Sorry I have only read 10 words in this thread and the obviously best things for Paysite owners to do is

GET RID OF TGP'S PERMANENTLY - they encourage leeches, turned paying customers into freeloaders and provide porn for underage users and others without means of paying

regrettably for at least a little while more they are here to stay

Here come look at my TGP, we give away 10,000+ free pictures everyday
and we don't let our gallery makers put more than one ad up and they pics have to be good quality and of a certain size



Shemp - nothing personal, only business - you seem like a great intelligent guy and have the respect of many (except you operate TGP's)

Do you have any idea how much more money you would have made over the past 3-4 years if you and many other's like you didn't give away an abundance of free porn?

Want to see titties pull out your credit card surfer? No Credit Card - bank account, phone billing - oh ... underage - well get off my bandwidth and go look at legal pics of Britney or something

and Shemp to prove my point, you personally can not make earn more than $50 per day from the top spot on your TGP, how many hits does that gallery you sell for $1500 a month get a day?

http://www.sexlist.com/?catid=
If I'm reading correctly your sexlist stats say you've done over 313,261 just today to that page, so someone paying $50 for one of your prime spots may get let's say 30,000 clicks and they send maybe 10,000 clicks to the sponsor
so they have to do 1 in 10,000 (or a little better to be profitable)

am guessing you weren't doing that so selling the spots became a better business model (which I can respest and admire)

Furthermore
Your add says!!!
The New Shemp, an Original TGP. Free Porn for the People!

Why do you tell people porn is free
NO NO NO
NO FUCKING FREE PORN, what are you, up for the porn sainthood?
You got to pay to play


I really hope you are a millionaire a few times over, if not you could have been

and again - nothing personal - only business

and I'd don't care to hear from the TGP peanut gallery but Shemp and sites like his have cost many hundred's of thousands if not millions of dollars and have been one of the primary reasons for the decline in the adult on-line porn industry

I :inlove: Vick :)

Why is it that so many people claim to have great conversions with TGP traffic... and so many others think that TGP's are the cause of all evil and everything that is wrong with adult? I have always found that to be pretty amusing. There are a pretty big descrepency in opinions and clearly people are still making a lot of money. I never see 100 people crying "thats not possible" when someone says "i am doing 1:500 with this gallery on The Hun"... on GFY. That tells me something.

You cannot put the genie back in the bottle Vick, no matter how much you might wish to. All you can do is out think and outwork the rest of the idiots out there. Anyone that thinks that is too tough... is in the wrong business in my opinion. I see a lot of morons making money today. Just as many morons as there always has been. If anything, there are more.

You cannot stop free content or stop people from using the word "Free". The word "free" is a mainstay of marketing both online and off. It's one of those magic words that grabs people attention that leads to SALES. The market will decide the business models. That is how a free market works. People follow business models that work. Thats how a free market evolves.

Porn hit the web, surfers were ignorant, money was easy and so many people lament about the "good ole days"... rather than understanding that every business evolves and it's up to the businessmen to evolve just as fast or be left behind. Those getting left behind today are complaining that everyone should be working together to turn back the clock as if that was possible. You can't make surfers ignorant and innexperienced again. You can only understand them and improve how you sell to them. They are your market.

just an opinion.

I :inlove: JR













What can I say , my opinions can change ;-)))

If the adult industry had used the same amount on lawyers in 1996-1997 as we do today, then I´m sure we could have killed the TGP business before it took off, but this was not how we as an industry choosed to deal with it back then, and now in 2004 free porn is here to stay...

However that doesn´t mean that we are doomed into a neverending battle between free porn and paid porn - we need to refocus on our own business model, have TGPs be part of the paid porn business by making them depended on revenue and fresh content from paid porn, and to take more control of the marketing. This is how paid porn will take control of the free porn again - not by the use of lawyers, or politicians, but by the use of $$$ and creative minds.

ANY traffic can be converted into money. It's just a matter of whether or not the ROI makes it worth it.

I know a couple of guys from Victoria that have been the top resellers for both Maxcash and ARS, using purchased Hun spots. Of course you also have the people that can't pay their bandwidth bill when they get a Hun listing.

At the end of the day, it just is what it is. There's no one right way to to do this or there would be one program, one link list, one tgp, one billing company, etc.

KK,

Very true post.....

I think I gave them money back (shudders) ;-))

However , what with adult sponsors shaving and everything else....

I'm hoping to either fail or bail in the next couple of months and corner "Traffic"...it can be non-adult or adult.

Few mainstream people will take adult.

