You vote for the lesser of two evils.

I'm not suggesting that we begin singing "Michel row the boat ashore", start GIA3.0 and hold hands...

i'm merely pointing out that we each (usa residents that is, when in reference to usa politics) have a voice that is counted. if you vote for an administration that is actively coming after you, vote for an administration that has no chance of winning (e.g. green party), or if you simply fail to vote at all then you are being silent.

i'm not voting the kerry ticket. i'm voting the ABB ticket. (anybody but bush).

Mike, my taxes have not changed since bush has been in office because I do not invest in the markets and do not buy hummers. As usual the bush tax cuts sound broad and imporant, but actually apply to a minority.

Why any adult provider ever voted for the party that supported the christian coahlition instead of the guy who was getting bj's under his desk will always baffle me. It seems kinda obviously self destructive.[/b][/quote]
if i had've known you would turn it into a political lecture & vote gathering exercise I wouldn't have asked ... LOL

I'd love to vote in the US election, but I have enough trouble remembering when our own elections are ;-)))

unfortunately, I think you are dreaming if you think that one party or the other is going to make a difference. There will always be some jesus freak politician, local or federal, who wants to make a name for himself & will use the anything controversial to do so ...

we are the controversy baby, and if you want to play in a controversial industry, get used to it! Be prepared to be dragged through mud and fight for your freedom at every turn - and still keep your head up doing it.

If anyone has a better suggestion ... i'm all ears!

Producing that and purchasing it was a risk we both took :D

I have wet dreams about COPA becoming law and P2P networks getting shut down due to copyright infringements

ah to dream ........[/b][/quote]
Vick....p2p is a nice delivery system. Ive made some easy cah a couple of years with oxcash using that alone!

Stayed out of this one as long as I could :D

SykkBoy ... don't you know the rules by now? Calling a right winger a Nazi is bad. Questioning the patriotisim of an American who does not think that the right is right is good.

To those of you who believe that the likes of Ashcroft will eliminate your competition - read the Niemoller quote. Read it again. Now, read it one more time. For those of you under the delusion that porn is mainstream and unassailable, take a gander at some of the silent films made in the late teens and early 20s of the last century, then read up on the Hays Committee and see what kind of crap was allowed in film for the next 30 years. Oh, yeah, and read the Niemoller quote again, then find me the one from Ashcroft that says right wing pornographers will be exempt from prosecution.

Ashcroft will be gone - hopefully next January. What scares me more than Ashcroft is the judges that Bush appoints. If Bill Clinton had attempted to appoint anyone as far left as Bush's recess appointments were to the right, Al Gore would have won simply by virtue of the number of Republicans, some of whom post on this board, who would've stroked out over their anger.

I'm not sure exactly how anyone can say with a straight face that "constant name-calling of modern-day Christians as "Nazis" and "Nazi scumbags"" is a common problem today. I have heard the term "nazi" applied to Ashcroft and his minions ... but these are the same sorts of people who believe that God allowed 9/11 to happen because of the rampant pornography and homosexuality in modern society. Quite frankly, there are a lot of the more extreme right wing elements of society - the McVeigh types - who describe themselves as Christians, and they fucking ARE Nazis.

Might be a bit of rhetorical overkill, but hardly inconsistant with the normal level of political discourse in this country, where it's not uncommon to have the patriotism of someone questioned because they don't support the agenda of the right. Certainly nothing to get your panties in a knot over ... but then, I'm a liberal left wing believer in an individual adult's right to date (or fuck) whoever they want in whatever way they want - regardless of gender, religion, race, color, creed, or political affiliation.

Carrie ... your confusion over the individual who made statements like should have been your first clue that you and he aren't speaking the same language. The guy in charge of hiring the people who will investigate what is pornographic would not dance with his wife at his own innaguration as Governor of Missouri because it was a sin. Now, even in your position as Chairperson of the Wiccan Defenders of Evangelical Christians, do you not see a potential problem here? These are people who quite frankly would label the Maidenform ad in Ladies Home Journal as pornographic. These are people who would like nothing better than to go back to racy television being an episode that puts Ricky and Luci in their seperate twin beds.

Yes, and that is scary, since a major part of the adult internet business today only passes thru a handful of companies... with a well coordinated raid they could really hurt porn on the internet - they might not get rid of it, but it would leave a "shock and awe" effect.

Vick, correct as usual.
Prohibitions create opportunities of Biblical proportions.

The Asshole leading the charge (Asscroft) has been quoted as saying "pornography has no place in a decent society" and ordered the covering of a marble breast.

The scalpal they use will be oddly shapped like a chainsaw.

