Re: Max Hardcore Trial Outtake - "You Look Better with Puke on Your Face"
 

I do agree with you, really, that people's perspective on this matter is totally skewed and blown out of proportion. I am much more afraid of car accidents than STD's.

Whoever said in jest we should have warnings that "this is not real" like jackass, etc. I think is actually on to something. I have said it over and over again, that while I'm opposed to regulating or criminalizing content, I do think our responsibility is more to provide at least a little education, warning, and perspective/reminders to people that that what they're seeing is risky behavior, fantasy/acting, would be a crime if done in real life, would be physically painful, is fake, etc. That's where I get really pissed about extreme sites, when they go out of their way to insist everything is REAL, not staged, etc. That was the problem I had/have with the sleep assault site, etc. I don't have a problem with rape fantasies and role plays, but I do have a problem with people presenting them in a way that seems to condone real crime or wants customers to believe a real crime was committed.

While the Max Hardcore exit interview with the girl may have been motivated purely as a get-out-of-jail-free card, I think it's a great thing to do. I think it humanizes the girl and puts the fantasy into the right context (if it's presented to the customer). I think extreme porn (and porn with taboo or dangerous themes) should be presented with a reality check. I try hard to do that myself on our sites. If someone loses their boner because of a reality check then THAT person is the kind of freak I would label as Hammer does: a menace in need of serious help.

I have an interesting anecdote that relates to this, but we're about to eat and go to bed so I'll save it for later.

Re: Max Hardcore Trial Outtake - "You Look Better with Puke on Your Face"
 

Personally I think that the only thing that a porn site should do to kill a boner is to create an orgasm.

Re: Max Hardcore Trial Outtake - "You Look Better with Puke on Your Face"
 

Thanks- It wasnt in jest. Ill be using it right behind a 2257 statement from here on out.

Re: Max Hardcore Trial Outtake - "You Look Better with Puke on Your Face"
 

Funny Trixie but I can't help seeing your condom argument as contradicting itself. In one breath you say that testing is fallible which seems to indicate that a performer would be smart to demand condoms be worn if they had a brain and yet in the other breath you argue that you're against mandating condoms.

Are you saying that the laws we have in our countries are useless? Do you realize why we make laws and mandates? To protect the morons that don't follow the rules on their own. So, by not mandating condoms, you're condemning a lot of innocent people to death that have sex with performers who didn't use condoms because they believed their partners drug test was proof that they'd be safe.

I'm not arguing for mandating condoms, I'm just pointing out that arguing two sides of an argument with yourself is kinda funny.

Personally, although I hate watching videos with condoms, I think any performer that doesn't wear one while they have sex with a complete stranger (test or not), is a fucking moron.

Re: Max Hardcore Trial Outtake - "You Look Better with Puke on Your Face"
 

The condom issue is actually a pretty funny one, and something that the porn industry needs to get use to if it ever gets the status of "acceptable". It's called Occupational Health and Safety. In the same manner that city workers have to wear reflective vests, highrise construction guys have to be tied off so they can't fall off the buildings and so on, condoms in porn may in end up being one of those rules of life.

Quite simply, if the government's don't act, they risk liablity for providing an unsafe workspace. More importantly, they risk financial ruin if someone gets sick on a porn set because no OHS rules were enforced.

The day porn becomes legit, this will all get more difficult (and much easier to regulate)

Re: Max Hardcore Trial Outtake - "You Look Better with Puke on Your Face"
 

A day that will live in infamy.

Re: Max Hardcore Trial Outtake - "You Look Better with Puke on Your Face"
 

Are you sure about this? How many? Just a ball park will do and no jokes about filling one. I say this only because a lot of people toss this argument around like a mum and apple pie kind of thing.

Re: Max Hardcore Trial Outtake - "You Look Better with Puke on Your Face"
 

I don't know an exact number, let me start polling some HIV patients and I'll get back to you on that one.

Remember these cases? http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/7348.php

Darren James had unprotected sex with 13 female performers while shooting in Brazil in 1999 and he's just one performer and what about all the other non industry women he had sex with? And how many of those 13 women ended up getting the virus and passing it on? When he returned to the US he passed the virus on to another performer, Lara Roxx who then also tested positive and hit the news. How many men did she give the virus too? Then Jessica Dee became the third porn star to test positive and started a massive scare in the industry during which time 53 performers were quarantined.

How many of those 53 performers actually ended up contracting the virus I don't know but even if it was only a few and those few along with the original 3 had unprotected sex with several non industry partners that we don't know about and those partners had unprotected sex with other partners, it doesn't take a math genius to realize that that could add up to a LOT of people. Maybe you could eventually fill a ballpark with the people that got the virus from the trickle down effect.

