"All exile chechyan politicians ..." [/b][/quote]
:blink:

thats like saying exhiled "afghani politicians"

Don't fuck with Russians. They don't play by our rules. They're already preparing to deny the war crimes charges that'll arise from raping and slaughtering a few towns as we post.

Besides, kerry's already whacked off a few vietcong. The only thing bush has whacked off is his coke habit and to his latest edition of tranny quarterly.

Somone who calls guys who made their living mowing down entire villages his "band of brothers" aint gonna worry about a few camel jockies getting caught in the crossfire.

Wanna fight terrrorism...put a killer in office.

Oh yea...in case you forgot about your new pal:
http://originaldo.com/john-ashcroft-time.jpg
just a friendly reminder from your new neocon to be supreme court.

Have a nice day

And here I thought Kerry only shot at un-armed villagers......



Kerry is a pussy.

Well, with the current situation in Chechnya, then I think most are in "exile", "underground", or "dead"... when Russia is done, then I wonder if there will be a place called Chechnya - maybe Stalin did the right thing in 1944? :unsure:

"Anyone that runs is a VC...anyone that stands still is a well disciplined VC"

:salute:

In this situation, it's so easy to forget about what causes situations like this. Some people reading what i have to say will instantly jump to the conclusion that i am being apologetic, but i'm not. There is no justification for what they have done. You cannot defend it. But saying all that; if the Russians hadn't been committing attrocities in Chechnya for all these years and had allowed them to form their own nation, then this shit would not be happening right now.

i hope you die a painful and horrible death while your family watches on TV too.

first... Chechnya did get its independence after the first war. Russia was one of the few to recognize it.

second, it STILL REMAINED one of the most lawless places on earth and continued to get worse... not better, still full of murderers, kidnappers, terrorists, warlords and was still a problem, still a safe haven for criminals and terrorists and still a threat to the neighboring republics and Russia... and finally they decided to start raiding neighboring Dagestan and other areas and the subsequent second war began.

fuck you and and your "all these terrorists need is a hug" bullshit. you know nothing about what you are talking about. i have lived in Russia for most of the last 7-8 years and have watched this shit play out almost since day 1. watched the watched both wars, watched the terrorism, watched the executions/torture of soldiers, watched the kindappings/beheadings of teachers, journalists and aid workers, watched Chechnya become a major hub for narcotics coming into Russia, terrorist safe haven and watched them continue to act like some of the most brutal and primitive people on the planet and continue their quest for "more".

i hope next time you are the one that gets kidnapped and held for ransom for $1,000,000.00 while you are trying to feed kids in Grozny and your family gets a nice video of you getting your head sawed off while you scream and beg... then we will all stand over your corpse and debate "cause and effect" relationships, morality and right and wrong.

Just what do you base this on Mike? What 'fighting' has your monkey boy hero EVER done? Did he thump someone for stealing his coke spoon? Have 'fight club' meetings in the basements of the S&Ls he was bankrupting? Beat the shit out of some trees who were fucking with his timber plans? Bitch slapped an owl up there in Alaska?

Face it Mike, of the two... Bush has by far shown the only time he wants to fight is when he's not going to get hurt and the deck is stacked his way... Maybe if you'd served you'd understand why Kerry is more of a man than Bush ever will be... No wonder you like Bush, you appear to be armchair worrior just like Dubya is...

That said, glad to hear you and others weathered Frances's visit ok!

:salute:

i hope you die a painful and horrible death while your family watches on TV too.

first... Chechnya did get its independence after the first war. Russia was one of the few to recognize it.

second, it STILL REMAINED one of the most lawless places on earth and continued to get worse... not better, still full of murderers, kidnappers, terrorists, warlords and was still a problem, still a safe haven for criminals and terrorists and still a threat to the neighboring republics and Russia... and finally they decided to start raiding neighboring Dagestan and other areas and the subsequent second war began.

fuck you and and your "all these terrorists need is a hug" bullshit. you know nothing about what you are talking about. i have lived in Russia for most of the last 7-8 years and have watched this shit play out almost since day 1. watched the watched both wars, watched the terrorism, watched the executions/torture of soldiers, watched the kindappings/beheadings of teachers, journalists and aid workers, watched Chechnya become a major hub for narcotics coming into Russia, terrorist safe haven and watched them continue to act like some of the most brutal and primitive people on the planet and continue their quest for "more".

i hope next time you are the one that gets kidnapped and held for ransom for $1,000,000.00 while you are trying to feed kids in Grozny and your family gets a nice video of you getting your head sawed off while you scream and beg... then we will all stand over your corpse and debate "cause and effect" relationships, morality and right and wrong. [/b][/quote]
Are you doubting that Russia has done some fucked up shit in Chechnya?

Admittedly, i don't know a whole lot about the situation. I had always been taught that when Chechnya declared independence, Russia invaded after they started expanding into the rural areas of Chechnya or something. By all means, correct me if i'm wrong.

And like i said, i think what the Rebels did is totally wrong and waaaaaaay out of line. You can't justify it. Even if it was possible, i wouldn't try to. But the point i am trying to make is that if you keep kicking a dog in the face, it's going to start biting people. Obviously, you're going to have to put the dog down, but shouldn't you also think about not kicking the dogs anymore?