JR - you're right, the genie doesn't go back into th bottle
so all we do is make the most $ we can hoping for the TGP movement to fall under it's own weight - Also while we move into other more profitable/enjoyable industries

also JR, many bullshit in this business? Who's really going to have the balls to say I lost money on the TGP spots I bought boo-hoo-hoo - think that's what you're really going to hear?

and the $ you're talking abut being made today doesn't compare what what was made in 1997-2001 - you know it and I know it

and I am one of the stupidest companies/webmaster ever by not saving/investing enough during that time to retire - so yes I somewhat deserve a retard tag, never thought the $ would stop rolling in

The vacations, house, cars and clothes, dinners, furnishing, theater and so on and so on were all very nice (many others were rumored to have pissed away their $ on dope or women or what have you, at least I got some substantial things)

I was too fucking stupid to read about, study and understand new market economies, it was all here for me to study, the Gold Rush, the Industrial Revolution, Radio, Movies, TV

So while I will piss on what I perceive to be some of the causes of the decline of revenue generation from the adult on-line industry I know I bought my own share of it as well


Read what I posted before. TGP owners do not earn a fraction of what they possibly could - no one can reasonably or logically dispute that



MOST/MANY TGP's do not depend on Sponsor Programs for the bulk of their income - they could not convert well enough to maintain reasonable profit margins so they went to selling gallery spots (which I must admit is a gr4eat way to monetize) but how long until those buying gallery spots can convert well enough to be profitable (I've expected it to happen sooner than now so ....)

So basically the TGP's really don't have to care about the sponsor or conversions, they have to PT Barnum and wait for the sucker to be born every minute

When that happens TGP's will need a new revenue generation model or they may go under

Truth be told, TGP'S and paysite no longer work together, TGP'S are the actual enemy of the Paysite - more so that P2P networks and Newsgroups

Sykk is doing 1:200 with hun traffic and non-nude sites. Sounds pretty 97'ish to me. In fact MANY people do quite well with TGP traffic while others say right now, today that it is a complete waste of time. Many people do quite well listing the same thing in the same TGP that others claim is a waste of time.

I don't share your optimism that TGP's will go away. I don't think they will. I am also VERY comfortable with the fact that I can reach out with a few paid link spots or banners and reach a few million people looking for what I have to sell. It's my job to always be good at closing the deal and to stay ahead of the curve.

Where are you going to get your traffic when TGP's go away? Everyone is going to do whatever works best and any shift will happen with the industry as a whole. If the new hot thing is creating yahoo groups... in a matter of weeks there will be too many Yahoo groups to make it worth while. Whatever happens in the future and with whatever changes may come, the basic problems will ALWAYS remain the same...
That is that some will adjust, adapt, overcome and effectively compete as people are today with making money with TGP's and many will just quietly fade away complaining that someone, or something else is the problem and the reason for thier failure. It is always your choice as to which of those people you will become.


They are working quite well for a lot of people. Sykk is a good example. There are countless others.

KK said "I know a couple of guys from Victoria that have been the top resellers for both Maxcash and ARS, using purchased Hun spots"

sounds like TGP's and paysites work pretty well together still.

The TGP illiterate have spoken!

so are there any counters out there that just count views and clicks? nothing more, no ads, no dialers, no toolbars, no spyware, no sport scores updates. JUST A FUCKING COUNTER?????



no need to pay me .05 cents a click.

Best analogy Ive seen in this thread is that TGPs are to the adult world what free programming is to television. A vehicle to sell advertsing.

I can tell you Shemp isnt here to justify or defend the existance of TGPs but rather to hopefully work better together within the industry.

And Ill restate it again...like it or not. TGPs remain one of the last EASY ways of getting any traffic to your programs.

Um, hello, that's what server stats are for.

Well gentlemen we have a very large difference of opinions on TGP's

But the bottom line question will always remain

Would we all make more money if TGP's didn't exist (as well as the glut of free porn)?
No need for long drawn out explanations or justifications

Just a simple yes or no?



and there is much I personally disagree with being posted here and I feel I have given some reasonable examples (and some of the comebacks haven't even scratched the real issues $$$$$$)

Differrent strokes for different folks and so on and son and scoobie doobie doobie

If it hadn't been tgps, it would have been something else Vick, that's the nature of evolution.

Yes, and as a advertising vehicle, then they will hopefully evolve into better understanding/balance between free and pay. I think having Shemp and Vick here is good - the debate would be boring without some different perspective :)

We are currently working on programming features, which will make us better at converting/retaining each unique TGP´s traffic (the demographics can be very different at tgps), however that doesn´t mean that TGPs should stop working/improving their own traffic - making it more focused on buying/consuming.