Fundamentalist Christians are more dangerous to this country than Fundamentalist Muslims are, they both want to destroy our way of life and replace it with the rule of "God"

The only difference is the Christians are not using bombs (except for guys like Mc Veigh).

Christ we need to ban religion

Vick, correct as usual.
Prohibitions create opportunities of Biblical proportions.[/b][/quote]
*excited nodding*
:purpdance:

The article only mentions a few instances.

Hardly a epidemic.[/b][/quote]
But the war has just begun and there stated intention is to go after EVERYONE. What program doesn't have content that matches that which they tried to prosecute there?

Producing that and purchasing it was a risk we both took :D

I have wet dreams about COPA becoming law and P2P networks getting shut down due to copyright infringements

ah to dream ........[/b][/quote]
It always disturbs me when people put profit before freedom. There are always new ways to make money. Freedom, once taken away, is nearly impossible to get back and yielding it only encourages far more freedom to be taken away.

Who? Where?
The only thing I've heard about *are* the extreme cases, such as Extreme Associates.
Who are the undeserving folks that shouldn't have to go through this mess because the feds aren't sticking to the fringe stuff?[/b][/quote]
Mike cited it right in his article. Group sex, anal sex, and sex with objects were the type of porn they went after. They lost on getting a prosecution but still had to spend a shitload of money to defend themselves.

Carrie,

Most of bush's tax cuts have affected fewer than 100k people/homes. They sound nice, they sound like they benefit the middle class, but they have very little real world impact.

Carrie,

Most of bush's tax cuts have affected fewer than 100k people/homes. They sound nice, they sound like they benefit the middle class, but they have very little real world impact.[/b][/quote]
Hooper you are either ignorant, or your CPA is ripping you off.

The top federal INCOME tax braket was dropped by 4%. Remembering a psot awhile back stating you were a millionaire, that would leave me to beleive you make at least 1 million in income a year.

A 4% break over 1 million is..... 40k. So if you are not happy with this, instead of being a hypocrite why don't you send this amount to the Federal Gov't since you seem to think they know what to with your money better then you do!

You are a just a skinnier, more business savy Meni. Though I hear Meni is coming out with some spyware programs soon!

It always disturbs me when people put profit before freedom. There are always new ways to make money. Freedom, once taken away, is nearly impossible to get back and yielding it only encourages far more freedom to be taken away.[/b][/quote]
profits = Freedom $$$ = Freedom

The more $ I earn the more Freedom I have (to do as I please)


Also as I often state the moral pendulum swings back and forth, for every Ashcroft there is a ACLU to keep things in balance

If you think COPA being law wouldn't increase profits I disagree

TGP webmasters aren't the challenge as much as TGP sites are (and some of that crowd looks to care more about counter numbners than $)
Put yourself in the shoes of average Joe Pornsurfer, he see thousands upon thousands of free pics and think why should he pay for anything, he feels he is getting ripped off paying for anything when all this material is available free

So as an owner of paysites have to make sure Joe Pornsurfer knows all the extra things I offer .......

The best quality images and girls, all the images of a set in high quality, tons of full length videos, Erotic stories, arcade games, Live Video on and on ad nauseum......

and it's still a tough sell

Bring on Ashcroft and COPA!!

Mike, why do you have to sink to name calling all the time now? Are you lacking in any good response to the points mentioned?

Assclown will go for all porn. The site of the naked breast(s) on the "justice is blind" statue located in the room where he would give press confernces was enough to merit a cover. This man thinks all porn, even the softest "nudes" to be an offence to god, thus to him, and thus to all american people.

Mike, every one of your amateur sites where the girl is playing with a toy is more than enough for him.

You are a pornographer. The Bush administration is actively anti-porn. Not "porn is bad, m'kay" but "were are coming for you, your going to rot in hell or the worst jails we can find you perverts!". They have actively spent time and money to hire people and get ready to attack.

I think I know what their trigger is going to be... what their excuse will be. The Surpreme court will soon rule (once again) that COPA II isn't constitutional. Assclown will come out and say how horrible it is, and then start arresting people for all sorts of things, trying to get something to stick. They will certainly go after stuff that is more extreme, but I am also sure they will go for every major player / company in online porn looking for ways to screw everything up. As an interrelated and heavily cross dependant industry, removing the major paychecks for even a few weeks would pretty much put most people out of business. Imagine the top 5 or 10 programs with their bank accounts frozen and their offices closed "during investigation". Every one of their servers seized and shut off... imagine companies like CCBill and Ibill seized for aiding and abetting the illegal distribution of porn? I don't say the charges would stick, but you can see how easy it is for one man with a bad temper and no tolerance to screw things up.

cj: The interesting thing about sponsor galleries is that the sponsors end up directly responsible for the distribution of free porn. They then start to expose themselves to much higher legal risks in assclown land.