Can you give me a link to a website with a concise history of the recent conflict (post USSR)? I just had a quick look around and most of what i'm finding is stuff written by some guy named Mohammed. Hardly objective.

i know russians are brutal. i know many people who faught in chechnya. chechens are many times more brutal than russians are. my point was simply that in pushing your extreme liberal ideology about the inherent good in everyone, you were a little short on facts and logic.

the fact is Russia gave them their independence and things spiraled rapidly downhill with warlords and criminal bosses at the helm and they wasted no time in becoming the biggest threat in the region. so to say "they are only bad because Russians made them that way by not giving them independence" to rationalize or explain the attempted murder 1200 people... mostly kids, is not only factually wrong, but a pretty fucking sick and twisted view of the world and how things are.

shoot me your name and address so i can buy you a ticket to go help all the chechen refugees. hopefully, you will last longer than the typical month or so that it takes to get kidnapped, ransomed and then murdered by these wonderful specimens of humanity on which you place no blame... and you might live long enough to make a difference in some kids life who will grow up to dream about watching you, the infidel, be slaughtered.

google - chechnya + ransom
google - chechen + ransom

I love how you put words into my mouth! I cannot stress enough how evil i think the people behind what went on are. I don't think there is an iota of good in these people. But i think if Chechnya had of been left to it's own devices, this wouldn't be happening. Granted, it would probably be even more of a shithole than it is now, but at least they wouldn't have a reason to be doing what they're doing (again, not saying it's justfieid, but it's the reason they're using).

Just what do you base this on Mike? What 'fighting' has your monkey boy hero EVER done? Did he thump someone for stealing his coke spoon? Have 'fight club' meetings in the basements of the S&Ls he was bankrupting? Beat the shit out of some trees who were fucking with his timber plans? Bitch slapped an owl up there in Alaska?

Face it Mike, of the two... Bush has by far shown the only time he wants to fight is when he's not going to get hurt and the deck is stacked his way... Maybe if you'd served you'd understand why Kerry is more of a man than Bush ever will be... No wonder you like Bush, you appear to be armchair worrior just like Dubya is...

That said, glad to hear you and others weathered Frances's visit ok!

:salute: [/b][/quote]


:lol: :lol:

Love to see the natives get worked up over a double digit lead.
Don't worry, I think a lot of the 11 point lead is fluff.... Kerry is probably
only 5 points back. Still plenty of time to flip flop a few more times.

As far as arm chair warrier, one does not have to fight in combat to know what
is right for his Country :)

:lol: :lol:

Love to see the natives get worked up over a double digit lead.
Don't worry, I think a lot of the 11 point lead is fluff.... Kerry is probably
only 5 points back. Still plenty of time to flip flop a few more times.

As far as arm chair warrier, one does not have to fight in combat to know what
is right for his Country :) [/b][/quote]


Oh and if Bush was merely a armchair warrier, then one would assume the people in the military, and veterans would overwhelming support Kerry.

Last I checked Bush had over 60% support from active military, and high 50% from Veterans.

you really seem to be missing the point. they did have their independence from Moscow. things rapidly went downhill Taliban style and they became a bigger threat to not only Russia but everyone around them and capped it off by invading their neighbors and capturing villages. so it can be said that "leaving them to their own devices" as you put it is what caused the situation today.

people like you are the reason terrorists kill.

"they only did it because..." and "if they would just be left alone, there would not be a problem"

i.e. "they can't be held responsible for their behavior because someone else caused it".

people like you cause innocent people to be killed. while you ingore the worst in people and hope for a better world... others are exploiting that hope and your denial for their own benefit and those people are murdering innocent people for their own purposes while you look in the opposite direction for answers.

It helps...

i.e. "they can't be held responsible for their behavior because someone else caused it". [/b][/quote]
You just can't help yourself, can you? There is no way in hell that i implied that. Of course they should be held responsible. I'm just saying, regardless of the fact that what the Russians have done is nowhere near enough and never will be enough to justify what these people have done, the Russians should still check themselves.

I mean, say i kick some guy's car and he takes revenge by killing my mother. Obviously, that is unjustified and ridiculously extreme. But had i not kicked the person's car, then he wouldn't have killed my mother. My plan? Don't kick the guy's car.

Didn't they only invade surrounding areas in 1999? (Dagestan?) Or were there previous invasions. I can't recall any. Again, correct me if i'm wrong (that probably sounds sarcastic, but it's not). What was the reason behind the Russian invasion of the region back in '94? I was under the impression that Yeltsin was not too happy about this indepdence deal and wanted to enforce moscow's authority on the region.

It helps... [/b][/quote]


I know a lot of good combat soldiers who I would not want as President of the US.

Buff was an excellent soldier - he even made it to special forces, and was shot in combat - he has a purple heart and other medals - BUT I would not want him as President.

Of course not, Buff was from what I understand an excellent soldier, but he is not Kerry and if Clinton caught hell for a little cumstain on a dress, can you imagine what the GOP would do to Buff?

I am saying that in this situation between these two men, Kerry has more insight as to what combat is than Bush... It is a character molding experience Bush will never have no matter how many flight decks he prances around. Would really like to hear your reasons and justifications for claiming Kerry is a 'pussy'...























Would you like to bet I can come up with more examples of Bush lying than you can for Kerry being a 'pussy'? Comeon Mike, don't be a Bush! ... lol...

:lol: :lol: :lol: