Hey Hey Hey No Baltimore
I live close by and don't want a bunch of porn mongers clogging up the inner harbor B)

Would like to see a Northeast summer show instead of Florida

New York maybe? Philly?

and why Vegas every year? Ok I'm the only one not thrilled about Vegas with the exception of the Cirque shows

New Orleans was great for shows, would make a great winter show and there is gambling

As far as panelists, I've enjoyed speaking with Colin Roundtree in the past but business is different now
Who's really going to give up any real info without plugging what they have to offer? Sometimes you get the plug with no real usable info

Processing is what to me is most important to hear about, then possible legal issues, then tech issues and what everyone else is trying to push out new


Joe may be on to something with a more "roundtable" format

I'm also a fan of sitting in the lobby and letting everyone pass by. Anyone I'd like to make contact with or speak with comes by sooner or later

Between the lobby and possible roundtables a lot of contacts can be made. Maybe the roundtables should be on the showroom floor (toward the back so everyone has to go through) to keep bodies where the exhibitors are

Ya shoulda made Vegas this year then Vick. The FFN's and friends are hitting KA.

http://www.ka.com

Have been looking at KA HP, the show looks great
in 2 weeks am going to Orlando to see La Nuba (again)
Then sometime later this year going to Vegas just to see Zumanity (then maybe off to the Elvis Chapel for a wedding - not kidding)
Already have VIP tickets to see Varekai when it comes here to Baltimore next May (saw it last October in DC)


This has nothing to do with the actual Internext show but I've always thought if I was going to do anything at a show for Cloud 9 Cash affiliates I'd get tickets for affiliates to one of the Cirque shows - most likely O

ROI on parties is near impossible to measure and from what I've heard in the past few years if anything is getting worse

Did I heard correct? That Maxcash wasn't going to do a Gameworks party this year. That was always one of the best functions of the year, lot of fun, very nice event and a great atmosphere

How about getting a hotel that accomodates everyone..

seriously - moving from the venetian is horrible, im in the luxor and i booked something like 3 months in advance. The purpose of a convention is to see people and meet face to face, but what makes it harder is making everyone spread out across different hotels...

This by far is my biggest turn off.. next time around, make sure there are enough rooms, because if this happens again come Miami, I'm not going.

Vick,

Yep no Gameworks :( That was one of the events during Vegas i actually looked forward to going to also :(

Wonder if it would be bad form to take over that event in 2006? Hmm...

Biggy,

I hear ya on the hotel issue too, Gary and i are actually in the Luxor despite holding several sponsored events in the Mandalay which even after we paid close to 40k to them, we were still unable to get ANY decent room!

Caught Zumanity during Internext last year. It's a bit different for a Cirque show, and I'm not just talking about the adult aspects. I enjoyed it and laughed out loud a number of times, but it's not one I'd likely go see again. Excellent couples show though and very unique. If you get "couch seating", figure on being part of some "audience participation"....

As of right now, I agree. O is the definitive Cirque show with an absolutely amazing theater and stage. KA is trying to one-up it. I'll let ya know if they succeeded sometime next week.. :okthumb:

You have to throw ROI out the window for a party. At this point you have to look at it as one of the following:

1) a celebration of a good year

2) a way to show appreciation to your affiliates and others you do business with

3) a branding exercise that lets everyone know you're big enough to be for real and have enough money to play

Yup, far as I know it isn't happening.

That's a shame, definitely one of the best events of the week and one where a lot of business does get done or at least relationships get started which lead to business later. And that's all you can really ask for as an attendee....

Wish someone had picked that one up even if they had to scale it back to a cash bar or something.

Hey Hey Hey No Baltimore
I live close by and don't want a bunch of porn mongers clogging up the inner harbor B)

Would like to see a Northeast summer show instead of Florida

New York maybe? Philly? [/b][/quote]
No No. Baltimore, Philly and Boston are all good. NYC and DC are too expensive for a show. Imagine a normal Manhattan hotel room upped to convention prices! Yow!

As said, Philly has great attractions and is near NYC and AC.

