I find Bush much LESS scarier than Bin Laden and Co...

"It was Barzini all along. Lensman is a pimp, he would have never outsmarted Santino!"

;-)))))) :gbounce:

That is what is alleged by the government - the same government that assured us that Saddam was ready to deploy WMD on 45 minute's notice.

Some of us take seriously thoughts like opposition to "For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences"

And KC - you really shouldn't be suprised at the reaction here. It has nothing to do with Lensman or GFY, guns, Lensman or GFY, democrats, Lensman or GFY, GFY or Lensman ... and did I mention Lensman?[/b][/quote]
The 60's are over.
J. Edger Hoover is not coming to get you.

P.D. maybe the "reaction" is also due to the painful reality that there is no blanket rule that can EQUALLY gaurantee the safety, security and rights of all people, innocent or not. People have made a choice to make some hypothetical sacrifices to help make sure that a nuclear bomb is not detonated in Manhatten and 1,000,000 people get vaporized because we had to play fair with murderers in a system that favors, shields and protects them.

That does not sound unreasonable to me at all.

It will be interesting to see how the Patriot Act plays out. I have a hunch the lawmakers got a little too greedy in some places.

http://www.epic.org/privacy/terrorism/usapatriot/

I've been reading a bit about the oath's of office various officials are required to take.

http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/histor...Oath_Office.htm

Serge, I was also a little surprised that you said "I don't give a fuck about amendments" ;)

I think YOU also took this oath when you became a US Citizen!!

Spoken like a good German, JR

what kind of fascist remark is that?

Serge, I was also a little surprised that you said "I don't give a fuck about amendments"

I think YOU also took this oath when you became a US Citizen!!
************************************************** *****

as I said before:

Bonasera: "I believe in America. America has made my fortune."

and if my AMERICAN Government decides to detain the fucker for 18 months or for all etrnity-
I'll support my Government...

is there anything wrong with that?

If the American Government becomes a Domestic enemy of the Constitution there's something wrong with it. ;)

--
(3) to support and defend the Constitution and the laws of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic;
--

I never took an oath when I became a Citizen, but you did. ;))

what kind of fascist remark is that?[/b][/quote]
Not a facist remark at all - I would have used sheep instead, but [some twit] has used the word far too often lately.

With regard to your comment about the 60s being over. There are more than a few people who only regret that the illegal violations of civil rights of hundreds of thousands of Americans were made public and that they were discontinued. There are people ON THIS BOARD - who reflect the feeling of at least some within the administration - that a large portion of the American people who disagree with their political philosophy are in fact traitors to their country.

I wouldn't trust Teddy Kennedy and Hillary Clinton with the powers we've given Bush and Ashcroft. Unlike many of the partisans around here, I wouldn't feel any different about it if they were the ones who held those powers.



Last edited by PornoDoggy at Nov 30 2003, 09:55 PM

If the American Government becomes a Domestic enemy of the Constitution there's something wrong with it. ;)

--
(3) to support and defend the Constitution and the laws of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic;
--

I never took an oath when I became a Citizen, but you did. ;))[/b][/quote]
and who do you think he is talking about? Just Kay?
;-))

Kay Adams: "Do you know how naive you sound, Michael? Presidents and senators don't have men killed!"
Michael Corleone: "Oh. Who's being naive, Kay?"

no argument from me!
;-)))

and who do you think he is talking about? Just Kay?
;-))

Kay Adams: "Do you know how naive you sound, Michael? Presidents and senators don't have men killed!"
Michael Corleone: "Oh. Who's being naive, Kay?"[/b][/quote]
Hahaha..

I love the Godfather references. ;)

I don't care if this guy murdered 30 people with his two bare hands - he has a right to a lawyer and a right to go to trial to be tried.

Then again I also think that sticking a naked convicted murderer or rapist in a room with the victim's family and friends should not be considered "cruel and unusual punishment", so my opinion may not mean much.

I have a feeling that if someone deemed that your websites were a means of transmitting secret terrorist messages and threw you in a cell for more than 24 hours, you'd be screaming about your rights rather than semantics and the Patriot Act.

no argument from me!
;-)))[/b][/quote]
Well, how are you going to feel when they (or someone like them) inheret these powers - either next year, or in 4 or 8 years?

(I mean, after you finish grieving over the loss of your partner MikeAI, who will have a stroke when one of them is elected).

Uhhh ...

wow.

Are we allowed to agree on something? :)

and talking about pledges..

Luca Brasi: "Don Corleone, I am honored and grateful that you have invited me to your daughter... 's wedding... on the day of your daughter's wedding. And I hope their first child will be a masculine child. I pledge me ever-ending allegiance to your daughter's bridal purse."

Carrie, neither MikeAI nor me care about that...

1) MikeAI misspells so bad, no terrorist would ever understand him

2) My English/spelling is even worse than his!


Oprano is SAFE, you all worried for NOTHING
;-)))

Serge your typos could be taken for secret code :awinky:

PD - Of course! Non-complex friendships would be boring :P

not after I gave the military intelligence which intervied me before my pledge and becoming the citizen,
everything I knew about Krasnoyarsk II which you won't find on ANY maps,
which doesn't prevent them from manufacturing nuclear weapons there.

hey, KC, what else have YOU done for this country, besides writing the letter to your elected official?

I feel safer with him in prison..

ask me again in another 18 months..

hey, KC, what else have YOU done for this country, besides writing the letter to your elected official?[/b][/quote]
I pay taxes.

I vote.

I love this country.

I respect the Constitution.

