I hope you are wrong about the scheduling of the implosion episode.

I was hoping for one good debate between Meni and Torone first.

Hey Dark...
When I was in elementary school, my Principal had two wooden paddles - one with holes, and one without.
If you were being a true brat and deserved to get your ass spanked, you did. Your only hope was that you could convince him to NOT use the one with the holes - it hurt a lot more.

He absolutely hated to use it though, and would sit talking with us for a really long time before he finally sighed and said "well, it's time... bend over the desk..." and deliver that much-needed discipline.
All it took was one visit to his office to instill total respect for him - with or without a spanking. Of all the teachers and adults in that school, the one person we really didn't want to disappoint was Principal Carey. (Yes, that was his name.) And notice I say disappoint, not piss off. He was like a second Dad to us and it really made you feel like shit when you did something bad enough to disappoint his expectations of you.

Nowadays they can't even tell kids to pull their pants up so their ass isn't showing without being accused of racial profiling or culture oppression. Ugh.

Meni, let's imagine something.
Imagine that there is a man that gathers your family together and forces them to watch as your father is lowered feet-first into a meat grinder.
Imagine that he takes your mother and your sister and locks them away from everyone - even each other - and rapes them repeatedly. He also offers them up as "prizes" for his sons and as payoffs for his buddies, and they are raped by these men as well.
Imagine this man decided that he needed to test out a new gas bomb his scientists had just developed, and he chooses your hometown that you grew up in, with all of your childhood friends and high school sweethearts who are still living there with their kids - as his testing area to see what happens.
Imagine that this man is telling the world he has no weapons at all, but everyday your children come home scared to death, talking about all of the men who came into their school and brought "space suits" and gas masks along. Not to mention the very large guns that each of these men was carrying in the school hallways in front of your small children.

How much money would it be worth, to you, to find this man?
At what point would you say "No no, it's just not worth it anymore, it's costing too much money. Leave him alone and let him keep doing these things to other people."
A few thousand? A hundred thousand? A million? 80 million?

Hussein and his sons did these things to families every day for decades, Meni.
How much money is "worth it" to end decades of fear, torture, terrorism, and gassing?
And how much money is "worth it" to rebuild anything we knock down in an effort to find this man, to rebuild basic necessities like water lines and electricity lines that this man had disabled in order to keep his people weak and frightened? To stay there and work with the people so that they could come out of hiding and take control over their own lives, government, and future again after living so long under this man's control?

How much money is that worth, Meni?

Quit bitching about Stern's latest bullshit numbers on Bush, quit blaming everything on people who happen to have faith (whether they're right-wing, left-wing, or none of the above), and instead go down to your local City Hall and throw your hat into the ring as Mayor or for a position in your State's local congress.
You want more jobs for people? Then YOU work to bring those jobs to your area. While you're at it, convince the people who are on welfare and are perfectly healthy that yes, they really CAN get up and get a job at McDonald's, that it isn't more of a smack to their precious pride than sitting and watching Jerry Springer and Ricki Lake all day long.
You want better education? Then YOU work to get more money out of the hands of superintendents and filtered instead down into the classroom so that the kids can have the things they need. YOU work to set standards in your community that teachers have to pass tests in order to teach. YOU help get rid of bullshit "quotas" that force teachers to pass failing students.

YOU do something to fix it, rather than sitting on your pretty little high-pro-glow ass bitching about how one man in government isn't fixing all of this FOR you.
That is, if your tanning sessions, gym appointments, and watching Jenna's dogs doesn't tax your schedule too much already.

Oh, gee ... I just used up three boxes of Kleenex.

You want to go for the emotional factor, Carrie? You want to ask my girlfriend how many goddamned Iraqis her son is worth?

Did those things happen? Probably - although I suspect when the truth is told much of the "information" we have about Saddam's regime will turn out to be in the same league as the Germans killing babies in Belgium in 1914, or the Iraqis ripping babies out of incubators in Kuwait in 1991.

Quite a sea-change in American politics, however, if the neoconservatives have decided that Jimmy Carter was right all along, and that the human rights of people overseas are not just worth considering, but are worth expending American lives for. In a manuer executed more skillfullly than an about-face by a crack military drill team, we're now notnationbuilding in Iraq to defend the downtrodden (and oil rich). Granted, all this sob story stuff is pretty fucking convenient, since the WMD/connections to alQaida rationale for the war didn't materialze. What I'm still struggling to figure out is how the very same people on the right who have their heartstrings plucked by the poor suffering Iraqis could have ignored it for fucking decades before it became a problem.

Just out of curiousity, how many nations in the Coalition of the Rented and Duped have human rights records that can rival Saddam's? Will we be taking them on any time soon? And what about our good buddies, Pakistan? The Pakistanis CREATED the Taliban, and those forces are STILL involved in the intelligence and military of Pakistan. The Pakistani military is full of unrepentant Islamic fundamentalists, and Mussarif's hold on power is tenuous at best. I cannot believe how many people were fooled by that dog-and-pony show last week with the "high ranking Taliban leader" bullshit - coincidentally taking place when Colin Powell dropped into town. The government we are trusting in Pakistan is the same government that just forgave those who passed nuclear secrets to any nation that had the $, and is less stable than the Shah of Iran was in the late 1970s.

