to our country - i.e., Afghanistan. The same cannot be said in Iraq.

You want to talk about war with alQaida? Fine - I'm down for that. But please don't try to tell me that's what the war with Iraq was over - because alQaida wasn't there until we made it possible for them to be there.

Oh, I know ... the proof of the connection between Iraq and alQaida is underneath the massive stockpiles of WMD that binLaden and Hussein are sitting on.

PD you fail to see the big picture.

Iraq strategy had more to deal with over all stability and getting our troops ouf of Saudi Arabia....

Look for Colin's post on Power Politics in thread on Arafat. Maybe he can explain these concepts better then I can.

Mikey ... I don't think I fail to see anything at all. What you call the "big picture" I see as a fantasy consisting of smoke and mirrors.

If, as you say, the Iraqi incursion is about oil then we are marking a return to the policies of imperialism. Those policies failed. It is less likely that they will succeed now.

The appropriate lead-in to a statement like "Iraq strategy had more to deal with over all stability" was best made by that famous actor Herve Villacheze (as Tattoo in "Fantasy Island").

Uh oh, Joe6pack and Soul Rebel make an appearance. Its gonna be ugly.

I will argue till my fingers bleed that I am indeed far far more patriotic than any of you will ever be.

My founding forefathers were not ass kissing sycophants who just towed the fucking party line. They were terrorists to the Crown.

If MikeAI and Buff would have been around in 1776, they woulda been on the British side, towing the party line much the way they do now. After all, talking bad about government puts you on the side of the enemy. Right Buffy?

This is America....

we don't give a fuck what your founding forefathers did.....

What have you done that is so patriotic ?

Im not sure if you are clueless or just simply retarded. I am an American.

Define "patriotic".

By your statement I am assuming you feel that you have to prove your patriotism with visible deeds. As in you have to "do" something to prove you are a patriot.

I consume. I drive an SUV. I have a big flag decal on the back and a taz tattoo of him kickin bin ladens ass with an American flag. I yell at communist lefties on message boards, I listen to country music, love George Bush and Jesus Christ. I say the pledge of allegiance every day and have a ton of 9-11 commemorative plates. I love fireman and policemen and New Yorkers, as they are the true heros. I joined the military because it was easier than going to college, and I helped liberate Kuwait thus keeping Americans safe.

That your idea of a patriot goober?



Last edited by [Labret] at Sep 15 2003, 08:09 PM

Oh, come on now. That depends.

Talking bad about the government collecting taxes, or regulating business, or does not put you on the side of the enemy - it makes you a patriot.

Talking bad about the government's foreign policy (if a Republican is president) - now THAT puts you on the side of the enemy.

If you are going to claim that you are "indeed far far more patriotic than any of you will ever be" then you better be able to back it up....

So, again, what have you done that makes you so Patriotic ??

and again, I don't give a fuck what your founding forefathers did....

actually according to the dictionary:

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=patriot

Patriot: One who loves his country, and zealously supports its authority and interests. --

One who loves, supports, and defends one's country.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary
one who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests


So PD, I know that you and I both fall into that category because of past actions.....

I believe the military part was added later..... or I missed it, if I did, sorry...

If it was edited in after I posted, then you're just an assfuck using GFY tactics...

and only total assfucks call me goober......

you dont exactly spread a lot of sunshine yourself. i cant imagine what it must be like to wake up everyday knowing that you embody all the traits and behaviors that you yourself, despise in others. that has to be the mind fuck of all mind fucks.

i want you to know Alex that i love you. i want to help you. i want to help you let go of the self loathing. its time we got RawAlex to start loving himself instead of mocking and attacking himself and his behaviors in others.

give yourself a hug. a long, tight, loving hug. There, doesn't that feel nice? Now stand in front of the mirror and repeat to yourself ... "It's ok to be me. I like me." Now say in a more reassuring tone, "dammit, i like being me!"

now give yourself another hug.

don't let go until you feel you are ready. reassure yourself by letting yourself know that everything will be ok and that today, the first, largest and most painful hurdle was cleared. today, it became ok to be RawAlex. it feels good.

good. you did good. did that feel nice?

Mike, you see JR post. Now you know why I don't post here.

JR, one day I will be as perfect as you. You are the total and complete perfection. Perhaps if I study real hard, I will be equal to the guy who lives next to the guy who gets the honor of kissing your feet each morning. That would be an accomplishment beyond my wildest dreams.














Actually, on second though, JR, or pleasurepays, or pleasureyourself, or whoever the fuck you are, you are hereby invited to FUCK OFF AND DIE. Your are a useless piece of shit with nothing better to do that belittle others, and you add nothing to any of the discussions here. You are a waste of pixels. Please fuck off.








Mike, now you know why I don't post here. Why bother?







Alex

Alex: Did you know that I have never danced in the streets to celebrate anyone's death, not even Hussein's sons' deaths? I don't celebrate when IDF troops exterminate Palestinian murderers. Hatred? Me?

It's not hatred. It's self defense. The only time I ever attacked any Muslims was to defend other Muslims in the first Gulf War. That's right, I put my life on the line to protect Muslims. Seems to me that I've earned the right to state my opinions about their religion.

