Re: Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?
 

$75.00 is fine for webmasters.

I will even let webmasters in for free, and buy them drinks...

Fact of the matter is that we need the webmaster back at the show, period

Re: Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?
 

:yowsa::yowsa:
Oh and Gonzo . Cocaine Chris...cmon.

Low Blow- I have a family to support, please.

I already took a break to solve this problem, dont even think that it has resurfaced.
:cryin:

Re: Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?
 

When AVN first took over IA2000, we did deal with them quite a bit, and they were happy to work with us on giving breaks to the Amateurs in attendance and giving us free space to hold our various Amateur seminars. Then, after some personnel changes, things just went silent and we could never get responses to questions again, or any assistance.We did feel a bit ignored.

The only communication we did have were AVN sales people trying to sell us booth space, but then also ignoring the comments I did have on that booth space. We had booth space at every show from 1999 to 2003, and that last show in Vegas in 2003 was the last straw. As I mentioned previously, it was getting both frustrating and tedious having more people come to our booth trying to sell us there stuff than showing interest in ours! It felt like over half the walk around's on the floor were only there to sell and promote. Complaints about this just fell on deaf ears and were ignored. It is wrong to allow people in who are not exhibitors or sponsors of the show to sell on the show floor, especially when they are leaving promotional materials all over the place and grabbing people right out of your booth! that killd it for us ever exhibiting or sponsoring again.

We also stopped going to shows when the main selling points being used were the "parties". Even avnchris made a post on AWW with the subject line, "Last Call for Alchohol......... I mean FREE Badges......" (sic). I know that is supposed to be humorous, but that really is the basic sell for shows...the party promotion before business promotion. It's also something I, and many others, are not the least bit interested in. I want to be told why I should go as it relates to my business, not my liver!

I may be totally naive, but I do believe that the real decision makers in our Industry are sick of these style of shows and would like to see something truly more business oriented. I know very few people who take any of the seminars seriously as all they are about is someone sitting on a panel saying "Buy My Shit!". Very little thought goes into those seminars, and in most industry trade shows, panel members are not allowed to promote their own products while on panel. Speakers are selected on their knowledge and ability to properly speak, not on the "old boys" network that has gone on much too long.

There really is a lot to do and a massive overhaul of the show concept needs to be done. Trade Show promoters need to concentrate on the ability of their attendees to do business, not the bottom line, as that bottom line will rise with a properly produced show.

Re: Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?
 

Why? If you're looking to increase attendance of rank and file webmasters, moving the show to a resort location outside the US isn't conducive to that goal. If program owners, billing companies and other vendors want a B2B show in Cancun or similar that should be a separate event.

First and foremost, before anything else will make any significant difference both shows need to be moved to more affordable venues. I'm not just talking about the hotel room prices, but all of the other ammenities too. I don't mind spending some coin for a nice meal a couple of nights while at a show, but for other meals I want something nearby or on site that is affordable but not fast food.

Re: Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?
 

We were rather shocked when we were charged $2 for about 10 peanuts but not as shocked as the $45+ bill for a latte, water and pastry.

Re: Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?
 

Number (3) makes me hurt just thinking about it. I don't even see how that can work -- a lot of us do both shows, and that just insures I have to be in two places at one. As it stands now, for just I'next, I am generally trying to be in three places at once, just for webmasters. Anyone who say me in Florida saw me running from meeting to meeting and apologising for not being able to stop and chat. January is generally 3x as bad - and trying to work a booth at the same time?

... I don't see how that helps?

This year's Vegas show was brutal, already - checking out and moving to the Palms, working a booth all day, and then hustling ass to the Palms to start Show #2? I sounded like a tranny hooker on a bad day, and I was just getting to the show where I could speak to my clients.

Chris, you know I adore you, but trying to put the consumer show on at the same time a lot of us will need to be working with webmasters seems... Tough.

Re: Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?
 

