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Re: Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?
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That $400 a year has been more than offset in drops in hosting fees. |
Re: Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?
For me, and the work that I do, there can be great value in a show from a networking perspective. I may get new business, but the relationships that come home with me from a show are something I won't get via ICQ - and I take a long-view approach, typically. I would really like to see things like round-robin networking dinners, or non-industry speakers (because we need people to speak who aren't focused on pimping a program or safeguarding their secrets), et cetera.
Shows are incredibly valuable to me from the perspective of the job I do, and while it's certainly true everyone needs to blow off steam sometimes, there are many opportunities to make the shows a stronger opportunity for business than they are currently. |
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You know, when a company buys out about a half a dozen programs, and rather than integrating them into a great huge program, they instead keep them all seperate in little seperate companies each with it's own processing and it's own name for the cross sales, you sort of can see what is going on. Many of the "playahs" at this year's show made their money on this sort of thing in 2008 and 2009. So honest people like you and me have less reason to go to a show, because we ain't going to take the free drink and declare them as "stand up guys". Even a $5000 fee wouldn't change anything for them, but it would take out most of the remaining amateur sites in one shot. |
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This is a great thread. And while I do appreciate the kudos... I also appreciate the criticism of trade shows in general and am listening.
It's quite refreshing when the norm is a group of people who "get it" as opposed to the norm being people spouting off who don't. I'm going to put this out there regarding free badges. There is no way we are going to give everyone free admittance to Cybernet Expo and it just slays me who those who don't put together trade shows or attend one every two years are out there telling us to do it. 1. Free badges bring in riff raff and unqualified attendees 2. Free badges cheapen the trade deals I have in place as well as sponsor packages. Why should Joe Schmoe get to come to the show for free when Oprano is out there actively promoting Cybernet Expo or attorney Eric Bernstein is paying for a sponsorship so that everyone can have coffee, juice or water on their way into the seminars every morning? 3. Our badges are cheap to begin with ... this year we charged $75 all inclusive four months out from the show and then ran a $99 special for the next two months after that. People bitch all the time about tube sites killing the adult pay site model and that people need to pay for their porn. Well... the same could be said about trade shows giving it away for free as well for the purpose of traffic and/or falsely inflating their numbers. 4. This ties in with #3... I'm not looking for a "aww you poor boy" here... but lets face it. Connor and I bust our asses for Cybernet Expo and we need to be able to make just a LITTLE bit of money somehow for our 6 months plus of efforts. Almost all of the sponsorship money we make goes directly into the show... meeting space, hotel expenses, beverages, and a zillion other nickel and dime things... it adds up big time. |
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Seriously, though. I used to attend broadcasting trade shows all the time and I never paid for admission. It was always taken care of by folks like Sony or Ikegami that wanted me to see their latest and greatest. It also worked very well. The last show that I went to, I saw Sony's latest Betacam, and I bought it. It prolly cost them a few bucks for the admission, but the camera cost 62K. I made a ton of money out of that camera and it was a great choice after seeing it and playing with it at the show. That, to me, should be the end result and purpose of a trade show. We all have to make some money out of our attendance. |
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Personally I think $75 for a trade show is a very good price point. Just high enough to keep out the riffraff but cheap enough that buying tickets is no big deal.
My only real complaint about InterNEXT is how expensive it has become and not only the cost of passes. The Diplomat is about the most expensive place it could be held down here. I spent almost $60 just on parking my car and don't even get me started about the price of snacks and drinks. IMO InterNext has all but killed itself with its price point. |
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I didn't get the incredibly loud 2 Live Crew pool music. It wasn't just that I don't care for Hip Hop. It was so loud that my teeth were vibrating. Talking, as in trying to network, was impossible. I don't know... maybe I've just gotten old but it seems like the music should be kept down to a level that allows people to talk to each other.
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Maybe nation-x will pop in and address the music volume issue since it was his program launch party that they were performing at.