Some TGPs are good at working with their traffic, however many hurt their traffic by trying to protect surfers from ads, and overfeeding them with hardcore content. Others are just standing still waiting for some input - ex.:

- why is it that TGPs still have rules about pics/videos not being on html, but must be directly linked from the main page of the gallery - sure if you trust your paysite partner or submiter, then it would not hurt the surfer to watch the pic/video on page with ads to the paysite?

- why use the word "free" on the TGPs, when we want people to "pay" - if TGPs owners are right about smart surfers, then surfers already know its free, so why keep reminding them? Its like saying "hey, you are stupid if you pay".

- why list video galleries with several minutes of videos, when 3 * 10 sec is enough for a surfer to get a feel of the content - do we want him to click more galleries on the TGP or go to the paysite, then it won´t happen if he has already cummed.

- why list galleries with little creativity, which shows ALL to surfers, but leaves little to the imagination (ex. cumshot/moneyshot) - porn is a fantasy, not a animal planet documentary, we do not see hollywood putting their "plots" in the trailers.

- why have a advertising vehicle, where the driver of the vehicle do not communicate with his AND potential advertisers... advertisers might have some constructive feedback based on experience working with other advertising vehicles :)

Yes

Um, hello, that's what server stats are for. [/b][/quote]
that would be too simple.

Gonzo amd others told me that this would be an interesting board for me to post at but i have to say with all respect, the arguements against TGPs are pretty much the same ones that were voiced in 1998. What has changed is that the "bad" galleries you mention above, are now provided by the sponsors/paysites.

Why do paysites provide hardcore galleries to affiliates that have been in the business for 10 minutes? Why do they bust their ass and have designers building the "lowly" and "hated TGP gallery?

You guys are smart enough to know that the consumer drives the business, not you. The customer determines who will succeed or fail, not you. You want to "shape" the business to your mold, for your benefit and you want everyone else to conform to what is best for the paysite owner....

I really appreciate the earlier post analyzing my business plan. i really do.

i went through something like this a couple of years ago when the TGP2 movement told me i would be out of business in a couple of months...well damn, guess what...

anyway, im not feeling very good about the negativity towards my way of making money...not really up for a long drawn out battle either, as i have 4000 galleries to review tonite.....trust me, i have nothing to prove to anyone on this board...

no.

We have also heard the arguments about paysite programs having shaving systems, cookiecutter sites etc. since 1998... lets just say this business runs in circles, however once in a while we have a chance to make it better, because of new technology, ideas or situations. This is one of those times - the hosted galleries, paid spots etc. will and have changed business, now we just need to keep making it better :-)

Hosted galleries are new in most paysite programs - many programs having cookiecutter sites will mostly like also have cookiecutter galleries... but just as the TGP business is evolving then the paysite business is also evolving with more focus on making $$$ by providing quality - sure cookiecutter sites will still be here, however just as TGP who do not add hosted galleries, or sell their gallery spots, then they will miss opportunity.

When I talk about TGPs, then I´m not thinking about anyone in particular... like I said in a previous post, then there are different demographics at the TGPs, and I also see more and more tgp owners becomming business people or working with business people in making the TGP concept better. The evolution has begun.

I think its important that we understand that this is not a TGP2 movement, where you have to follow certain rules. This is business, and like you said, then money talks - why else would all major TGPs sell their gallery spots? And this is just the beginning, soon they will be 100% hosted galleries and gallery spots, and after that, when they want more money, then they will start optimizing their sites/concepts working with the advertisers, etc. etc.

Oprano is a no bullshit zone, with no bullshit people, and no bullshit business... you do not need to prove anything else :awinky:

Geez....doesn't anyone know how to fucking load mkstats or analog or any similar server side stats program anymore?

How the fuck do you people know what your traffic REALLY looks like if you aren't counting it yourself?

Shemp, I do not think there were any attacks on you. People just giving their opinions, just like you have given yours.

I certainly do not think anyone disrespects the succes you have built, and that you did not make the rules of the game, you excelled!

The fact is TGPs are here, there are not going away, so those who do not like them, better learn how to operate with them.

I have personally been working on my own TGPs for months now, and are about to launch 2 others.... I wish I would have jumped on the bandwagon back in 98!

no.

it's all numbers. this industry will always take quantity over quality and figure out how to make money off of it. simple math, which would you rather have?

100,000 visitors that'll convert at 1:5000

or

2,000 visitors that'll convert at 1:400

No brainer right?

