Re: Morals and this industry
 

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. :okthumb:

Re: Morals and this industry
 

Not just that but there's the education on SEO that he missed out on by turning down those offers.

Now he's not only out $8000 but the knowledge he potentially could've learned himself from doing the work.

Re: Morals and this industry
 

Ryan .. no fucker is going to put food on your table for your family; you need to make that happen. In order it goes Family, Friends, People who owe you money :okthumb:

Re: Morals and this industry
 

You should really stop teabagging random people, it's just not nice!

Re: Morals and this industry
 

Dear Sudden.

I would love to send you a wire. Please send me your wiring info.

Thank you.

Huggles.

Re: Morals and this industry
 

Its amazing how this board works, you think you've read the thread, the someone like Sudden will quote something that you completely missed so you have to go back & re-read the thread until you find it, lol

Re: Morals and this industry
 

yes, I am and the biggest lesson I learned from my own family about humanity:
the more you do for them the more they fuck you in the ass and not in a good sense.

I bet the last drop of sweat on my balls that the guy whom Ryan turned down will call Ryan a moron, after he learns from somebody else.
:)

Re: Morals and this industry
 

wiser Serge likes to add a small correction:

"Are they your friend? Are they your IMMEDIATE family*? No? Then fuck them and fuck them hard."

* - wife/husband/children

Re: Morals and this industry
 

"Men who know how to use asterisks do it better." :clapping:

Re: Morals and this industry
 

I think in Ryans situation I would have done the honest thing. Why, because when it comes to business where you make a living providing a service, such as SEO and/or design you have to. If you don't, word DOES get around and people don't do business with you anymore. No business equals no money, period. I'd rather be honest and have some money, than be dishonest and have no money at all coming in.

Would you pay someone for SEO or design if you knew they had a reputation for being dishonest? My guess is you wouldn't.

Re: Morals and this industry
 

I would never pay anyone for SEO...

Anyone worth his salt should be making so much money himself freelance he doesn't need to hire himself out at $25.



LOL

Re: Morals and this industry
 

I'll hire my SEO skills out to you for $25.











(It'll only get you a minute or two worth of work, but... :)))

Re: Morals and this industry
 

Hit me up:)

Re: Morals and this industry
 

For you..it might be money well spent.. ;-)))

I'll buy you a good dinner and pick yr mind instead ;-))

Re: Morals and this industry
 

Ryan - you could have been learning on their dime

What more could you ask for?

SEO opt, read some, reverse engineer a little and then tell them it takes a few weeks to see the results
Nothing could have been worse than the so called SEO Guru's that made the rounds in years past
They (he) really couldn't produce results so they (he) went around selling himself as an expert


You know years back Billy Idol decided he wanted to become an Idol and did so by naming himself one (well that, some talent and a cool guitar player named Steve Stephens)

Re: Morals and this industry
 

True, the ones that know how to work the engines shouldn't have to hire themselves out, and they wouldn't be having a bad christmas either. :whistling

Re: Morals and this industry
 

And SEGuru did the same!!!!!

Well minus any talent and totally lacking anything cool

ahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

Re: Morals and this industry
 

Absolutely.

Ryan,
There's nothing wrong with making a moral decision, but I think your problem was one of ethics, not morality. IMHO, you have a moral imperative to care for your for your family. You said that the mortgage and bills were piling up. There would have been nothing immoral about taking the job. Especially since you know a little and you could have learned while you earned.

Re: Morals and this industry
 

I have done plenty of projects on a learn as you go basis. I usually try to keep some track of how much time I did that was not actual design or code work and I just don't charge for that time.

No moral or ethical dilemna there imho. :blink:

Re: Morals and this industry
 

Exactly! It's having a conscience that's the problem! :unsure:

Re: Morals and this industry
 

Pardon me.

I don't see a single shred of evidence that "morality" is an issue here. That being the case, negotiating the semantic difference between morals and ethics is hardly worth exploring.

You got offered some work. You turned it down, and are now crying in your beer (domestic - apparently your Christmas is so bad you can't afford an import).

You did so for one of two reasons, as best as I can tell - you either didn't feel you could do the work, or you needed an excuse to cry in your beer while wearing your "E" (for Ethical, of course) t-shirt.

If you turned it down because you weren't able to meet their requirements or expectations, you were just using common sense, IMHO, particularly if you are starting up a consulting business.

If you did not realize that you could earn as you learn, as many have suggested, then ... well, whatever.

This thread works well for the holiday season. The rabbis and bishops have made pronouncements from on high, and the acolytes have cried hosanna in the appropriate places. It has played out like watching “Miracle on 34th Street” - it's an amazing film for those who haven't seen it before, and oddly comforting for those who've seen it many times before.