And, of course, I invite you to prove to me that all the polls which say over 50% of Muslims worldwide approved of the 9/11 attacks were somehow mistaken.

In summation, I don't hate these people -- I just want to protect myself from them, because they threaten my way of life.

And as for how I make my living, I would be lying if I said it doesn't irk me that YOU somehow consider yourself to be in a position to pass judgement on my intellectual capabilities -- cuz you're not.



Last edited by Buff at Sep 16 2003, 12:04 AM

You dumb fucking git, you don't know dick about the founding fathers. You would have been one of the cowards who said, "But it's only a small tax -- we don't want war with England."

Go fuck yourself, you trick ass bitch.

Alex, why are you so bitter? i dont agree with you.. but it would be hard to go totally over the edge like you tend to.

i used to have a lot of hatred towards my father. i wanted him dead when i was in my teens. one day i realized that the hatred was hurting me and no one else. that was the moment i just let it all go. it was one of the few defining moments in my life.

its time to let go Alex. dont hate.

Did not want?

Did not start?

Are you joking? :blink:[/b][/quote]
How can one take the position that the Americans are wrong to think there is a simple linear cause and effect with Islamic terrorism as the cause and American military action as effect and replace it with the belief that there is a simple linear cause and effect in which the Americans are causing terrorism against America.

Do you want to be a moron of type A or type B? They're both the same.

The kind of person you hate is in the mirror.

Did the US take a break from imperialism or something? I must have missed that. When did this happen?

You guys are soft. I did. I wish we'd keep a body count like in Vietnam. What's the score?

Potential Future Muslim terrorists: 39,880
Dead Iraqi tanks: 5550
American soldiers: 292

Let me ask a serious question ;-)

A popular defense of Islam as a whole right now is to not confuse the minority with the majority. Of course, it is always the minority that actually goes off into battle while those at home just pump their fists in the air.

In the absence of state actors, how does one define "the enemy"? This is the same issue that Israel has not been able to solve. A few months ago, Israel agreed to a cease-fire with Hamas and the usual other terrorist baddies. But someone, whether of those groups or independently, decided to blow themselves up an Israeli bus. From Israel's point of view, what would have been the best response? What could they do to best achieve the outcome they wish for? I ask this not as a defense of Israel but rather as the question of how a state should act vs. a non-state entity.

In war, the majority is always defined by the minority. Only a small percentage of the pop goes to the battlefield. In that situation though there is an identifiable state leader.

Whether rightly or wrongly, Islamic terrorism is being used for political gain - or rather, to alter the political structure of the world. How should "the west" handle this?



Last edited by Colin at Sep 16 2003, 05:00 AM

Ah... I should have figured your position on guns to be related to some psychological scar with your brown bear guide Dad. Is that why you became a black belt, too?

Hate the player, not the game! :ph34r:

Ah... I should have figured your position on guns to be related to some psychological scar with your brown bear guide Dad. Is that why you became a black belt, too?

Hate the player, not the game! :ph34r:[/b][/quote]
hehe.. i guess if you can't win the flimsy 2nd Amendment "our forefathers promised me a gun" argument, then.....

actually i had a lot of guns. killed a lot of shit in my life. i used to fire between 10,000 and 20,000 rounds per summer with my Mini-14's shooting seals that were picking salmon from our fishing nets. i converted one to full auto which is horribly easy. i have killed tons of seals, sea lions... shot a few moose, killed a brown bear, deer, tons of black bear, mountain goats, dall sheep, carribou etc etc etc. in the end, i just felt stupid for it all. just a personal issue i guess. i regretted it all.

one day it just seemed like shooting things was a silly thing to do. i guess i matured. nothing about trauma or anything... more just dissapointment in watching groups of grown men fly around the world, paying often 10's of thousands of dollars to shoot something just to hang a chunk of it on the wall. i dont mind killing anything i am going to eat. I think its absurd to pay $8,000.00 to a guide and to fly to Montana to chase a buffalo across the plains in a new Ford Bronco until it almost dies from exhaustion and then shoot it in the head with a .340 magnum just to tell people you have a head mount that is 3rd in Boon and Crocket as my father did.

which by the way, it makes for a pretty stupid head mount. its somewhat like bolting a dining room table to the wall on its end and painting it black.

i have seen too many trophy rooms in my life. it just seems sensless. i have seen too many tiger skins... too many full mounted lions... too many zebra rugs... too many elephant foot stools... too many sets of walrus tusks... too many Giraffe heads... too many brown bear rugs and too morons bragging about their "Big 5" hunting trips.

i think that if a person is not worried about self defense and not worried about the NWO and not worried about "The Feds" taking over as The National Rifleman would have you believe is going to happen any minute... then there is no reason to have a gun. i realized i did not have a reason to have a gun. if i felt i needed one for self defense, i would probably go buy another pistol and apply for a concealed weapons permit.

karate had a lot to do with growing up in alaska surrounded by socially retarded weirdos hiding from the feds at the end of a dirt road. i started boxing but really got tired of getting hit. that seemed silly too. getting hit really hard... really often is a shitty skill to learn.



Last edited by JR at Sep 16 2003, 06:45 AM