Sorry about the trickle down part. ;)

Re: Max Hardcore Trial Outtake - "You Look Better with Puke on Your Face"
 

That is exactly the mum and apple pie argument I was addressing. You just can't "argue" it. Many feel that way about abortion and Iraq.
However, when I mentioned earlier about choosing your partners, dude had been to Brazil fucking trannies as well. That is tantamount to a crime. This is not the norm.
There are many industries with worse occupational hazards. How many sex scenes do you see in movies at the cinema where the hero pulls out a condom before they roll in the hay....albeit under the covers....but certainly not reaching for a condom.
That girl that got aids also did a double anal dp. Young and foolish and all that. However if you want to ever get old and foolish like me, you better be young and smart like I was.

Re: Max Hardcore Trial Outtake - "You Look Better with Puke on Your Face"
 

Like I said, I am not arguing for mandatory condom use, I used that as an example to point out the seemingly 'have your cake and eat it to' post Trixie made. It just sounded strange to me for her to make a case for using condoms while at the same time arguing against making it mandatory.

I think the argument that people would make about Hollywood not making a big deal about using condoms in sex scenes is that we all know they're not really having sex. On the other hand, since the performers actually are having sex in porn videos, some people get the wrong message.

Re: Max Hardcore Trial Outtake - "You Look Better with Puke on Your Face"
 

In the words of a great visionary Canadian, the medium is the message. Having said that, do we contrive our message to match our morals, or do we let Max Hardcore do that for us?

Re: Max Hardcore Trial Outtake - "You Look Better with Puke on Your Face"
 

The Max Hardcore case is not going to tell us anything useful. He isn't in court because of his extreme porn sites, he's in court for shipping extreme porn DVDs to a supposedly conservative community. If he loses the case it will be bad for anyone running extreme sites even though in reality we're comparing apples to oranges since most site owners don't ship content on DVDs.

Re: Max Hardcore Trial Outtake - "You Look Better with Puke on Your Face"
 

Hammer. HammerhammerhammerHAMMER.

There are a lot of things I believe in personally, behaviors I think are smart . . . actions I like to take to protect myself, etc. but that I DO NOT WANT THE GOVERNMENT TO MAKE FOR ME. This is supposed to be a fundamental part of our freedom in this country: choice. You sound like a total commie the way you're talking about people being so stupid they need the government to step in and take their choices away.

I also disagree with comparing this industry to other OSHA regulated industries because we are depicting SEX. Something regular people have recreationally. SEX. An activity that's our birthright. Or biological drive. How you have it, who you have it with, all of that stuff is NONE OF THE GOVERNMENT'S BUSINESS TO REGULATE, nor is it the industry's business to regulate it. There are a lot of people (like my partner and I) who are making porn depicting our real sex lives, not a studio act. Condom mandates would be a really invasive, restrictive and unnecessary thing to foist upon amateurs who make real porn depicting their real sex lives. For example: we're trying to get pregnant (and just set aside your judgment on us for doing that and pretend we're a "nice, normal" couple). We have spycams and we make porn. So basically a condom mandatory law or regulation would be like telling us we aren't allowed to get pregnant the regular way since we are on cam all the time.

People need more/better education, not more laws and mandates. These issues are more complex than just being all for something or all against something. You can be critical of and concerned about something (condomless sex in porn) without automatically concluding the best remedy is a bunch of inflexible, freedom-taking rules and regulations.

Re: Max Hardcore Trial Outtake - "You Look Better with Puke on Your Face"
 

Clarification: of course I support studios, directors, actors and actresses who insist upon condoms for shoots. I just don't think the industry or the government should demand it across the board.

Re: Max Hardcore Trial Outtake - "You Look Better with Puke on Your Face"
 

I think you guys are a very nice, normal couple. But my opinion of normal might be a bit skewed. But nevertheless, not particularly abnormal apart from maybe the camera deal and that is only a maybe.

Re: Max Hardcore Trial Outtake - "You Look Better with Puke on Your Face"
 

BTW, we suggest condoms for anyone who is not with their partner. If they know each other and trust each other, that is entirely up to them to make that call.
But there are tons of things that condoms won't prevent and then it opens a can of worms on oral sex....etcetcetcetc....ad nauseum

Re: Max Hardcore Trial Outtake - "You Look Better with Puke on Your Face"
 

Likewise! And thanks for the character reference (Hammer thinks it's wrong for us to have children). ;) I think we're a super vanilla, 99.9% monogamous, responsible, healthy couple and totally boring except for a few little kinks here and there.

