The WMV files that are protected will not play on anything but Windows computers. :(

It will play (soon) on portable devices, set-top boxes, DVD players etc. :)

It will play (soon) on portable devices, set-top boxes, DVD players etc. :) [/b][/quote]
They don't play on my Mac or my iPod and I doubt they ever will.

They don't play on my Mac or my iPod and I doubt they ever will. [/b][/quote]
Just checked one of our paysites OS stats and 98,5% of the surfers which visited today had a windows system. I do not see that number changing drastic within the next 2 years.

It would be great if there were a DRM system, which was accepted by all - but since this is not the case, then windows DRM with 98,5% coverage will do :)

Just checked one of our paysites OS stats and 98,5% of the surfers which visited today had a windows system. I do not see that number changing drastic within the next 2 years.

It would be great if there were a DRM system, which was accepted by all - but since this is not the case, then windows DRM with 98,5% coverage will do :) [/b][/quote]
In otherwords...get a proper computer ;-)))

In otherwords...get a proper computer ;-))) [/b][/quote]
Don't you have a virus to remove or go get dewormed or something?

I love Mac people, they're so much fun. :lol:

It's a cult! I have to deal with Cory and his brainwashing on a daily basis. It scares me. :unsure:

Don't you have a virus to remove or go get dewormed or something? [/b][/quote]
ahahahahahahaha

Yeah... :(


I'll shut up then....

Back on topic…

AEBN uses cross platform DRM and Apple, who has 80% of the music market, uses a cross platform DRM.

Just seems like this is the way to go and not get locked into a platform dependent file format.

There's a good reason to have as many working platforms as possible for the time being. Real, Divx, etc are all competitive infrastructures with market share. This keeps Microsoft on their toes, so to speak.

As to the Mac issue, no one has DRM that works with it, and it's a Mac problem with the headers, not a Microsoft problem they won't fix.

I'll also say that while Tuckers only human and possibly missed a phone call (especially since I wasn't doing any business with him back then and I dont recall Playa having been launched) I find it odd how Gonzo's conference call,

"Yeah real good. We are still waiting in the conference room downtown for that cocksucker to call us back with all of our clients here for that implementaiton confernce call."

turned into Dirty Dougs meeting in Atlanta, "If you are buying drinks at the next industry event, I am due about 250 thousand of them. Gonzo is correct that you were supposed to meet at 230 Peachtree, Atlanta. "

Just my observation.

DRM works on Macs.

AEBN has vids that play just fine on a Mac and have DRM.

Music sold at the iTunes store has DRM and they work on both Mac and Windows.

WMV files with DRM don't work because Micro$oft hasn't included this ability in their WMP for the Mac.

Doug was responsible for the project so he kept better notes on it than I did. Nothing odd about that. The meeting was missed plain and simple and now in the past.

Remember...theres always more facts and people involved than meets the eye.

Just an observation.

Thanks to Vooman for providing the answer to my question in amongst the drama!

Anyone you're at liberty to share who is running NatnetDRM that has something posted where I can see it in action?

Well, I am still waiting for my technical question to be answered, assuming any DRM people reading this are still interested in getting back to the business discussion that was lost amonst this other tangential nonsense.

Ofcourse you can encode for both real and windows media, but it has to make economic sense, and for most paysites it doesn´t.... 1.5% out of $1M income is $15K - thats $985K from drm wmv efforts, and $15K from drm real efforts - then take into consideration the extra cost of maintaining 2 systems, and I´m sure that there will be close to zero profit on the drm real efforts. Depending on your content, business model etc., then I would say that the "average" paysite out there will have to do several millions income before its something to loose sleep over - and how many paysites are pulling in millions?

Also DRM wmv will be spreading beyond the PC in this and the years to come, so I´m guessing that more and more of that 1.5% will be able to watch DRM wmv in the future.

Can you say charge backs as users buy a membership only to find out they can't view the content.

The paysite that I manage had everything as WMV files and then we added Strongbox membership management which broke Mac users from being able to view WMV files. Mac users are less then 10% of her membership but became 100% of hassle instantly. We ended up re-encoding everything as mpegs and all is well now.

WMV with DRM also do not work with Linux or anything except Windows.

As far as WMV appliances growing just keep in mind that Apple's iPod has over 80% of the music player market and it doesn't play WMV files.

Also Linux and Mac market share is growing while Windows has started to decline.

Already established paysites who change to DRM wmv should ofcourse make a introduction periode (2-6 months), where old members are send to the old membership area, and new members are send to the new DRM wmv area. You can even forward old members with windows OS to the new members area. In time those 1-2% of members, which can not play wmv will cancel/expire, without causing chargebacks or support problems. On the tour all samples should be in wmv/asx format, and if you are really paranoid, then tell that the site works with windows (that word will scare all of the hardcore linux/mac users away ;-)) - or you can filter your tour traffic, so people with mac/linux etc. are send to another site...

New sites should have no problems, if they use the tour steps above.

Just send all your Mac/Linux traffic to me and I'll be happy to take their money then.

Well - in porn we sell movies, not audio, so whatever format the current mp3/ipod players of the world is using doesn´t apply to us.