Chris, Vegas is a clusterf*ck to attend, I would hate to think of exhibiting and trying to talk to webmasters. I did both this year, and honestly, I won't do it again in the current configuration.

The Palms absolutely sucks. Far from everything, close to nothing, and the show floor in a night club is total stupid, sorry. It once again creates the isolation, as the "rich guys" hide out upstairs in their private lodges, and the masses huddle down on the floor. It is anything but inviting, a totally anti-social setup that seems much more intended to create an "us and them" mentality than anything else.

AEE is actually the better show now, I made more contacts and had more time to talk to people than I did at the Palms. heck, I suspect that most of the actual business at The Palms was done at the lobby bar on opening night, not on the show floor..

You want to really make it go? Here are some tips:

Get one of the smaller areas at the ventian for a couple of days before AEE - 2 days max. Make the webmaster show badges also "industry" badges for AEE, and vis-versa. Encourage the "video" people who do sell content online, or who do have online programs to participate. Make a small show floor (doesn't have to be massive), create some social areas, etc. Make the webmaster show a warmup to "the big show". Understand that the video and novelty market and the online markets are constantly merging. Why separate them by days and distance?

AVN needs to accept that they cannot continue to charge super high badge prices to webmasters. $300 for a "party pass" may be good for some people, but as a bottom line business expense, paying $300 for one show, and then $150 more for another show isn't exactly a good start. I can meet almost all of those same people without a badge in the lobby of the two hotels.

Easiest way to tell it doesn't work is just to check your attendance in Miami. The numbers are there if you really want to see. Attendance WAY down. Attendance is what makes these shows work, if the people I would want to meet aren't going, why would I go? A badge at $50 and a hotel bar that doesn't charge the same amount for a mixed drink would be a very good start. A 4 day run in Miami can easily run 3k now. I can get near enough the same ROI staying home, so why do it? Heck, 3k would get me to Phoenix, to Cybernet, and enough left over to do QuebecExpo too. You have to justify your costs - attendance should be telling you that the costs aren't justified.

I could go on, but I will let someone else take a whack at this.

Re: Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?
 

I am in full agreement with this. The AEE and Internext shows are both important to me and I want them to be consecutive, one after another, NOT running at the same time. I am not sure by AVNChris' wording what he meant exactly. The way it is now they are back to back with one day in between which is fine. If they are run at the same time like you guys did a few year ago, that will be a nightmare since we cannot be in two places at once.

Re: Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?
 

Thats is exactly what i meant:yowsa:

Re: Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?
 

how bout you just give me a life time pass right now.

ill sing praise of avn from here out.

ya im a fucking sell out, so what of it.

Re: Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?
 

Fair enough.
Its a bad habit of mine to poke fun at everything including myself.

I really dont care either way and wouldnt have known had I not been asked to pull a pretty nasty post over here about it by an anon.

I didnt know it was a problem large enough to warrant a break so in retrospect it was also in bad taste.

As long as you honor your business commitment with me - it doesnt matter to me what you do on your time.

Re: Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?
 

Yeah, I remember the year both AEE and Internext were held at same time over at the Sands. That was rough. The exhibitors were run ragged. The attendees struggled to find people because they were spread amongst multiple locations.

I despise the Palms. I was among the bumped first year there despite early arrival, their customer service sucked in how they handled it. And I will never stay there again as a result. Period.

And last year, I stayed in a tower suite down on the strip for the entire time for what one night would've cost me at Palms. I bought a badge, but I think used it for a grand total of 5 hours. Waste of time. I couldn't wait to get out of that hotel...food sucks, their bars suck, their service sucks.

Came back over for one of the parties only to find the club pretty empty yet any place to sit had a reserved sign on it for whatever "stars" were to show up later as an "attraction". Get fucking real. I'm in the business, I'm not there to worship a porn star. If I cant grab a pit, sit, have a conversation and do a little business, I'm out of there. And I was.