Baltimore, as has been said, also great bars, restaraunts and the harbor thing. Also near DC for anyone who wants to do that.

Boston, never been there, but I hear it has similarly good stuff, has a bit of Philly's history, their own harbor and good food and drink joints. Not near to a lot on the one hand, but for gamblers there are the Indian Casinos which I understand are pretty good. In fact I hear Foxwoods is outstanding.

I'd say any of them in the spring or autumn would be excellent venues.

As to shows having to make a profit. I agree. Of course they have to and should. And sorry Gonz buddy, but mainstream conventions can cost $1,500 and up. Take a look at the list on Mainstream Webmasters if you don't believe me.

Oh, while we're at it. The problem with the seminars is the price difference, not the price. Get more people to the seminars is simple. You don't double it for the seminars, you up the normal price higher and have the difference between the seminars and the hall less! Duh!!

And before people start throwing rocks or donuts at me for saying up the price. Remember, the price of the convention ticket is the same thing that gets you into the hospitality suites and 95% of the parties. At least that's the way I look at it.

I don't think it matters what is planned. It only matters who is there. Everyone gets out of it what they want. The Orlando show in 1997 was phenomenal and it was very short on events.

A good example of how lucky we are. A few years ago Ron of Cybererotica sponsored the go-cart races at the show. Ron was just hanging out talking to anyone who approached him. In what other business does one have the opportunity to walk up to the CEOs of the largest companies in the business and talk shop?

I would like to point out something small here .... play devil's advocate a moment ...

As far as location goes ...

You guys make it sound like any city here in the good ol U.S. of A. would be not only willing but GRACIOUS about throwing open its doors to a group of 3000-5000 pornographers. Unfortunately, even in the "land of the free" - this is sadly not even close to true.

I'm sure he was probably kidding, but Vicks post about "not near my home" pretty much sums up almost everyone's feelings on us. I'm certain one of the big reasons AVN keeps bouncing between florida and vegas is because those are 2 area's we are fairly welcome, without issue, that can handle a convention of our size.

Check this out. I live in Orlando. I was NOT in this industry (sad :( ) when the Orlando IA2000 happened. Too bad really, cause it will never ever happen here again. If the city of Orlando, or "The Big Rat" got wind of a PORN convention in the city, we would all be rode out on rails. Not to mention the fact that the booze train dries up about 2am here. Thats right - after 2am you can NOT get booze in the city. WTF are all the late night webmasters gonna do now??

The smaller conventions get away with different places, and give us variety, by being just that ..... smaller. If we can build a rapport with a hotel when we start small, we *might* have a chance at going back next year ... .maybe .... assuming furniture hasnt gone over balconies, carpets and tables havent been destryed by ciggarette butts, webmasters havent treated all the staff like assholes etc etc etc.

This shit really isnt as easy as it looks ....

Okay, im done ranting for now :) :rokk:

twinkley

I'm actually enjoying this thread.. I have always thought that the Vegas show and the Florida show should be swapped. That way we are all in Vegas mid-year when its not chilly. We are in Florida in the winter when its not hot.

OK - here goes

Aly - you know I love you but BS on the show badges being the only profit, the floor space rates are stupid expensive

Right from the convention center website http://www.lvcva.com/meetings/lvcc_info.html

- so AVN buys space at about 75 cents a SF and sells it for $25.00 - now add in the silly amounts and advertising people buy, everything from the badge lanyards to the toilet sanitizer cakes, it there is so much profit for AVN it is beyond silly, so sorry but that dog don't hunt

Stop booking the damn thing right after New Years - it is a pain in the ass - everyone and their brother has too much to do around the holidays as it is.

As much as I love Vegas, it is a stupid location for wanting to get any business done, EVERYONE is more interested in hitting the tables or the nightlife.

No one other than AVN has made any money from the Internext show (except for a few that have won givaways)

Try building an atmosphere more condusive to doing business, and less of people showing off their dick size, or pulling in a porn star to get a bunch of barely out of puberty TGP gallery builders to line up for pictures and the show MIGHT be worth the time.