The costs for everything at Internext has been out of hand for some time now and probably the biggest reason I quit attending that show. The 'playas' all want someplace nice to go, which is fine, but they can go do their own thing in Curacao or Barcelona or wherever. There are still opportunities for sponsors to provide free badges without making them free to everyone. Mojohost did just exactly that at Internext. If you signed up in advance to take their data center tour they paid for your show badge. |
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I have always promoted the show on this board once I bought it.
Cybernet with its flaws has always been approachable - didnt matter if it was Fay or Jay they have always been reasonable. Fay Sharp started this show out to be more about the business and less about the music. Granted the locations have been on the cheaper side but the shows in San Diego and Tampa were some of my best networking times. Seminars were always stuffed full of people taking notes, taping and etc. Theres usually something there to learn even if its not in a seminar room. The show has attracted many program owners that do get it and spend a lot of one on one time with affiliates to forge a better working arrangement. I said it before and was ignored so Ill say it again here so it doesnt get glossed over... you can see the difference in the philosophy of these shows before and after by reading. You will have Jay out looking for the best topics for a panel and the right people to get on them, while you have Alec trolling for the play list for the music by the pool and all Ive seen out of Chris is "I love you man ... we will see you in the same places at the same time in 2010 ... wanna free ticket?." In the past Kathee Brewer and MJ were repairing these seminars like with the NATS demo. They both understand this business tried their best. Both are no longer with the company and now as Mike said we have Hirsch wanting to telling us how to build websites. Stick to hiring geniuses like AlienQ - your made for each other. Now Alec pretty much plays for a grandstand like now where hes inviting Fishbien to come into a public dialog with him. Like was said to me earlier - if he really wanted to get it done they would already be working it out in private. The free market will sort all of this out soon enough. Right now the main event for many of these shows has been the Porn Poker tour which is now looking for a better ROI. I can recall several nights in Miami in the past when thats the only thing that ws going on. How will they attract people there coming to hear 2LiveCrew with nothing to do in the evenings? We did a bit on clusterfuck theater where we called and goofed on the staff of the hotel. they told us that there was a lottery for employees to work there during Internext. Im wondering if that will hold true for next year? |
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In my previous life as an Engineer in Aerospace & Defence, I attended a number of Industry Trade Shows. They were all run basically the same. These shows include the SAMPE show (Society For The Advancement Of Material And Process Engineering), the SME show (Society Of Mechanical Engineers), as well as a couple of other directly related to Aeronautical Engineering for Materials and Processes.
The seminars were not just throw togethers with panels of friends. Six months before a show, there was a "Call For Papers" where people interested in presenting would submit a brief on what they wanted to talk about. Those papers were looked at by a panel of experts, and then short-listed. Those who made the first cut were contacted, and had two months to submit a complete paper on the subject at hand. Those were then gone through, and the final people for the various seminars were selected. I presented a paper at the October 1992 SAMPE Technical Conference entitled "Materials And Process Optimization For Dual-Shell Satellite Antenna Reflectors". I gave a brief on it at the conference and took questions. Everyone had the paper in their hands the day the conference started, so they could go through it and come up with informed questions or comments. All I received for presenting my paper was a free show badge which saved my company about $500. Real Trade Shows are well thought out affairs, with applicable seminars and show floors that truly cater to those in attendance. They are not about "friends" or the "old boys" networks. They exist to serve the industry, give the suppliers a place to promote applicable wares, and to inform through relevant and proper seminars. And of course, there are cocktail parties put on by the various suppliers. But no one runs around being stupid or getting drunk as everyone there is not only representing themselves but their companies. At a Trade Show, there is no down time, you are always on and always working. I've never seen a huge party at any of the Trade Shows I've attended in my other industries. There was always a sponsored welcome cocktail party, cocktail parties held by various suppliers in different suites, and a closing cocktail party. That was it for "parties". Dinners were all smaller affairs and meant for work and networking. Suppliers were open to snealing away with you for a beer, but it was still all about business. The thing we knew about Trade Shows was they were there to learn and work, not party. Many guys that were friends would leave in the evening to party it up away from the conference hotel, but no one would ever make an ass of himself amongst his peers. That would kill your career there and then! I also did a few publishing Trade Shows when I was in university and working for the newspaper. Those were basically the same with applicable show floors and seminars. That really is the reason I stopped going to shows, they were an embarrassment! If I want to drink and party, I can do that close to home. If I want to travel to party, well, I'll do it as a holiday. To me, a Trade Show is about work and I do try to treat it as such. Our industry shows tend to have totally useless seminars done with no preparation or planning, and given by people without the requisite experience! I've honestly yet to hear anything useful at a show seminar, it's all been about "Buy My Shit!". |
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But hey what do I know? Im unemployeed right? |
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To get back to the question: Are Trade Shows a Thing of the Past?