And we're in a market right now where the price of both bandwidth and content has been steadily falling like a rock. The smart marketer learns how to use that to his/her advantage.

Vick -- all due respect, but you're coming across as pining away for days gone by with absolutely no knowledge of the TGP game.

TGPs are not responsible for global warming, the war in iraq, or the fact that britney spears is marrying some wigger dancer.

I think this is a Pearl!

Anyone knows it's not TGPs fault, it's Bush's!!

So how many TGP owners have become millionares from TGPs only??

The silence is ear deafening :awinky:

The silence is ear deafening :awinky: [/b][/quote]
I think Shemp is waiting for you to tell him which TGP your running.

The silence is ear deafening :awinky: [/b][/quote]
It's probably the same silence you'd hear if you asked "How many TGP owners have read this question". :awinky:

It's probably the same silence you'd hear if you asked "How many TGP owners have read this question". :awinky: [/b][/quote]
Well you know folks like Richard,The Hun,AL4A and their ilk are mere paupers.

I tought we talked about how many - not who?

Yeah, that could be it... where do TGP owners hang out?

Well my gift for the obvious allows me to state is seems we are at an impasse with our opinions - Very unlikely to change anyone else's
(and it is about opinions, not people - hopefully none of us have truly taken offense)


In parting please allow me to make this statement


If you like the TGP model so much -

what about opening a McDonald's in your neighborhood and giving free cheeseburgers to everyone who drives through, you might mention (in a soft voice) a Big Mac Meal can be bought

Then allow the very same people to drive through as many times as they like and everytime get a free cheeseburger and tell all their friends about the free cheeseburgers they get just for driving through (and a little ad for a Big Mac)



I have another idea in mind but will save it for another time

Why do you think McD's has a 99cent menu? It's so they get people to the store and hope they buy the higher priced items. Grocery stores advertise "loss leaders" in the paper almost every week. Again - "give away" something in the hopes the customer will buy more of the higher priced items that you have. Have you ever been to Costco on a Saturday? I could eat a full meal plus drink and dessert with the samples. Main stream has been doing this for years :okthumb:

It's not that anyone likes it so much... its that people accept it as a fact of the adult business. I don't think anyone agrees with your assumptions that "No more TGP's" will make anyones business more profitable.. because you forget that all traffic has to come from somewhere and 1,000,000 million retards will shift their focus in 5 minutes to compete for that traffic creating the same issues and problems you percieve to exist with TGP's.

What you suggest with your McDonalds analogy ignores the simple fact that people make money from TGP traffic and TGP owners make money. No one is "giving everything away for free" - people are obviously paying and it continues to work, or the business model would either cease to exist or it would change dramatically. Just like a restaraunt does not give all it's food away for free, because it would fail.

Peaches I think you're missing my point or we're looking at it differently

McD- .99 menu- money is paid (even if at a lost) and a limited amount is given


TGP - FREE - no money is paid and an almost unlimited amount is given


Like I said

Different strokes for different folks


Is the music industry in a slump? Could it be for 2 reasons - lack of exciting new product and almost unlimited free downloads of any music you could want

wow, when I scroll all the way down and see 7 or 8 big timer's looking at this exact thread, it scary.




:popcorn:

I think Shemp is waiting for you to tell him which TGP your running. [/b][/quote]
Um, ok.

this thread just keeps getting better:) Shemp, I hope you stay around these parts, your adding good stuff to a already tasty gumbo.

I had a link list in 97 that I opened just to see how it worked, well I found out it was a lot of work, it did well till I got busy with other stuff(growing a baby hosting company) wish i would have stayed in but ohwell I did meet tommy(one of my best friends in this biz)Greenie and others whom have always been there to help me in anyway I needed.(THANK YOU ALL:)

Now I just started a TGP this summer to help push some traffic to a top secret(dont worry it'll get out:)proggy and some other "family" proggys. Do I wish I would have did one years ago, fuck yeah, but it's never to late to learn a new dance:)


again, thanks for a good thread, everyone here has strong opinons about things that are important to them and without that the gumbo would suck.
imho :)

edit to add, if anyone here wants to trade some traffic with my new baby let me know
www.picsnmovies.com

Shemp, Gonzo has some celeb galleries and a template I have designed for him to be used only on tgp's we like ...

I can't provide 100's of pics on a regular basis, but I can give you a good gallery now and then that surfers will return for ... and about a third of what I gave gonzo is exclusive studio stuff our photogs have shots of UK page 3 girls and glamour models.

Let me or Gonzo know if you have any ideas on how we can work together ;-)