KK,

Tell us more...who was it? (For those of little faith , it wasn't me! LOL)

:groucho:

The one thing I've learned from this thread above all , and it is a damn good thread , is how lucky AVN are to have Aly on their staff.

Florida space is at a Premium in january

They get is cheap in August at the lowest end of the season

Florida space is at a Premium in january

They get is cheap in August at the lowest end of the season [/b][/quote]

So much for my idea.. haha

For me, I have seen such a change in the last 5 years of the shows in Vegas (I will get on to the other shows in a minute). Huge booths with sponsored bars and food areas have been replaced by more circumspect booths and pay your way food and drink. I know that prices of booths have risen steeply, and would like Aly to post booth prices for the last 5 years, and we'll find the rate of inflation increase and see what the disparities are. I imagine it would be quite revealing. Added to that the number of new shows, whose popularity has also increased exponentially, and you have a reason to drop prices not increase them year on year.

We stay in hotels that are more expensive each and every year, prices for entertainment get more and more restrictive, and yet there are less and less sponsored parties. I wonder why, not!

I have hosted parties regularly in both Vegas and Florida for the last few years, and have had booths at previous Vegas shows, but it is becoming a question of catering to the top 5% of companies, and shutting out the remaining companies who simply cannot afford to do 5 shows a year, and sponsor everywhere. The costs are way too restrictive. This is why people are finding more value in smaller shows like the Phoenix Forum, which had way more ROI than any AVN show has in many years.

I would like to see more companies exhibiting, returning to days gone by, and this can only be achieved by allowing more webmasters/small companies attend (reducing badge costs (and maybe moving to a smaller, less expensive hotel, say MGM grand or equivalent)). Having more webmasters mean more reasons to exhibit, and reduced booth costs in essential to entice back more companies to exhibit.

Given that both attendance and exhibiting companies have dropped in recent years, isnt this an obvious supply & demand response?

I respect Aly, and recently was quoted as saying (in response to a question asking who i thought would make a good president of our industry) that she exudes the right balance of business savvy and experience, and obvious diplomacy skills (no doubt why she was hired by AVN) to win over sceptics back to AVN's shows.

I am sure she will read all our thoughts and do what she can, however I see AVN as such a juggernaut that I am one of those sceptics that is sitting on the fence.

Good luck Aly, I truly believe you'll need it. You'll have to work with the few good eggs within AVN (and there are quite a few) and build a collective capable of dynamic change.

:pearl:

And IMHO, the $200 is NOT out of whack with other shows HOWEVER, it's almost gotten to the point where a showroom floor doesn't even seem to be needed. As HP pointed out, there's not a big amount of "new stuff" that people haven't already heard about. How many deals do you make on the show floor? Mine are all done at the parties, dinners or after the shows.

And my own personal bitchfest :awinky: Florida in August and ANY SHOW right after the year's major holidays really screws up my mojo! <_<

I'm in total agreement with OldJeff.

We paid $5000 for a 10x10 last year, which conflicts with Lee's $3000. So is it that AVN is just sticking it to the new guys, or just non advertisers, or have they actually dropped booth prices this year only to increase attendee fees? I find the costs outrageous and their willingness to please potential exhibitors lax if not non existent. I felt, throughout the entire process, that I was being shafted in more ways than one by my "friendly show rep". Because of this and the terrible ROI of shows, we've not planned to attend any events in 2005. If we do, it will be the smaller, all biz venues. I'm just not willing to let AVN back into my pockets unless I'm to see REAL VALUE.

My suggestions for change, in addition to cost reduction, is similar to others, provide more value in seminars, areas to meet (free of charge, perhaps included with booth rental or ad space) that are rotated by appointment or blocks of time per sponsor/exhibitor, better dates and staff whose goal isn't to nickle and dime and/or bullshit me to my detriment.

My two cents:

Internext Florida. I agree with Gonzo. I don't see a need for the price to be so high.