I do my part. I even post in public forums to discuss things I take issue with. ;)

I pay taxes.

I vote.

I love this country.

I respect the Constitution.

I do my part. I even post in public forums to discuss things I take issue with. ;)[/b][/quote]
ok, nothing, IOW
;-)))

PD, it never ceases to amaze me that you in the American Left cry out about how all our rights are being trampled, and then in the next breath demand government snatch 100% of the income of anyone making more than $10/hr. It's the most blantant hypocrisy human beings have ever been guilty of.

Tell me how you can have your freedom if you don't even own that which you are paid for your labor?



Last edited by Buff at Nov 30 2003, 09:34 PM

ok, nothing, IOW
;-)))[/b][/quote]
Call it what you want. I do my part to defend the Constitution.

I'm waiting to do my public service when I run for President! ;)

Thats all fine. You have an opinion. I have an opinion. Everyone has an opinion. They are different opinions. You are acting as if there is a right opinion. There isn't on this issue as far as i believe. There are only degrees of concern. Your concerns are different than mine or at the very least, you have placed some concerns over others.

Why does it have to be any more complicated or deep than that? Why would you not respect the opinions of others that are fine with The Patriot Act? If they agree with you, presumably they are not "sheep" or Nazis... but rather on the "right side of the issue". That does not sound like a free world to me.



Last edited by JR at Nov 30 2003, 07:36 PM

Call it what you want. I do my part to defend the Constitution.

I'm waiting to do my public service when I run for President! ;)[/b][/quote]
don't militia who blew Oklahoma building also claims to defend the Constitution?

you have some bedfellows
;-)))

Thats all fine. You have an opinion. I have an opinion. Everyone has an opinion. They are different opinions. You are acting as if there is a right opinion. There isn't on this issue as far as i believe. There are only degrees of concern. Your concerns are different than mine or at the very least, you have placed some concerns over others.

Why does it have to be any more complicated or deep than that? Why would you not respect the opinions of others that are fine with The Patriot Act? If they agree with you, presumably they are not "sheep" or Nazis... but rather on the "right side of the issue". That does not sound like a free world to me.[/b][/quote]
How is insinuating that I am still living in the 60s &/or paranoid about a return to the days of J. Edgar Hoover any different from what was intended as a sarcastic remark?

You insinuated that I am living in the past before I insinuated you were wearing blinders to the dangers that I think the so-called Patriot Act represents. How are your comments on the issue any different than mine?

don't militia who blew Oklahoma building also claims to defend the Constitution?

you have some bedfellows
;-)))[/b][/quote]
At least he got a trial.

..and you think this one is gonna get away?
He sings like cannery and the ONLY people interested in him being seen by lawyers, shmoyers
are terrorists.

They have vested interest, you don't, despite all the rethorics
;_))

Let him suffer and don't lose your sleep over

..and you think this one is gonna get away?
He sings like cannery and the ONLY people interested in him being seen by lawyers, shmoyers
are terrorists.

They have vested interest, you don't, despite all the rethorics
;_))

Let him suffer and don't lose your sleep over[/b][/quote]
Fuck. Now I find out I'm not only a traitor, I'm a terrorist.

..and you think this one is gonna get away?
He sings like cannery and the ONLY people interested in him being seen by lawyers, shmoyers
are terrorists.

They have vested interest, you don't, despite all the rethorics
;_))

Let him suffer and don't lose your sleep over[/b][/quote]
I have a vested interest in resisting a tyrannical government.

"When the Government fears the people, the people live in FREEDOM, but when the People fear the Government, the People live in Tyranny”.
- Thomas Jefferson

"When the Government fears the people, the people live in FREEDOM, but when the People fear the Government, the People live in Tyranny”.
- Thomas Jefferson

was Tom Hagen...he was a Peace Time Consiglieri
;-))))

I slightly misquoted Thomas Jefferson..

"When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."

I slightly misquoted Thomas Jefferson..

"When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."[/b][/quote]
and this is 100% accurate quote from Tom Hagen:
"Tom Hagen: "Now we have the unions, we have the gambling; and they're the best things to have. But narcotics is a thing of the future. And if we don't get a piece of that action, we risk everything we have. I mean not now, but, ah, ten years from now.""


which I interpret:
"if we don't break the spine of terrorism NOW,
we are endanger the future of our children.

do you have children, KC?

The Godfather is a great piece of art. Although it's fiction.

Thomas Jefferson was real.

Here are some more of his quotes. He was able to see a lot further than just 10 years.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground."

"I consider trial by jury as the only anchor yet devised by man, by which a government can be held to the principles of its constitution".

Here are a lot more:
http://quotes.telemanage.ca/quotes.nsf/Quo...homas+Jefferson

I'm all for "breaking the spine" of the terrorists, BUT... (there's always a but)...

If they will do this to this man, an American citizen,
then they will do it to me. And you.

And just for the record, the Patriot Act scares the ever-living shit out of me. It gives the gov't FAR too much power.

they are coming to get us.

do you have any proof of that other than a guy being detained who was training with Al Queda to blow up Americans?

I didn't say they're coming to get us, so I don't have to prove anything.

I just said that if they'll do it to him, they'll do it to you.
The bladed pendulum cuts both ways, and cheering for it just because it's not cutting you at the moment doesn't eliminate the fact that it can swing over to your side.

they are coming to get us.

do you have any proof of that other than a guy being detained who was training with Al Queda to blow up Americans?[/b][/quote]
It always starts with one person.

"It behooves every man who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others."
-Thomas Jefferson