shouldn't listen to the catholic church so much. The book was fiction, but there is much evidence supporting the basic tenet of what it was written around.

The catholic church has for centuries quelled other beliefs through violence, stolen pagan symbols as its own, created an entire corporation out of faith. I would not trust the Church for anything. The latest scandals involving the relocation of sex offending priests should serve as a glaring reminger that the Catholic Church will do anything to protect its place.

An interesting quote to think on from my favorite movie.....


[/b][/quote]
That certainly ain't Milton's "paradise lost", what is it?

shouldn't listen to the catholic church so much. The book was fiction, but there is much evidence supporting the basic tenet of what it was written around.

The catholic church has for centuries quelled other beliefs through violence, stolen pagan symbols as its own, created an entire corporation out of faith. I would not trust the Church for anything. The latest scandals involving the relocation of sex offending priests should serve as a glaring reminger that the Catholic Church will do anything to protect its place. [/b][/quote]
It was going to be a perfect career for me...


But the buggery put me off.

That certainly ain't Milton's "paradise lost", what is it? [/b][/quote]
It's from the movie The Devils Advocate One of the best speeches/scenes I've ever seen in a movie.

That was a good movie

btw, you're confusing Dead Sea Scrolls and gospels that were found in Egypt [/b][/quote]
I'm sure I am.. i'm going by memory. I used to own the movie but my wife has it since we seperated.

It's from the movie The Devils Advocate One of the best speeches/scenes I've ever seen in a movie. [/b][/quote]
heh to each his own, i thought that movie was terrible. anything with Keanu Reeves in it for that matter

heh to each his own, i thought that movie was terrible. anything with Keanu Reeves in it for that matter [/b][/quote]
Oh.. I can understand not liking the movie overall, though I love it, but I have a hard time thinking anybody couldn't really enjoy those final confrontation scenes with quotes like the one above and these....

I mean......... in my opinion if there really was such a thing as Satan he would operate and talk exactly like Pacino did in this film. The devil doesn't "make" people do it. The entire subtelty of putting things in place allowing people to make their own decisions to lead to their own demise. Perfect example is his obsession with winning the murder case when he KNOWS his wife needs him. Satan even GIVES him the option of backing out but....


That's a masterful job at illustrating that point.

It's from the movie The Devils Advocate One of the best speeches/scenes I've ever seen in a movie. [/b][/quote]
which "devil" would that be?;)

out of the thousands of interpretations of variations of Revelations, which does he do a masterful job of portraying? Judeo-Christian? Literal?, Muslim? Mormon? Lutheran? Episcopalean? Baptist?:)

furthermore, beyond and before the bible, which literal or metaphysical interpretation would that accurately represent.. pre-christ pagan? norse? Native American indian? Greek? ;) wouldn't even fit into Hindu or Buddhism, and that is about half the world.;)


just curious.

which "devil" would that be?;)

out of the thousands of interpretations of variations of Revelations, which does he do a masterful job of portraying? Judeo-Christian? Literal?, Muslim? Mormon? Lutheran? Episcopalean? Baptist?:)

furthermore, beyond and before the bible, which literal or metaphysical interpretation would that accurately represent.. pre-christ pagan? norse? Native American indian? Greek? ;) wouldn't even fit into Hindu or Buddhism, and that is about half the world.;)


just curious. [/b][/quote]
My own personal idea of what the devil wold be like. :awinky: Since I think neither God nor Satan exist my concept is based on what I believe a truly effective Satan were to be if he existed.


A complex figure that isn't as simple as black/white and good/evil. One that knows how to push buttons and attack your weaknesses all the while letting you make the decisions along the way that doom yourself. One that knows how to shade and frame issues to best exploit one's personal weaknesses.

you know, in some belief systems, lucifer was cast to earth after spawning a war in heaven, along with other fallen angels. some are said to exist without form, taking the form of humans. This was God's punishment to lucifer, who was jealous of the attention God was paying to humans, thus sparking the conflict. What a fitting punishment, a thousand yards bound to earth;)

but thats just one way of looking at it. the important thing of any religious belief is faith, faith is the only thing that without, they all crumble. the characters and parables change with the stories and ages.

That would explain a lot around here? I wonder what my name as an angel was? :P

In all seriousness I basically like the movie because it paints a complex Satan that isn't just the caricture an evile being making someone do bad. Nothing is more evil than setting someone up to make their own choices that damn them for all eternity and pointing out that they have no one to blame for it but themselves. saying something like "guilt is like a bag of bricks. All you have to do is set it ddown" and having someone to believe in that wholeheartedly leaves them open to so many possibilities it's scary.

I am known by many names....


LOL

nick would be like azazel, a trickster spirit;)

TE... heres one view of the heirarchy of angels from a couple different sources.. notice how close to humans the theory of angels gets as civilization advances. points to a leader of men as having higher etherial qualities, eh? :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hierarchy_of_angels


Also note that the original heirarchy of angels would have (at least from this interpretation) put Lucifer as a Cherubim, not a lowly angel...his contact with humans would be minimal.

in fact the most popular fallen angels, like gabriel and michael and such, come from lower orders, further separating the heavens and the earth and making a good papal case for separation leaps of faith, methods of control by the catholic and other churches.;)

its all about indoctrination and $$$.

nick would be like azazel, a trickster spirit;)

TE... heres one view of the heirarchy of angels from a couple different sources.. notice how close to humans the theory of angels gets as civilization advances. points to a leader of men as having higher etherial qualities, eh? :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hierarchy_of_angels


Also note that the original heirarchy of angels would have (at least from this interpretation) put Lucifer as a Cherubim, not a lowly angel...his contact with humans would be minimal.

in fact the most popular fallen angels, like gabriel and michael and such, come from lower orders, further separating the heavens and the earth and making a good papal case for separation leaps of faith, methods of control by the catholic and other churches.;)

its all about indoctrination and $$$. [/b][/quote]
Oh yeah. Religion has always been nothing but a tool to control others and get a hold of their money IMHO. I got so disgusted with my catholic church and their constant money grubbing I refused to go to my CCD classes and such when i was a freshmen in high school. The rest of my family believes but none go to the catholic church anymore.