Internext Las Vegas. I do believe the price should stay very high. I oversee several hooker discussion message boards. Many non-industry types make CES Week in Vegas a big trip. Many of these guys think that Internext is a sex show like Fan Day at AEE. AVN should discourage non-industry people from attending Vegas Internext.

But not at the cost of segregating newbies who are the ones that SHOULD be attending these shows.

But not at the cost of segregating newbies who are the ones that SHOULD be attending these shows. [/b][/quote]
I agree

I agree [/b][/quote]
wich quote do you agree with?

wich quote do you agree with? [/b][/quote]
about not segregating newbies

about not segregating newbies [/b][/quote]
yeah me too, then... I agree as well

Interesting, these comments about newbies.

First off, why do we need them?

Second, why should they be coddled and cuddled? This is a business. I don't seem to recall in 99 that anyone gave me free content, free hosting, pre-made galleries, reward points, instant payouts, payouts attached to a debit card, free trips or badges to Internext, or anything else along those lines.

Corvett mentioned the story of what Kimmy used to do before the internet, and while I'm not going into a long retelling of it, let's just suffice it to say that it was another method of alternative marketing, very much like door to door sales. In the beginning when the industry and the players were new, it was in everyone's best interest to "hire 'em in masses, teach 'em in classes, and kick 'em in the asses" while we were a growing and new sort of deal.

Once we got to the point that we were running ads for national distribution on the inside back covers of magazines like Elle and Vogue, we didn't need the bodies any more to make money. They became a liability, an oversaturation of the market that caused diminishing returns for everyone's ROI.

I have nothing against newbies personally, as a matter of fact, I'm actually working with 3 different ones who might actually make it for a year, I'm just sitting here trying to figure out when the Porn Unification Plan went back into action.

KK,

You have to be nice to the newbies.

This biz is about fucking the next guy.

You need newbies so you can be the fucker rather than the fucked!!!


;)))



I

Great thread.

Wish I had grabbed a better sig position in it.

I guess time will tell ;)

I clicked on your link and used 6 different credit cards and emails to sign up so you can get some $$$. All is good. B)

Drav....someone DID pay attention to your East Coast suggestion. This is not all as easy as it looks:-) Finding a hotel to work with is a major chore.

Forget Atlantic City - they have had so much trouble with the past Adult shows held there, that they send you to the Exibition Center (which is not what we do) Several places told me point blank that an Adult show IN the hotel is going to be very pricey. They don't want us....

I did place calls to some prospective hotels in Philly. Thier prices are just out of line and not affordable for the size show we have. For us - there is a lot of risk - Atrition could bankrupt us, if we don't fill their required rooms.

We really enjoyed New Orleans, and had a great show there in June 2000 - but there was a lot of problems with the timing of the AVN show also held in New Orleans that year - and many have a bad taste in their mouth about supporting another show there.

As far has having shows in areas during the ultimate weather conditions..... that is called peak season - it is unaffordable for the trade show company, many of the Adult companies & 70% of the webmasters. We have been fortunate to have pretty good weather conditions, but we use smaller properties.

It is not as easy as it looks. If it appears to be easy - then the company is doing a good job - because I am going on my 10th year - and I am yet to have an easy show. :P

Good Stuff...

I personally like the fact that attendee cost is what it is. Newbies that are serious about being successful will find a way, but it's enough to keep out the civilians that just want to look, yet have no interest in the biz...

Also, as far as location, I really liked having the show at the Venetian each year, because much less time was wasted trying to figure out where events and such are happening. It was great to be able to tell someone, yea "just meet me where we met last year" or whatever... It might not have been the best vacation seniro, but it was good for getting business done. Plus, it was large enough that anyone that wanted to stay could get a room...

Unlike the upcoming show where people are spread out over the strip... I already damn near need a spreadsheet to keep track of all the different hotels people are staying at that I would like to meet with...

Appreciate it, Sharpie!

And yes, I know it's a lot tougher than it looks to do these shows. The trouble they are to produce them is appreciated.