Alex

Alex - if you scenario is correct does it make more sense for Ashcroft to try to get arrests and prosecute little guys instead of large companies?

Smaller operations that don't have the resources to wager a legal fight?

Get a few successful convictions before going after the big guys, setting a president

VOTE BUSH IN '04
KEEP ASHCROFT
INCREASE PROFITS!!!

Alex, I understand that ALL politicans are anti-porn, at least publicly and they will scape goat us if it benefits them.

My only point is the vast crackdown predicted by many from Ashcroft has never appeared.

As far as names, they either fit with Hoop or he is telling a fib, because the tax breaks Bush passed were for INCOME. I am almost finished my taxs, and I have seen what the cuts did for my tax bill. I am sure Hooper makes more then I do, so he saved even more.

Vick: Assclown don't want sucessful prosecutions, those aren't needed. All they want to do is send a chill. What better chill than to stop the flow of cash? Even 15 days would be enough to throw this industry into a tailspin. Even with the best of lawyers, it could take months to undo seizure notices on servers, content, etc. Imagine being required to provide 2257 documentation for every single image on every single server. Even with a while team and excellent records, you would still be looking at weeks of work.

More importantly, imagine that the processing companies get dragged into it, RICO charges, whatever. Suddenly they get raided, shut down, all servers seized... even if the charges don't stick, the onlien porn industry would be damaged for many years to come.

Mike: Assclown has hired the man. He has made an attempt on COPA. This is all timed to be a major offensive leading up to the election. We should start a pool on the day it will start. It will come, this year, before the elections. Maybe right after Miami show? The feds could drop in there, act like porn people, collect business cards, names, and such. People brag all sorts shit at parties.

As for taxes, well, I am Canadian, so I can't comment.

Alex

FREE BUSH

vote Democrat 04'

Alex - If that's what it takes ......

The industry is in pain already, there is going to be more pain one way or another

I'd rather have it quick then this dragged out attrition we've seen over the past few years

That being said, on a personal level I don't want to see anyone lose their livelihood

but on a business level ...... Bring it and quick!

Nothing personal, just business


VOTE BUSH IN '04
KEEP ASHCROFT
INCREASE PROFITS!!!

I think quite a few people are missing the point of the article.

Obscenity prossecutions have nothing to do with free, pay, accessible by minors, or any of the "good things" that have been pointed out.

Every obscenity prossecution that has ever happened in the US has been for distributing to paying adults.

They will haul whoever they feel like into court in "Tight Ass Utah" (a fictional town in the middle of God land) and throw your ass in jail for a couple lifetimes.

The ONLY reason they have not happened is 9/11, and getting the WMD's in Iraq.

Yes they will start with the most extreme stuff to build a caseload, but John Asshat will noty stop untill

A. - He is out of office (which I pray for every day)
B. - Adult material can not be purchased in the US

And yes I still pray for this clown's death

your nuts.

you guys are kidding yourselves if you think politicians are going to go berzerk this way. wont happen.

look at how much problem the government has had in trying to legislate something to fight child porn. we do have a legal system that works quite well you know?

and what is the connection to John Ashcroft and Iraq? there isn't one. Iraq is not stopping Ashcroft from prosecuting anyone.

I'll respectfully disagree with you on that point


If Obscenity prosecutions started for on line porn watch everyone put hard material behind age checks of some sort, even if the obscenity prosecution was about something that was paid for material

Don't you think praying for Ashcroft's death is a bit ironic? :yowsa: maybe even a delicious irony


Yes I know it's a fantasy but I still root for COPA to become law


VOTE BUSH IN '04
KEEP ASHCROFT
INCREASE PROFITS!!!
Nothing personal, just business

The Feds normal mode of operation is to go after and disrupt the lines of distribution. Midsize is uaually a good target. They usually don't have the big bucks to fight it & so they MAKE DEALS..... The Feds don't even have to really make their case. Just intimidate enough to make their point. They love to use medium size players that they think have information, that will help them up the line. Their biggest tool is INTIMIDATION.... and people fall for it.

This industry still needs a lot of cleaning up, that is a given. But, will they stop there? That is the big question. They haven't eradicated 'kitty porn yet - so why are they diluting their efforts to go after legal porn? I think they shoud finish the job they set out to do there, before moving on.