Re: Max Hardcore Trial Outtake - "You Look Better with Puke on Your Face"
 

Yeah, once people start in on mandatory condoms, that logically means all sex should involve barriers and I think it's fucked to insist on dental dams for every pussy-eating or ass-rimming. I have no desire to suck cock or eat pussy or ass through a latex barrier. Unless maybe there's some weird cyborg role play going on. I do like licking around the sides of panties, though. It doesn't make it safer, but I do like to have a few barriers sometimes for the tease.

Re: Max Hardcore Trial Outtake - "You Look Better with Puke on Your Face"
 

Yeah, we know what normal is....lol

Re: Max Hardcore Trial Outtake - "You Look Better with Puke on Your Face"
 

Funny, I don't recall shipping a unit to your address.
So, your comments are kind of "irrelevant" to this discussion.

Re: Max Hardcore Trial Outtake - "You Look Better with Puke on Your Face"
 

This is like the 3rd, or 4th? such comment?
Sort of reminds me of the color alert system.
I've stopped watching over my shoulder.
If there is something to be considered, spill it. Otherwise, thanks, but it's not funny anymore.

Re: Max Hardcore Trial Outtake - "You Look Better with Puke on Your Face"
 

Ya know, the guys on the Alaskan fishing show take a risk too. Some of them die doing their Jobs.
Every one of those ships would be perfectly safe in the harbor......but that's not what ships were made for.
Some of the fishing guys don't stay long...others do.

Re: Max Hardcore Trial Outtake - "You Look Better with Puke on Your Face"
 

China has some funny ideas about who, or who should not, have children.
But we don't live there.

Re: Max Hardcore Trial Outtake - "You Look Better with Puke on Your Face"
 

very relevant. Emp that was not even a good try. Its a machine. You can masturbate into a fence if you like, but I would argue that it is not sex. Therefore, irrelevant to add to this discussion.

Re: Max Hardcore Trial Outtake - "You Look Better with Puke on Your Face"
 

GAH -- I know that. Something can still be risky while being considerably LESS risky than many other things.

I believe in taking calculated risks. Obviously part of the calculating is comparing it to other risks. But you still need to acknowledge that THERE IS STILL RISK, particularly for women or guys being poked up the butt by wet penises, even with AIM testing. I am definitely not one of the people worked up into a panicked lather over it and I totally agree there are many much more risky jobs and recreational activities in the world and have said so many times, I just don't think the risks should be summarily dismissed as inconsequential even if they are much lower and less life-threatening than people make them out to be.

Seriously. Just because something is less risky than fishing on the Bering Sea doesn't make it not risky at all. There are a whole lot of still-risky things that are less risky than that. Because that shit is totally risky! That's why there's a show about it! I totally agree, though, that if those risks are tolerable enough to make an entertaining show about it (where they recently showed drunk driving, too, without any sort of public service announcement or lecture about it and the drunk fucker fell into the water) then people should certainly be able to make porn without condoms if that's what they choose to do.

Re: Max Hardcore Trial Outtake - "You Look Better with Puke on Your Face"
 

Your usual inane blather, about nothing of importance.

Re: Max Hardcore Trial Outtake - "You Look Better with Puke on Your Face"
 

I guess my point is, I pretty much agree with your thinking.
I'm sick to death of the "Nanny state," wanting to dictate rules and regulations to us.
Tired of the governmant trying to protect me from myself.
You wanna feel safe and use condoms? Fine.
(Not gonna sell, but fine)
You wanna not use condoms? Fine...your risk.

Re: Max Hardcore Trial Outtake - "You Look Better with Puke on Your Face"
 

Gotcha -- thanks for clarifying.

Re: Max Hardcore Trial Outtake - "You Look Better with Puke on Your Face"
 

Will someone please point out to me where in this thread I supported government mandated condom use? The commie would like to know.

Re: Max Hardcore Trial Outtake - "You Look Better with Puke on Your Face"
 

Of all the blather on this or any other board I have seen you on, yours is up there with the most banal and/or inane. I think, Emp you are calling the kettle black again. When you miss a point, which is very frequently, this is your response. I believe you have constructed a macro to do this. Now, I will continue to read your words of wisdom and have a good chuckle. Or have you been on tv lately so I can tune in or record your pitch for your milking machine.

Re: Max Hardcore Trial Outtake - "You Look Better with Puke on Your Face"
 

So why don't you do something about it instead of whining. You voted for these clowns, I am sure. Or are you one of those Libertarian thingys....???