That pretty well ended my attendance last year. I spent my time offsite with people I actually wanted to see.

Re: Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?
 

The dual shows were a nightmare that year.
And Chris can you guys hire people that register you that arent from the retirement home?

Grandpa tried to tell me that one badge got me into the other show when I knew damn well it didnt. The guy refused to acknowledge me any further as it was about time for his break and they werent going to cut the badge that was PAID for until we got with one of the regualr staff that happened to pop in.

Re: Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?
 

Well said.

Re: Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?
 

DUde you told me you were a big baller.
Why you always trying to line up freebies?

Re: Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?
 

Why does it have to be about free booze? lol Also isnt anyone seeing the trend the webmaster affiliate is disappearing. So trying to get more people is hard to do when the industry is trying to push out the small webmaster.

Re: Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?
 

When I attend Vegas shows, I also like to hit up CES, So a schedule that allows the shows before, or after CES, in sequence, would be best. That way, one could attentd all the shows, one after another, by staying about a wekk. (Which I usually do)
But, being the frugal guy that I am, I stay downtown on Fremont street for the week for one night's price on the strip. Much less "crazy" and the people in the hotels are more appreciative, and the tipping is lower for better service.

And there shouldn't be a fee, or a very low fee for admission to qualified attendees.
Just my opinion.

Re: Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?
 

That's the good and bad of vegas for a show.

Everyone has different tastes in hotels, and there's something for anyone's preference and wallet. It makes for a very attractive destination because of that and there being so much to do other than the show.

But that is also the problem with Vegas shows. It's a BEAR to get everyone you want to see in the same place at the same time. If you dont have someone's cell number and/or a pre-arranged meet, you can both spend 5 days in town and never once see each other.

Re: Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?
 

Also, timing of CES/AEE does not really allow for running a show like Internext BEFORE they come to down due to the proximity of New Years.

Re: Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?
 

Real old fashioned way to solve that.
Bulletin board with pieces of paper on it.
Right inside the gate, and don't charge people to use it, for shit's sake.

Re: Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?
 

I fear this thread will come to an untimely end . . .

Re: Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?
 

I'm sure there's a high tech equivalent...hell that's an opportunity for someone. I'd say 80% plus of show attendee's tote smart phones of one sort or another.

Re: Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?
 

That's the problem...all that connectivity, and no one to connect to.

Re: Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?
 

Augmented Reality Porn Apps?

Re: Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?
 

right on gonzo

Re: Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?
 

Shameless plug time...

Adorable Audrey... our show is catered specifically for people such as yourself. I really hope you give Cybernet Expo San Fran a try in 2010. I'll do what I can to make the experience great for you.

Re: Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?
 

Some input and observations from us that are irrelevant.

First off Chris ... your missing the point. Cancun? Lets run the price up even higher.

I DONT WANT A VACATION WITH EVERYONE IN THIS INDUSTRY AND I REFUSE TO CONTINUE PAYING FOR SHOWS LIKE IM GOING TO ONE.

Secondly... AVN signed a longterm contract to score a bigger deal. Good for you but now you are unable to react to a changing market yet you guys are in hopes we are going to bail you out until it ends?

In a free market thats called a poor business decision. Someones mistake is others gain.

Honestly the way AVN has treated the web side of this business for years as redheaded stepchildren ... I cant see many rushing to your aid to clean up a mistake you guys made.

And now I turn the gun on us on the web as some of us have observed ... we are turning into the video side of the market... the trend several of us are seeing is programs don't want to deal with webmasters, and they don't have a clue how to make money online any more, except to scam it.

They don't want to deal with the webmasters.

This entire business needs an enema.

Re: Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?
 

It's fucked across the board. There are so many things broken about the industry or rather the business models it is built upon, that it is a complete and total mess.

And at the same time, even those who see it and might be wise enough to want to make moves to fix it are in a position where they'd have to sacrifice a huge chunk of their business to do so.