As far as spam - it seems that the porn companies honor the 'do not send a lot more than the people peddling meds.......The mainstream companies spam in my mailbox is about 10 to 1. They constantly misspell to get by the filters. Why in the world would companies continue to spam people who are not the least bit interested in their products? NO - I don't want to enlarge my penis.... :-)

Once you start talking about "vanilla porn" we are SO far down the totem pole as far as big targets.

ATT, GE, HBO, etc. all do millions more in traffic than we can dream of. Will Ashcroft go after them? Doubtful. Worrying about actual prosecution at the federal level for anything "vanilla" is premature, IMHO.

I havent done my taxes yet this year Mike, we generally file an extension and file in October, so I havent seen the tax break yet. You may very well be right. I wasnt saying that there were no "for the rich" tax breaks, I was pointing out that most of his "for the poor & middle" breaks affected so few people that they were virtually pointless.

In any case, the meni comment wasnt necessary, i'll be over at weasel's board if you need me.

Before I go I will also point out that while we are busy softening up all our tours (see http://www.annsxxx.com ) and eliminating the highest risk sites (we killed our weird no hand guy site a few weeks ago) during an audit by our first ammendment attorneys they noted that whats in your members area can get you an obscenity prosecution just as well as your tours can.

Basically the difference is that if it's on the tour you are full well providing the content to people who have not yet even made an attempt to verify their age... which is copa grounds + obscenity grounds.

Your post on taxs was as ignorant as Meni's posts.... you were called on it. You should be pepaired to defend your posts, especially when they are filled with wrong information.

My posts on Oprano are made as me personally, not as an owner of Oprano. I could have easily flamed you on a dozen other boards, would you leave them as well? If you want to head to a board where everyone pats you on the back, and says "you the man" on every post, enjoy.

First and formost Oprano is a no-spin zone.... if you cannot handle it, well you know the rest.

:D

Knowing where you content is from, and making sure that all the paperwork is in order is a EXTREMELY good point.

There are a lot of people out there cranking out content who do not have proper paperwork on. Many times it is just sloppyness, other times its intentional.

This is a problem not only in dealing with criminal issues with the feds, but also potential civil suits as well.

profits = Freedom $$$ = Freedom

The more $ I earn the more Freedom I have (to do as I please)


Also as I often state the moral pendulum swings back and forth, for every Ashcroft there is a ACLU to keep things in balance

If you think COPA being law wouldn't increase profits I disagree

TGP webmasters aren't the challenge as much as TGP sites are (and some of that crowd looks to care more about counter numbners than $)
Put yourself in the shoes of average Joe Pornsurfer, he see thousands upon thousands of free pics and think why should he pay for anything, he feels he is getting ripped off paying for anything when all this material is available free

So as an owner of paysites have to make sure Joe Pornsurfer knows all the extra things I offer .......

The best quality images and girls, all the images of a set in high quality, tons of full length videos, Erotic stories, arcade games, Live Video on and on ad nauseum......

and it's still a tough sell

Bring on Ashcroft and COPA!![/b][/quote]
I never said a thing about COPA not increasing profits. I said freedom is more important to me than profits because there is ALWAYS another way to make profits.

My personal hope is that someone like Blacks on Blondes gets hit with the first 'vanilla' porn prosecution.

Would be nice to see the ACLU or NAACP jump in and fight with us.

and I say PROFITS ARE FREEDOM!!!!

Strike a blow for Freedom

EARN MORE $$$$

interesting blog read the first item and then the reponses : )

Interesting reading Dan. Not only on porn but Iraq as well.

Interesting reading Dan. Not only on porn but Iraq as well.[/b][/quote]
yes it is, I read and keep up with several blogs from people who have had or has boots on the ground. Those are the ones that know what's going on there. Everyone else just states thier thougths without much info to back it up except whatever "news" channell they subscribe to : ))

1- I'm wondering about the economics of a crackdown.

The russians are pumping more and more stuff, of more and more quality than the local outfits seems able to keep pace with.

Then, it'll be south east asia.

So what does Ashcroft thinks he'll be saving victimized viewers from ?

The ONLY way to control porn is to control what's circulating on the net, a big filtering proxy server for the whole nation.

They do it in China.

A study done on the topic of censorship in China, conducted mainly by phoning local modems ISP's in China and surfing for various stuff showed that 90% of the porn was available but that they blocked most news sites, Google, other search engines, sites about science, medicine, politics, etc.

What did you Ben Franklin said ? That those willing to trade liberty for safety will get (or deserve?) none in the end ?




Last edited by Feynman at Apr 8 2004, 08:50 PM