Look under leader in the dictionary and there is a picture Hitler. Look it up in German though. It's "führer".

I think we have to define greatest.

Hitler and Lenin/Stalin were very powerfil leaders, and changed the world with ideas....

It is all in how you define it.

Yeah, and the more we all begin to agree on a definition the more we'll agree all on who fits the definition. ;-)



Last edited by Colin at Oct 9 2003, 04:34 PM

Hmm, no one mentioned "Kaiser". And I don't mean "Wilhelm" either. :P

Heres a couple of peoples opinion :)

A leader is a dealer in hope. - Napoleon Bonaparte

Leadership is the art of getting someone else to do something you want done because he wants to do it. - Dwight Eisenhower

Both of whom were of course Military and Political leaders

Dravyk,
ahahahahaha
He was a bleeder! ;.-)))



Last edited by Nickatilynx at Oct 9 2003, 01:40 PM

That would leave my top 3 intact. Churchill, Gandhi, and FDR.

Oh, and I like Ike.

I knew it! Most wives are leaders!! :awinky:

Nick,

I found this one and like it ...

"Men make history, and not the other way around. In periods where there is no leadership, society stands still. Progress occurs when courageous, skillful leaders seize the opportunity to change things for the better." - Truman

Jesus said "Follow Me." And he arose and followed Him.

Matthew 9:9.

I agree.The last three words remove all dictators from contention.

They make things better for the few , at the cost of many.

Heh.

A reverse Jesus.

I must follow the people. Am I not their leader? ~ Benjamin Disraeli

ALL politicians should note this one.

"Books are fatal: they are the curse of the human race. Nine-tenths of existing books are nonsense, and the clever books are the refutation of that nonsense." - Benjamin Disraeli

PD, is it true?

"Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends of every country save their own. " - Benjamin Disraeli

I'm gonna read more about Benjamin. :-)

Is that humour?
I'll assume it was...[/b][/quote]
Let's just say I responded in kind.

As for the dealers in hope comment, damn, that would make about 75% of the strippers leaders, has anyone told them this yet? ;)

Well, now, about Reagan - I was in the military at the same time as Dan, apparently - he did give us one good pay raise (14% is what I got as an E6 - took me above the poverty level for approximately 6 months).

I have always suspected that he lost interest in us after he determined that the Army no longer had any mule trains, because after that first raise we went right back to what we'd had before - generally, slightly les than HALF the rate of inflation.

This is also the man that attempted to make Blue Helmets out of the U.S. Marine Corps, but somehow St. Ronald never seems to bear responsiblility for the 63 souls that paid the ulitmate price for that policy. We kicked the shit out of them Cuban construction workers and threw one hell of a tantrum at Ghadafi, though ...

Finally, I do not dispute that the last years of the Soviet Union were dangerous times - but I don't think they were substantially more threatening than Berlin, 1948; Cuba, 1962; or the Yom Kippur war in 1973 (which Nixon doesn't get near enough credit for). Truman & Ike began, and his successors through Reagan followed, a policy of passive confrontation - the Cold War. Crediting Reagan for the collapse of the Iron Curtain is hperbole at its best. Reagan happened to be around when it collapsed under its own weight. What would have happened had the ongoing leadership struggle that began with the death of Breshnev not ultimately been won by Gorbachev - who would rank far higher on my list than Ronnie?

KK,

OK smartass, whats your definition. ;-)))

Oh wait....you liked Nixon!

:yowsa:

:nyanya:

Nope.

Me too!

You realize dont you that Nixon was not the first one to pull the bugging of the campaign headquarters trick right ? LBJ takes that honor, without it coming out til recently, as well as leaving Nixon in a huge pickle with the Vietnam War and trying to get the troops out without wreaking total havoc in Asia? Which Nixon also managed to, tho he did lie to the S. Vietnamese government in order to accomplish it.

My definition of a great leader would depend on just what he was leading. Business would be different than politics different than religion.

Nelson Mandela

Nixon was a lot like Clinton in certain ways. Their personality flaws brought them down more than anything else. Both could have been remembered as great Presidents but they both screwed up enough to be put in the historical waste basket.

I'm glad at least a few people said FDR. His work after WW II was over is what helped map the way for the US today. Plus he was the first President to be elected after the crash of the stock market in '29, that took some balls. :D

My second choice would have to be Alexander the Great (all time).

Wig - In your line of thinking, what about "Bear" Bryant or even Red Auerbach?



Last edited by clemsontiger at Oct 9 2003, 07:12 PM

Danny said Bear! :)

I'd say Hitler /Ghandi for the 20th and Napoleon for 19th

CONFUCIUS

Vick, best blues singer: Billie Holiday :okthumb:

I admire and respect Mandela and Martin Luther King, but they could not have accomplished what they did without the example of Ghandi.

Roosevelt had the vision to edge the United States closer to the Allies in Europe than the isolationists wanted, and he (along with Marshall) was the primary architect of the two-front strategy that we ultimately fought the war with. However, IM(NS)HO, the man who deserves the credit for saving Europe from Communism is Truman. Without the Marshall Plan, Greece, Italy, and France all probably would have gone communist.

And KK - the results that President Kissenger, er, Nixon achieved in Vietnam were absolutely no different than if we had packed our happy asses up and gone home after Tet in 1968 - with the possible exception of 30,000 American and 500,000+ Vietnamese who'd be having grandbabies today. As a matter of fact, with the decimation of the Viet Cong that Tet caused, the tactical situation would have been better for the South Vietnamese that way. The idea that the Paris settlement reassured ANYONE anyplace other than in Podunk, Arkansas, about U.S. resolve in Asia is patently silly. We didn't "lie" to the South Vietnamese government - we sold them down the river.

Mandela annoys the piss out of me.

ahahahahahaha same here.

And his wife Winnie....what a peice of work.

Look under leader in the dictionary and there is a picture Hitler. Look it up in German though. It's "führer".[/b][/quote]
Thanks for the German lesson Colin, however it is one of the three languages that I am fluent in.

Hitler was a leader in the sense of the word, yes. A great leader he was not.

and Fantasyman said "Follow Me Free" !

and Fantasyman said "Follow Me Free" ![/b][/quote]
Hahaha I don't recall ever reading that one in the Bible :awinky:

Very True

It's difficult to compare Gandi, Mandela & Dr King with Hitler, Lenin & Stalin

They had a very different style to say the least.

I'd say Gandi, Mandela & Dr King were better & greater,

Though the other 3 changed the world more I'd say - though not for the better

Upon reflection, I'd like to modify my statement.

The one thing they all three have in common is to get the 'collection plate' as full as possible.

That might be a definition in and of itself Nicky baby ;)

The Noriega is your man :)

Him, Bill Gates or Larry Ellison I guess.

Damn, left out Billy Graham.

You'd break Bill Gates ;-))))

And Billy Graham would be too freaky for you , I bet ;-)))

If the list is getting this long ......


Walter Elias Disney