Who wants to be the first big PPS program to adjust your membership models and subsequently pay affiliates what that sign up is really worth? The sheep will move to the next $100 per signup weekend program. And those who have real traffic will just go cut a prepaid deal with whichever of your competitors will give them the best deal.

Meanwhile you aren't going to increase your number of signups significantly even if you feed it quality traffic yourself. Why? Because thanks to things like cross sales we've made savvy users absolutely paranoid about giving up their credit card number to anything that even remotely smells like porn. The people who should be our best customers will usually very quickly run across a site they want to join that gives them nothing but a cookie cutter back end and slams their card from so many angles they have to cancel the account with the credit card company and get a new number.

So much for repeat business.

Re: Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?
 

I LOVE that idea!

Re: Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?
 

ive never uttered those words to anyone, let a lone you.

im a traffic guy, always have been, always will be.

and in that same breath, i do not care if i am making 10 dollars a month or 10 thousand, ill take any freebie i can get from anyone at any time.

everyone rich ive ever spoke to got that way from not spending money on things they didnt have 2.

i drop in here from time to time to read whats posted here, i am not here to start any issues or problems.

if you do not want a webmaster who youve known to be in this biz for over 10 years visiting, please tell me so, and ill head back to the zoo.
:scratchin

Re: Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?
 

When you get thin skinned?
And I will agree if its free its for me!
Where did you move to?

Re: Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?
 

i guess in my older years im trying to move as far away from name calling and shit strirring as possible. its never done me a bit of good really.

i moved back to myrtle beach sc. i still have my house (being rented currently) in charlotte and ive rented a beach house for the time being until i can figure out what life holds for me next.

as it stands i am in ohio with my programing team working on a new traffic venture. pulling an all nighter currently. heading back to the beach on the 5th or so, then down to FL for a few days to work on a deal with a fellow traffic webmaster, see if we cant swap some of my gray hat non productive mainstream traffic for some of his black hat productive adult traffic.

guess im getting old gonz.. if its not about making a dollar, saving a dollar or securing a dollar all ready made, im not really into it any more. both time and life are short. im not going to waste either unless its on one of those 3 above.

how you doing? back in ga eh? tell erica i said hello, and that ive never wished ill of her, instead wished the best.

Re: Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?
 

There has been some good constructive ideas here, but one of the things I see lacking is how the show is marketed. The show organizers need to look at whom they are trying to attract and for what.

lets take adult expo because its the perfect example.

Used to be you had to have some sort of reason to be there. You had to at least ut up the facade that you were involved in the industry...even when a CES badge would get you in. They didn't advertise on the radio and late night TV to come see suzy sukskok at the Sahara Convention Center Fri afternoon where sumlameniggas will be rappin their latest attempt at music and imwithstupid.com will be giving away 1000 dollars cash to whoever can best imitate steve o

Sure there were tire kickers, lots of them but they at least had to bother to print up a business card that related them to the industry.

When AVN figured out they could make money by inviting the dumb masses to see suzy, sumlameniggas and "morans" all for the low low price of 50 bucks per person per day or whatever the focus of the show shifted....from a business show to a fan show.

What they failed to do was offset the exhibitors cost, now the exhibitor is there to entertain the fans, not to do business and the cost to provide that entertainment has gone WAY up and exhibitors are dropping out because there is no ROI on suzy, sumlameniggas and a moran.

The same thing has happened to the adult internet shows that have been taken over by porn valley.

I mean when you have Joanna Angel speaking on a panel to adult webmasters and she says her site gets "5 million hits a day" that should tell you something....This actually happened and the guy next to me says to me shit I didn't know she owns google.

The bottom line here is if you want the show to be industry focused market it that way and do some q c on your product.

I dont go to shows whose main focus is Suzy Sukskok will be at the fantasy island booth and sumlameniggas will perform at the party we are throwing on Saturday night which, btw, costs 100.00 per person to attend but we do give you a chair and a bottle of andre cold duck but only if there are at least 4 of you......