I don't think they are. But they will have to remodel themselves and drop out of the "more bling is more bucks" attitude that made the Vegas Internext shows something to stay away from. Quote:
We learned from our own office parties at trade shows by overspending on a split up of space: one for dancing/party and one for talking/networking. Had a big light show and overpriced DJ at the back, and subdued mellow shop-talk room at the front... guess which paid off? The back room was empty most of the night, but our front room was packed... shows are for schmoozing. You can stay home and be blinded and deafened at a disco for less, if that's what you're into. But create an atmosphere where disparate people can connect, meet face-to-face often for the first time, network and trade ideas, and you have a success. The tradeshows will just have to lean down and get back to the business of business if they want to survive, and we'll all profit from that. I myself am looking forward to the newer "old" formats :P Dos centavos. |
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also if its business why does there have to be loud parties, excessive drinking and half naked models. Most of us look at naked chicks all day long whether its shooting them or looking on a screen. Its like it doesnt make you cool to have a bunch of paid girls half naked at a show its a waste of time and money. I think you took those things out you would have a much smaller show but a much more serious one.
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As an indie paysite owner I've felt a little out of place at the shows I've been to so far (Internext & Xbiz in Vegas), they definitely don't feel like they cater to small business owners like myself. I have enjoyed the connections I've made and picked up some valuable information at the shows but I have to say that private get-togethers and content shooting meets are a much better use of my travel dollars and time usually.
Then again without going to them I never would have met Gonzo and got to bowl naked at his party, which is a memory I will cherish forever even though it totally supports what you guys are saying about useless drunken antics instead of business... |
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Good thread and some interesting viewpoints, I'd like to see companies offering more software or equipment as well, but as was pointed out not quite feasible. The first show I went to was in Chicago circa 1985, it was actually a CES show and the porn section was kind of like an addendum to the electronics show. Is that not how the shows were born, out of CES shows which were originally in Vegas, I think?
Anyhow, hope the low attendance is just a passing fancy. Like many others I have attended trade shows for years in a myriad of industries, it's always a beautiful thing when human interaction is involved... |
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You couldn't really see much of anything for the hair anyway. |
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I've come home with a sore throat more times than I can count just from trying to talk at a club party. |
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2livecrew...
please. im sorry but im not dropping 2k to go to a show that the main focus of is "2livecrew" and thepornpokertour. if i want ignorant hip-hop i can visit any of the night clubs in the area and jam all night to "me so horny" for 100 bucks. i go to a weekly poker game, costs me 50 bucks. so, i in a nutshell have the highlights of this show for 150 dollars and do so in a local area. i personally have bitched about the shows so many times that i think they hate me. they got greedy as fuck, and figured that there wasent a bottom for them to hit. that litterly the sky was the limit and the could keep going and going. well i think that this show should clearly demonstrate that is not the case. |
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Never been to any trade show for adult. I can not comment about how they have been run or organized. I DO KNOW that I was told years ago ( 1999-2000 ) it was a waste of time by several other amateur webmasters, so we never worried about going. What does that say about how things were run???