Re: Morals and this industry
 

Learned alot by making this post, that much I can definitely say. I would also have to say it was one of the most 'hopping' topics brought to this baord in a while...

I will admit it will alter the way I handle things a little bit but for the main part I will stay as I am. Alot of you really are comparing apples to oranges here. I would have no problems (now at least) doing any of the things Nick mentioned were 'immoral' but huge money makers. Such as spam, etc.. Now I would though, as my ass wil end up in jail.

I am not here to defend myself, to all of you who have said.. "Failure"

You're right - I can't deny it. I have failed myself and my family in alot of ways, mainly myself.... I haven't been able to find where I really feel I belong in the business world yet - although honestly I am really starting to get a good feel for what I would be excellent at.

Unless a major company gives me a chance though, will take some college at least. My chance with the one major company is coming up tomorrow evening when I have a phone call with someone that has been set in place for 10 days. I hope I can convince him I have the qualities I have picked up on having the last 2-3 months.. and show him how it will improve his company's botom line.

I have no problem being an asshoe and firing people - I have no problem being an asshole to a boss I disagree with if I feel I have no idea what in the hell they want - I have no problem with growing a set of brass and using it.

I just choose where to use it differently then some do - I belong in a situation where I have an underling to do the type of shit you guys can do day in and out... That way it doesn't weight on my concious. Not self reghteous, just who I am and how I feel .. Good or Bad ..

P.S. 10 Years down the road I very well may say 'fuck that - thinking like that cost me millions' but right now it's how I feel... so until then ...

Re: Morals and this industry
 

You seem to have an external locust of control.

Re: Morals and this industry
 

This is one of the best threads we've had on Oprano in a long time. :okthumb:


I must admit I've only glanced at most of it after reading Serge's first post. That was a winner imho. :)

Re: Morals and this industry
 

sig test
testing 1,2, 5

Re: Morals and this industry
 

I hope you do not mind my slight adjustment. It feels so pretty to me now.
:okthumb:

Re: Morals and this industry
 

So, someone comes at you with a plan to do big commercial <deleted> in a country where it's legal. No risk to you with the way the deal is set up. Just plain easy money. Talking millions a month. You gonna do it? Or are you a failure?

Re: Morals and this industry
 

Stupid question to ask a man with 4 children under the age of 13.

Last idiot that said anything about <deleted> to NIck almost got his throat punctured by a salad fork.

Very stupid.

Re: Morals and this industry
 

Idiot...

Are you drunk? Or high?

Its not a matter of morality...thats falls under a matter of decency.

Re: Morals and this industry
 

Cutting that pretty tight there. I may not have the private school edumacation but in my book morality and decency are one and the same.

There are things that we do not touch because of our morals. All of us.

And while Morals can often used as an excuse for failure they also can be the reason for success.

From dictionary.com:

mo·ral·i·ty ( P ) Pronunciation Key (m-rl-t, mô-)
n. pl. mo·ral·i·ties
The quality of being in accord with standards of right or good conduct.

de·cen·cy ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dsn-s)
n. pl. de·cen·cies
The state or quality of being decent; propriety.
Conformity to prevailing standards of propriety or modesty.

Re: Morals and this industry
 

And I have 3 kids too, what of it? Nobody accused or even suggested that anyone in this conversation would be attracted to a deal like that.

That's the point.

Our morals would not allow us to be involved with a deal like that and further more our consciences would probably force us to beat the shit out of the guy who suggested it.

Re: Morals and this industry
 

I reiterate...

idiot!!!!!

Morality is set by society , decency is within you.

Re: Morals and this industry
 

WTF is this shit!!? What sort of fucking queston is that?

Re: Morals and this industry
 

Do you understand the whole underlying philosophy of "I have the morals I can afford"?

Are you truly that fucking dense?

If you can't fucking understand that, and use <deleted> as an example, then I'm writing your stupid fucking ass off.

Re: Morals and this industry
 

Why rise to the bait LOL

Sarettah is being an idiot on so many different levels ...

Fuck off , Russ..... :)

Re: Morals and this industry
 

If you think I'm taking this shit too serious, I've been accused by Kaiser and his crew of <deleted> back when I ran Netpond.

That accusation was hard to shake off, you are a fucking idiot to bring that up.

A BONAFIDE FUCKING IDIOT to bring up <deleted> on any webmaster board as a means to make money.

Re: Morals and this industry
 

Exactly!

:okthumb:

Re: Morals and this industry
 

I'm seriously spun up here.

Re: Morals and this industry
 

I think this should be in the posting rules!

Re: Morals and this industry
 

Ok, there is a disconnect somewhere here.

For me, my morality is formed completely on what Nick is calling decency. To me, they are one and the same and that is where confusion lies for me.

No one has accused anyone of fucking anything, sheez.

I used it as an example of something that none of us would touch.