Re: Max Hardcore Trial Outtake - "You Look Better with Puke on Your Face"
 

"we by no means intend to abolish this personal appropriation of the products of labour, an appropriation that is made for the maintenance and reproduction of human life, and that leaves no surplus wherewith to command the labour of others"

I guess that Karl means fuck the condoms and get busy procreating....
There you have it, you Commie bastard....

Re: Max Hardcore Trial Outtake - "You Look Better with Puke on Your Face"
 

You said "Do you realize why we make laws and mandates? To protect the morons that don't follow the rules on their own. So, by not mandating condoms, you're condemning a lot of innocent people to death that have sex with performers who didn't use condoms because they believed their partners drug test was proof that they'd be safe."

That's why I made the Commie remark.

But the whole of what you said puts us in a dog-chasing-its-tail situation: You're saying my "contradiction" is funny, and in the same breath you're agreeing with me, thereby contradicting yourself if I, indeed, am contradicting myself.

Sounds like we both agree that condomless fucking in porn has risks but that we don't want to see condom use mandated. Or am I misunderstanding you?

To clarify, YES, I think a smart person will use condoms when fucking strangers or anyone with tons of sex partners, whether in porn or not, however I do NOT think that choice should be made by anybody except the people fucking. If a studio or director or partner insists upon condoms, then the person has a choice whether or not to work with them unlike if the government or CCBill or some broad gang of industry knuckleheads decides to require it for everyone.

Re: Max Hardcore Trial Outtake - "You Look Better with Puke on Your Face"
 

Ill get you the proper red shit for Florida you commie bastard!

Re: Max Hardcore Trial Outtake - "You Look Better with Puke on Your Face"
 

What do commies where in the summer? I sure don't want to wear my fur hat in August.

Yes Trixie, we agree, I was just pointing out that it struck me strange for someone to make such a strong case for the use of condoms and then not be for some sort of requirement to use them. Then again, I won't deny that I think there are times when the government needs to pass laws for the good of the masses when those masses are too dumb to think for themselves. Like I said, most of us know that murder is wrong and yet there are people that don't seem to agree so we have a law against it and a punishment for failure to comply. Sometimes it becomes necessary to have a higher authority make the rules. However, I don't think condom use in adult films is one of those cases.

Re: Max Hardcore Trial Outtake - "You Look Better with Puke on Your Face"
 

That would be a quick way of getting hammer into some trouble. I got my first two degrees down in Miami. A couple years ago these kids I'd seen around campus selling political T-shirts were down on Calle Ocho walking around with some pro-commie signs and they were attacked by an angry mob of old cuban guys in their 60s & 70s. The footage made the local news, it was pretty funny, the old guys chasing the college kids down the street trying to hit them in slow motion with their walking sticks and umbrellas, throwing their coffe cups at the car they jumped into. They asked for it though, alot of those older guys (and younger ones too) went through some serious nightmares when castro took over.
Communism isn't a joke down there. I wouldn't dare an enemy to wear a shirt like that in Miami. I know you're playing though gonzo, I just wanted to tell that story. It still makes me laugh.

Re: Max Hardcore Trial Outtake - "You Look Better with Puke on Your Face"
 

Castro overthrew a gangster president and Meyer Lansky. Those guys that got run out of Cuba should have been very afraid. The country was becoming a gangland haven created by a dictator that seized power himself.
Cuba is in a financial mess because the US has been boycotting it for so long. How many countries could stand up against that and still have a higher literacy rate and lower infant mortality rate than the US?

Re: Max Hardcore Trial Outtake - "You Look Better with Puke on Your Face"
 

LOL. Just curious, what would happen to you and your business if a theoretical Castro took over your country tomorrow?

Re: Max Hardcore Trial Outtake - "You Look Better with Puke on Your Face"
 

No idea, really. It is way to hypothetical. What would happen to you and your business if your country was blockaded for forty years, harassed, invaded and choked by a foreign nation many times your size. The Cuba you see today is a creation of that blockade. Who knows what would have happened if Fidel had been accepted into say, NAFTA.
Another thought. If your country was run by Meyer Lansky, do you think you would have a hope in hell of running a legit porn business?
Too many questions and too many whatifs to make a rational judgment.
It might be a good movie script, though.

Re: Max Hardcore Trial Outtake - "You Look Better with Puke on Your Face"
 

Our continued boycott of Cuba after all these years is ridiculous. Kennedy tried to overthrow Castro in the Bay of Pigs and fucked it up for everyone. I want cheap Cuban cigars and to be able to vacation in Cuba. Hell, it's a quick plane trip for me.