When Mac and Linux have 10% or more of the market, then ofcourse paysites will adapt, and offer drm to them, because it will make economic sense by then. But like I said before, then that will probably not happen in the next 2 years, so why loose sleep over it... DRM for WMV is here today, and it works :)

Thats the spirit - the market will solve the DRM issues :)

Thats the spirit - the market will solve the DRM issues :) [/b][/quote]
Yeah I agree. I think all the places that I don't send traffic to should be as unfriendly to non Windows users as they can be.

Or you can just filter your traffic, and keep all of the evangelistic mac/linux users for yourself $$$$ :)

Doug was responsible for the project so he kept better notes on it than I did. Nothing odd about that. The meeting was missed plain and simple and now in the past.

Remember...theres always more facts and people involved than meets the eye.

Just an observation. [/b][/quote]
Once again, Gonzo proven to be right, as he only speaks the truth...

:okthumb:

That is a bummer , for tucker

Just goes to show you sometimes people make mistakes in their judgements

Also on an other note, I had the great fortune of Talking with VooMan on the phone yesterday, and he was very helpful and went above the calll of duty in answearing my questions.. it was truley a pleasure, and thanks again vooman!!!

KK
Here is an "observation" for you.
DRM is like opinions. Everyone thinks that their shit is the latest and greatest but so far it has been smoke and mirrors.
The bottom line is that if you sit around and talk shit, you get nothing done.
The thing is getting the work done and the performance of the product and the people who claim to know it, sell it, and support is vital. Sounds to me like you became an expert overnight. I've been doing this ever since DivX started making their claims.

If you can't get the deal closed then you might as well call yourself John-Michael Cataldi.
(If you have not had the pleasure of meeting John-Michael, ask Gonzo. He will be happy to explain the Cataldi Doctrine)

History repeats itself, those who do not study it and take head are DOOMED to repeat it.
I would prefer not to throw a multi million dollar deal to someone who doesn't have the common fucking sense to return a phone call or to cancel a meeting.
:rokk: [b][i]

Dravyk, drop me an email to andrew at nat net dot comma. I have an idea that might answer your question.

HP, we have demos on our site, but you can also go to http://www.emx.com.

JoesHo, it was a pleasure chatting with you as well. Thanks for the kind words. :)

Anyone know what ever happend to Enscaler (Strem Green)?

Enscaler is another on of those groups that talk the talk but cannot walk the walk.
We helped to pay for the development of their DRM and they assured me that their DRM could not be craked, hacked or otherwise fooled into issuing a license without paying for it I was offered $180K if I could crack their "Security". Guess what folks, I did it in 15 seconds. Did they pay...hell no. They changed their name to Stream Green and now, or last I heard, they were scamming other folks into buying into their crap.
Hey Gonzo, does John-Michael work for Stream Green?

:rokk:

BTW, don't expect them to pick up the tab for dinner. They cost me $1K at Red Square in Vegas.

Check out www.drm-systems.com

Send us an icq at 27701318 if u want to talk or email sales@sexmoney.com

Doesnt really say much.
How about some pricing for the folks looking for a solution in the thread?

I looked at the site and I am not impressed. Big surprise there.

Look, if I can't load your DRM solution( wrapping engine and licensing server) onto one of my servers in my collocation facility, it is WORTHLESS SNAKE OIL.

I am not sure if you have figured this out yet, but most of the companies that claim to have a DRM solution are out of business. Why? Who cares...The point here is that I am not going to constantly re-wrap and or re-load all of my content, roughly 10 thousand hours, legally licensed, each and every time a DRM solution provider goes under.

If you have a real DRM solution, that I cannot crack, that I can wrap content and serve licenses from a server that I own, in a colo facility I own...then I will talk to you.

I understand that you want to ensure that you have some control so that a John-Michael Cataldi doesn't use your product without paying for it. However, those of us who are real businessmen, that survived all of the dot com crashes did so because we are not stupid and we do not rely on people or products that we can't use after you vultur capital runs out.

:headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall: :headwall:

What I'm seeing here is there's an opportunity for someone to step up with the right product, business and marketing plan and own DRM as it's still wide open.

I also tend to agree with Doug. There's a huge investment in time to wrap these videos and if you dont have the ability to serve the licenses yourself, you could find your entire library rendered worthless overnight because your DRM provider went tits up.

We take this same risk with our processors, but the difference with processors is you just cut in a different join page. The idea of rewrapping thousands of hours of video is not pleasant.

Whether you are into the drama or not, this does make it important to consider how the DRM companies and their owners conduct their business as part of whether you hook up with them or not regardless of how technically proficient their product is.

Best I can tell, no one is offering to sell you a run-your-own license server deal.

http://www.dmdsecure.com/products.htm is one of the server DRM providers.

Personally I think most paysites can feel safe, if they choose providers like http://www.natnetdrm.com/ which have already proven their stability in the hosting business.

But yes, more and better solution would be great - competition is good :-)

I actuallly ran into this very issue. All my video is already uploaded to my server, I use MAS and like it very much altho I have to admit I'm still learning it. One of the features that I'm using is automatic thumbnailing of any clip I upload, works well, a few bugs but FAR better than doing it by hand.

Anyway, PlayerDRM had talked about intergrating with MAS, I guess the files would be indexed, and thumbnialed then wrapped, but for this to happen the wrapping would have to happen on my local server, and could not be sent back and forth like the other solution, including playerDRMs that I have seen. Becuase of this, DRM came to a halt and we are still not using it. If they finially do get aroung to a full intergration with MAS I would surely take another look and would most likely use it.