That same Iraqi who used to fear his government now can't leave his house. That same Iraqi who used to worry about the men in space suits scaring his children is now worried that some terrorist scum will blow them up. It could be alQaida, could be unrepentant Bathist, or it will (if not already) soon likely be garden variety Iraqi extremists - Sunni, Shitte, or Kurd. In less than 3 months we're "turning over power" to ... well, we'll figure that out as we go along.

With all due respect, Carrie, that whole "protect the underdog" line of bullshit rings very hollow from the American right - who not so very long ago were howling at Clinton for intervening in Bosnia, although that conflict involved very real and unquestionable imitation of Nazi atrocities, and the threat of intervention from a multitude of nations offered the protential of war between a number of our allies. Of course, the Bosnians, Serbs, Croats, and Albanians don't have any oil, and - call me a cynic - the fact that the President of the United States who wanted to do this was from the other party just might have had something to do with it.

I'm sorry, but when neoconservatives start playing out the sob stories about horrible human rights abuses of oppressed peoples, my bullshit detector goes off. Those people either have something we want, there is an agenda hidden someplace - or all the other lies they wrap their policies up in have been exposed, and it's the last line of defense.

I've been wondering this for a little while now

Hows is that possible ?
5 mil more people employed but unemployment rate was about 1% lower in 99

Was there a huge population shift in the last 5 years ?[/b][/quote]
Unemployment is calculated by unemployed divided by labor force. The
unemployed increased faster than the new people coming into the workforce.

Being neither a Democrat nor a Republican, I don't care whether you hate Bush or love him.

Turn on the TV? Yeah, great source.

3 million more unemployed today than 4 years ago.
5 million more employed today than 4 years ago.

Those are the straight numbers. What conclusion do you draw?

Unemployment rate: 5.6%. Below average.
Employment/total population rate : Excellent. Not as high as during Clinton era
GDP. Great 2 quarters.
Deficit. Very high.

My conclusion? We're in an above average economy paid for by deficit spending. The economy is not as good as it was during Clinton's second term but overall better than most.

ahahaahahahahahaha!

So true!

Not sure this sentence should be uttered to a 15 or 16 year old , just puts too many visions into my head, maybe I have been doing this porn thing too long :blink:

Unemployment is always blamed on the president at the time, even though the effect of most legislation take years to become evident.

Education system has been a shit pile for at least 20 years, probably more, I have heard every president I can remember get blamed for the failing education system, (my guess is the education problems have nothing to do with the president)

I am more than OK with bashing Bush, but at least do so for things he is actually responsible for

John Ashcroft - Lying about the reasons for the War in Iraq - Shit just being from Texas (anyone that thinks I am being unfair needs to remember the shit Carter took for being a backwoods Georgia hick)

I guess Homophobic Christian Fundamentalist Redneck is a good trait for the leader of the free world



:unsure:

Come on, Meni ... get with the program.

If it's a good thing, Bush is responsible.

If it's a bad thing, Bush is not responsible - it was probably Clinton, and besides, Bush is focused.

That's only if the bad thing is really bad. See, what's bad under Bush and the Republicans might have been good under Clinton (stalling the appointment of judges, for example). What's good under Bush and the Republicans was probably bad under Clinton (nation building, deficit spending).

If you cut and paste things that do not support the President - remember, he may be wrong, but he's focused - you lack the ability to think critically. If you post every possible reason for the war in Iraq except saving Iraq from gay marriage, you are have a brilliant understanding of real politik, and may even, in fact, be focused yourself.

The Cliff notes version -

Rule Number 1: Bush Good, Democrats Bad.
Rule Number 2: If it appears that Bush is bad, and it is not possible to blame Clinton and liberalactivistjudges, see rule number 1 - and remember, he's focused.[/b][/quote]
OK, I don't like Bush
at all.....................
I did, had my pudgy little fingers crossed that he would win the election. I surely did. I STILL wouldn't want Gore in the white house........
BUT
I stopped liking Bush when I noticed a couple of things
1)He believes the country should be run by the pulpit (my own interpretation, feel free to disagree)
2)He flat out LIED about WMD in Iraq.

We could have been spending money and manpower trying to catch the REAL criminal, OBL, the one who actually killed thousands of Americans on US soil. But we diverted funds and soldiers away from that search in order to invade......err....liberate Iraq.
WHY!?
I have no answer to that question but I am sure of one thing, if they haven't found anything yet, they won't, and that I have more lethal gas after a good mexican dinner then Saddam did just before the invas.......err.....liberatrion began.
Bush has cause damage to the US in a lot of foreign (friends) eyes then any President in recent history.

sorry, that's just how i see it and I know I am woefully uninformed about the body politic, but the fact remains my views are more in the mainstream as long as you remove rebid Christian Fundamentalists from the equation.


spaz

right on :rokk:

You are 2 nice

I remember the paddles ALL too well, had a couple of them used on me once or twice :) But as you said, you can't even tell kids to pull up their pants anymore. There's a severe lack of discipline in schools and the kids are just spoiled fucking rotten. Had they not removed corporal punishment from the schools and the parents, you'd see kids today that aren't brain-dead shitbags doing as they please with no moral compass. It used to be that kids as they act today were a rare occurance 20 years ago, and kids that actually gave a rats ass about something other than themselves are now the exception to the rule.