That said, still tired of sweating, and still think somewhere in the NE would draw a very large audience for any venue. Not only a lot of webmasters here, but higher per capita and it's only 50 miles between cities, not 500 miles as it is in some parts of the country. :)

Would not an easier way of keeping the civvies out be for registrants to provide a url upon signing up for a pass?

I have to agree with you there Dravyk - I skipped the Florida show this year, the first Internext/ia2000 that I'd missed since that Miami one with Netpond - and with the exception of not seeing old friends and touching base with people I only see 2-3x per year - I would say that I really didn't feel like I'd missed anything that was vitally important to business.

I really get much more done at the mid-sized regional shows and at smaller, local gatherings. Now I love Vegas - but that's because we get to drive/not fly and because it's Vegas! I agree with a lot of the posts here - the attraction is not really the actual "show" anymore, but all the things you can DO while networking in Vegas. Heck - we should just have a once-a-year party in Vegas and be done with it. Fly in for a 3-day weekender, have some scheduled parties but then turn everyone loose. I think it might have the same result.

Good thoughts/ideas in this thread - and I have to 2nd Sharpie's and everyone else's comments about not knowing how difficult it is to do one of these things until you've actually done it. Those who can make it look easy are really working their asses off behind the scenes to make it look that way.

Hi Aly,

My main concern is the power of business shifting from trade floor to off premise or soley networking at the parties and events... Many get the booths because they are AFRAID to take the risk of NOT exhibiting.

Some have decided to for go exhibiting and send a crew to network one one one to get the B2B, and B2C done.

I understand the costs of putting on a show, Sharpie has taught me well for over a decade....

But the price of an attendee ticket has to come down, or some form of payments can be made, and AVN can finance the admission some how...LOL and let webmasters make payments. Let them make payments, or let them set up something a year before the show and let them paypal in towards their ticket, gives them a year to pay in advance..instead of coming up with the money right afer the holidays or before the holidays.

This would also give AVN some operating capital :-)

Or.

Find a way to make a kick back on all parties thrown under your event and use this for profit so that floor tickets are more affordable. Rather you pinch the sponsors that the webmaster.

Foot traffic is key on that floor, and I think the price does not have the value it did when that business model went into effect in 1997.

Just my 2 cents plus prime :-)

Interesting comments Lee (Noga), about pinching the sponsors. It appears the posts prior to yours were comments made by sponsors about disliking the pinch. ;)

Like AVN, hate AVN, one thing you can say for AVN, their organizational skills are far better than most. Whether you like the Diplomat, hate the Venetian, whatever, things are more professionally put together than most others, from the hotel choices to the show floors. Personally I tend to hate show floors and can't stand having to stay in someone else's idea of a hotel LOL...

Hmmmm
I have to think if you can afford the $200 or whatever it is for the attendee fee ....

... you shouldn't be in business

Anyone in marketing knows the biggest way to waste a marketing person is to give them booth duty. Rule number one: They have to be free to hit the floor, leave the floor, find the people, do the business.

Booths are 20% branding and 80% for the newbies.

They're not even good for finding people to talk to, since, see rule one above, the people you need to talk to aren't ever at the booth!!

Vick, 500% agree with ya! :okthumb:

Excellent points Dravyk!

And you are definitely someone who lives by his own word.... I remember it was HELL trying to get you into the booth back in the day! lol

"Look, there's Dravyk!"
"Uh oh... where'd he go?"

:yowsa:

As much as I *hated* working the booth I really DID get to meet a lot of the newbies and get them onto the boards & into the chats/radio shows... so I guess booth-duty depends upon what your business is all about. If noobs are what you want, the booth is a good place to be. I know I *did* miss a lot by being chained to the booths though so I am much happier going booth-less this time around.

:awinky:

Booth duty is a waste of time, imo. If you are stuck in your booth and other people you need to talk to are stuck in their booths, how the hell do you ever talk about the things you need to? And it's pretty well impossible to have a private conversation in a booth, no matter how big it is.

The one time I went to the booth...

I swapped badges with Greenguy , he promptly fired everyone...


;-)))