On a related note, we used to go to many amateur web girl meetings here in Florida. One of my favs was a party hosted by Honez in Daytona. Ideas were exchanged, photo shoots done or arranged and they were awesome fun and productive. They have all but disappeared now ... have not been to one of those since the 9/11 fall of the web ... |
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I find I get more at dinners like we all did sat. And I agree hellpuppy the music is nuts, we didnt go back sun to the atl forum because my voice was gone. As far as branding I have been to a few things sponsored by the big boys, I never used their product or pushed their service. To me its much more powerful, I come on here ask people their thoughts and buy a product based on that. Then who bought drinks and naked girls. Maybe I have been in adult too long over 25 yrs, to me its a business nothing more. The cool look at the naked chicks lost its luster a long time ago.
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I've continued to think about this, and I think it all starts with the attendees. And with the show operators, the type of show you put on dictates what type of attendee you draw.
Somewhere along the way, almost all of the adult industry shows became party shows. I think a lot of that is because that's what attendees came to expect. The attendees were going to see friends and business partners, have some good meals, go out to the clubs and in some cases maybe get wide and snort something off a strippers ass. Deals done were incidental as the real work was always done by email and icq back at the office anyway. You might meet someone new, hear an idea, but the shows were social. In many cases the sponsors were there to entertain their best traffic providers just to make sure someone else didn't buy 'em toot and hookers and lure away those clicks. This all worked well and good when the web was full of newbs who would easily part with their credit cards and sign up. Insane amounts of money were flying all over. Fast forward to now. The money isn't there on either side. ROI is king. So what are the attendees who still have money to go to shows today looking for? I think there are a lot of answers in these threads, let's see who acts upon it. Personally, I'd like to do maybe 3 shows next year. I dont do drugs of any kind. I dont do hookers. I will drink socially, but I can afford to buy my own good booze instead of whatever is in the well. Though i can be suckered in with a really good meal. I do like to learn new things, and I am always on look out for new business however. |
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The shows face a real weird problem:
If there aren't a whole ass load of parties, nobody seems to want to show up. If they have the parties, people show up, party all night, are useless all day, and the only time you meet anyone is when they are too drunk and the music is too loud. No ROI on that one. |
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I think there is a grossly underserved market of business people, especially small business operators, contained within the adult industry. The same guys the bro's and ballers have always made fun of ironically. Either way, the shows have to get "right sized". Shows drawing 3000 or more people are done. Shows drawing 300 might very well be done. |
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For anyone who thinks that adult trade shows are done- I suggest you attend Adult Novelty Expo along with several other very populas shows.We had over 150 exhibtiors at ANE.
AEE is still going strong, albeit not as strong as it has been in the past - but still strong. Before you start name calling I suggest you look within at your own business to see what you can do to improve- as I will be doing the same. :waving: |
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Oh and Gonzo - i fully respect your opinions and realize that you were close with MJ and Cat. Cat is still writing for us as is tom hymes who I also hae the utmost respect for.