A sad fucking time we live in...

I remember the paddles ALL too well, had a couple of them used on me once or twice :) But as you said, you can't even tell kids to pull up their pants anymore. There's a severe lack of discipline in schools and the kids are just spoiled fucking rotten. Had they not removed corporal punishment from the schools and the parents, you'd see kids today that aren't brain-dead shitbags doing as they please with no moral compass. It used to be that kids as they act today were a rare occurance 20 years ago, and kids that actually gave a rats ass about something other than themselves are now the exception to the rule.

A sad fucking time we live in...[/b][/quote]
Mr Young (Old Man Young, weren't we the clever bunch) was the same as dark said in his post, and your both correct about how some schools are today.
We recently moved from a very small town in oHIo to a relative large city (by our standards) here in Florida. My 14 year old boy is amazed at how kids at his new school act and my 8 year old tells me about the 'bad kids' who get away with doing almost whatever they want, yet if a 'good kid' responds to their harassment they get in 'big trouble'. He is afraid to say anything to the teachers, or do anything to the kids because he doesn't want to get in 'serious trouble'
Now thats a fucked up situation right there


spaz

Yeppers Spaz, it is.
Is that the only school in your area that you can send him to? It would probably be worth it to see if there are any others (even private).

I just hope they don't start acting the same way. I know *my* 6yr old is quite an impressionable little fellow and "soaks up" the people he's around, I'm guessing that 8yr olds are more immune to it but probably over time they'd wear him down. :(

(Of course you could always check out homeschooling, hehe.)

Meni you're an idiot

who ever cared to count the people that have money or live off someone but dont care to work or need or want unemployment benefits ??

And Meni for someone that was born and live in the GOOD OL USA for 35 years you should remember well when anything under 6% unemployment was considered FULL FUCKIN emlpoyment.[/b][/quote]
Slav, don't lump people who aren't collecting into a group like that
each person is different

i'm an idiot, cool
atleast i'm not you

You are 2 nice[/b][/quote]
thanks jimmyf
which jimmy are you
I get confused
are you the one who begged me to hook you up at clubjenna?

Ignorant fuck?
get off Bush?
I'm suppose to have the answers?
I'm not the fuckin president

Bush - Religious Right, has to fucking go
that simple
wanna argue jesus lover Bush isn't trying to take away our freedoms?



Last edited by Meni at Mar 24 2004, 12:54 AM

Ignorant fuck?
get off Bush?
I'm suppose to have the answers?
I'm not the fuckin president

Bush - Religious Right, has to fucking go
that simple
wanna argue jesus lover Bush isn't trying to take away our freedoms?[/b][/quote]
I'd at least hope you had a half-assed answer instead of your tired Bush Must Go rhetoric. Alas, I was asking too much. Your blind hatred of the man has robbed you of any intellect capable of making a rational post on this subject.

Carrie, I have to pay to save Iraq?
really?
I'm sure there are other dictators doing crazy ass shit
We going after them too?
no we went after GW's daddy's old enemy

You are telling me there are no other evil doers in this world?

Cheney going duck hunting with Scalia
then Scalia ruling on his case?
this administration needs to GO

Clear Channel dumps stern, zero tolerance? oh really, so far there are atleast 3 Clear Channel DJ's being fined, and they are KEEPING their JOBS

Ryan Seacrest says fuck 2 times on the air?
is he fired?
fined?

Oprah talks about penis' and tossing someone's salad
did Oprah get fined?

We go into Iraq looking for WMD's
oh oops, bad intelligence, there are not any
lets rebuild Iraq, and make sure our (bush/cheney's) friends get the contracts
And once we leave Iraq, civil war.
Are we safer?
word is al quaida has a dirty bomb
oh boy, good job since 9/11 getting those guys!!!
We were worried about Saddam and his kids
were is the real threat?

OH i Missed the watching Jenna's dogs
is that a slam?
gym a slam?
tanning a slam?
Call the clubjenna office wise ass, ask what I do

The problem with this area is this, when we moved here (in the middle of the school year no less) they didn't have any openings in the schools even remotely near us. They placed our sons where they had openings
youngest one got a rated 'A' school, and the oldest got a rated 'C' school. Doesn't speak highly for their grading system I can tell ya that! LOL
I haven't seen any private schools in this area except for religious ones and to be honest, I would consider them an option only if my boys were being bused into the intercity or something LOL I don't want my boys coming home with bible bruises.
Home schooling..........
I want them educated, not dead! :yowsa:

spaz