Re: Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?
 

First seminar I went to at a show in '00, I was eager to learn but left dissapointed. Second one I spent half asleep with a drink in my hand listenning to the same crap I'd heard at the first. Never bothered with a third.

Re: Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?
 

[quote=MikeSouth;829718

I mean when you have Joanna Angel speaking on a panel to adult webmasters and she says her site gets "5 million hits a day" that should tell you something....This actually happened and the guy next to me says to me shit I didn't know she owns google.

.[/quote]
She also said not to do anything but constantly shoot content for 2 years too. And I still dont think she owns google.

We heard a lot of bullshit come off of that panel. Program owners that talk in 3rd person was the other example. Shit I didnt know The Rock was in porn.

Joanna is a smart and articulate woman. She does know how to market to her fans but I dont think she knew how a typical person gets into this business without the backing of the west coast. There were a lot of new girls starting out in that biz in that room in Tampa and they asked a lot of questions outside of the seminar to diffuse a lot of misinformation on that panel. She should have kept KevinG on staff to help her out. But who am I to say anything to her as she is doing quite well. Point is that I dont think this was the best use of her as a show draw.

I still contend and tell Jay this constantly that the Tampa show was the best Cybernet Expo Ive ever been to. And Ive been to most of them in the past even when I was dog assed broke and staying 15 miles offsite to be able to attend.

Re: Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?
 

MikeSouth, one of the problems is when the show people and the attendees no longer have the same goals. Basically, a good "business" show has the goal of bringing all the major players together under one roof, creating a situation where people can meet, get business done, find new products, programs, whatever, and get things done. When the show has that goal, they profit when things go right.

Well, in AVN's case, the webmaster shows are now just excuses for a 3 day bender and exchange of beers to keep people as "top notch bros". The AEE show is now more about entertaining the public rather than getting business done.

I am sure that in both shows, business is done - but it isn't the goal of the shows, as as a result, the purpose of the shows has slipped away from the average webmaster / producer.

AVN's aim is purely bottom line at this point, so if selling $50 tickets to the droolers and selling $300 badges to the webmasters is the way to make money, they are there. But as has been shown in the last couple of years, the attendance is dropping, the exhibitor count at the AEE show is dropping (the back half of the show floor this year was, umm, more like a flea market than anything else). The writing is on the wall.

Re: Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?
 

Age is inevitable for all of us but it beats the alternative.
We are both back in Atlanta. I had family and a house here to return to when the task was completed.

Erika is doing well with the chance to make decisions for herself. And she agrees life is too short to be worried about board drama.

Re: Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?
 

There is nothing anyone can say or do to offend me ;) We are who we are.

Re: Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?
 

The days of "panel" seminars being acceptible has come and gone. From what I've seen in the numerous comments across several boards on the future of trade shows, that's probably the most universal. The seminars have to be improved, more formal, more relevant, more informative.

Atlanta Forum last year brought in speakers on general business topics. Those went over well, other than being a bit early in the day for this crowd.

The live shoot demo by Spannow and crew at Cybernet got rave reviews.

I don't recall anyone even mentioning any of the panels at various shows in a positive light.

I hope there are a few show organizers lurking out there, reading along, taking notes...

Re: Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?
 

I have only been to 2 trade shows. The Costa Rica show and the Atlanta forum. Costa Rica to me was not much of a biz show, but more of a vacation for freeloaders. The Atlanta Forum I did not get to experience too much because of the person I went to those shows with. In my opinion, consumer shows would be the most beneficial. You target the people you want to really do business with. Having drinks with webmasters and half the people at a trade show who usually don't do squat in porn in a waste. I consider those the "bro" and "big baller" shows.

I say target the consumers and if you know what you are doing, you really don't need many affiliates. Webmaster shows have become nothing but a popularity dick sucking contest and with the economy, not many go to them as much as they did.