Obviosly I need to earn your trust - I hope I can do so in the future. |
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Return my call / ICQ / email when Im asking for details about a show that Im responsible for overseeing. I really didnt know Monty that well but he was open and professional to me the entire time he was with your company. MJ being gone is a loss. I dont know Tom very well either but I found him of the utmost level of professionalism when he moderated the panel I was on in Vegas. He was very prepared and talked to the issues. Rare. Ya scored on this readdition. Kathee I have to admit I have known for several years and she should be writing for several tech and adult magazines as she is both knowledgeable and professional about any subject she takes on. You guys should pay her more and listen to her about repairing the mess the magazine is in as well as the website. I cant remember when I went to AVNonline for any news. Outside of my own sources my first stop is Xbiz- followed by Ynot and then when Im checking the ad rotation Ill see what the beermasters are doing at GFY. Each of your fellow employees will tell you Ive never been an AVN ass kisser. Ive told them like it was straight up. Just like the conversations Ive had in the past year with Anne, Kristin and now Alec. We dont agree on every point but if someone asks in earnest Im going to be honest. Being Southern Im just not much for the LA porn royalty show. As we say down here... "Dont Sing It - Bring it!" Every one of the show owners in that thread at GFY all agreed on ONE thing - its time for a change. However didnt really see much substance being discussed beyond that by anyone. I dont have anything personal against you. I dont know you. But the business as reached a point where none of this is a joke and anyone that treats it as such will be joining KB on stage in a comedy routine. [I hear hes very good] I challenge any of you to step up to the plate and "sell" us on why we should attend your show going forward. 2Live Crew isnt a draw. I know the guys that hired Dmoney and I dont think they intended the promo to be a show draw. $300 for a ticket to sit at a resort hotel isnt either - its ego stroking. Dont tell me how you guys do that to keep out the riff raff when every night I see the pool area lined with local hookers wearing a mysterious "talent" badge. They are HOOKERS. They arent shooting scenes they are selling ass. And honestly Chris if im going to take a vacation - Im certainly not going to do it with the rest of the industry. I see enough of this all day - every day. Lets be honest. The shows started out as an excuse for guys in this biz to go party and get some ass. I should know - at the time I used this excuse to get away from my 9-5 job where this was just a hobby. And it was awesome. Where else can you get that smashed and hang out with women that you used to jerk your dick to when you were a kid PLUS new eager fresh faces as well. It was like shooting fish in a barrel and some of the best times of my life. Everything had just started and I dressed in suit and hung out on the rim of the activity. Theres a picture somewhere around here that my datacenter partners took of me with Nina Hartley,Porsche Lynn and Cristy Lake piled up on a couch. Back then web guys didnt mix well with the dvd stars. And one of the funniest times was in Miami turning down being filmed getting a blow job. I hadnt eaten but twice the time I was there becasue of the Cyebrerotica multiple free bars and this chick insisted that I be able to pop a massive load on cam. I grew out of this as time went on and I realized that not only could I make a living out of this but I was pretty good at it too. However the shows never did grow out of it. And now yall need to innovate as well as the rest of us. |
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Save that shit for GFY. Ive been at the past 5 AEE shows. Slowly but surely you guys have allowed teeth whitening booths, donate for a prayer and people just selling shit to take over at least a 3rd of the back portion of the hall. The Palms for Internext is a shit hole. I hear they treat the locals better than they treat us. Several people were bumped the first night of the first year down the strip. And hotel management's attitude was FUCK you. Im not sure how I avoided the bump when I saw the Mighty 12clicks sent down the road much to his disdain. I wouldnt be surprised if many people stayed elsewhere this year in order to make the trip and just hung out at the bar and skipped a badge. Your missing the point - the name calling across the boards is because the input you get seems to fall on deaf ears. Everyone is frustrated. The business as a whole wants these things to improve. They must improve for the better of us all. Yet wheres the Summer show going to be in 2010? |
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Hotel: $600.00 Food: Negotiuable Total Tab: $600.00 - $1000.00 That loving feeling : priceless..... And finally as for our attendance... we more attendees thatn any other adult digitalmedia trade show.. If the qty of shows thinned out... which vegas will be a great example of... we will see if this improves show quality.... Can you save judgement until then.... |
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Vegas will be at the Palms - Summer will most likely be at the westin again because of contracts... personally I would like to take the show to Cancun... |
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I think this thread may actually get some results VS the one at the the zoo...:clapping: |
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Also Gonzo - let me tell you a few of the things we are doing to make the experience better for both attendees and sponsors:
1. Lowering Prices for Webmasters 2. Lowerng Sponsorship Prices by as much as 50% 3. Combining Vegas and AEE in ne mega week super show.. No Break 4. Lowering prices to encourage more suite parties /networking events 5. Not allowing OUTSIDE PARTIES - your not involved your not involved. 6. :-pearl: I appreciate all feedbacjk... please leave here as it seems to be a more intelligent posting forum.. |
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