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Re: Americans: You have te right to bear arms
I can appreciate idealism.
But the reality is in the U.S. the criminals have guns. They also have no respect for life or personal property. Any plans to disarm honest law abiding citizens should include a plan to disarm these guys first. Until then, I'll keep mine, thank you very much. Paranoid? Yeah, I probably am, I also lock my doors and have a burglar alarm. For some reason, I seem to think not everyone is honest and might decide they want some of my stuff. I know we all work in the adult business and do not know of anyone who would be dishonest, but what the heck. I have no desire to shoot anyone. But break into my house in the middle of the night, and I will defend myself and my property. The real issue at the heart of all of this is individual rights, freedoms and responsibility. We live in an increasingly socialist world where people do not want to take care of themselves they expect the government to do it for them. I just do not have that kind of confidence in the government's ability to execute, therefore one of those rights I'm very protective of is my right to defend myself and my property against the criminal element. Sorry, but there's a couple of home invasions a month in my zipcode, and it's not like I live in the ghetto. So from where I sent the government isn't doing a good enough job to feel I should just let them take care of it. |
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Re: Americans: You have te right to bear arms
I hate to say it, but if you are the victim of a home invasion, your pea shooter will prolly get you killed. It might make you feel better to go down fighting, but you ain't gonna shoot down five or ten guys before they either cap you or take your piece and do you with your own weapon.
I lost my idealism years ago when pragmatism overwhelmed me. This decision is the last gasp of the Bush era to really finally fuck the United States. Legal guns lead to legal killing. Only the collective will of the people should kill people legally. Not a moron with a sixth grade education that "thinks" he is being threatened. Not that anyone here is that guy, but they are allowed to purchase deadly weapons. And as for those that have an arsenal, have a nice day because there is not one fucking good argument for that shit. None. |
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In my case, again, I would take that bet. Ya see, I was raised with guns from the time I was kid. I was taught to respect them and handle them safely. I was also taught to shoot them accurately, very accurately. In high school, every saturday morning was spent shooting. Yeah, I know that probably seems foreign to many, target shooting for fun and sport. And this is why I wont jump in this particular debate more than once a year. It's cultural. Here in the deep south, most males are raised with guns. Hunting is a huge sport. Redneck values are hard to understand sometimes if you haven't been raised with them or around them. Ya see, most anyone in my family if they knew you were hungry, down on your luck or whatever, they would feed you. If they only had $10 to their name, and they thought your family truly needed it, they'd give you $5 of it. But, try to enter the house and take it by force or just without asking, and it's a different story. And whatever you do, dont endanger anyone in the family. Even the little old ladies in the family know how to use a shot gun. I dont expect outsiders and non-gun cultures to get it. And it's just like religion, you'll never change anyone's mind. |
Re: Americans: You have te right to bear arms
..and how many "non-victims" end up dead or wounded because the home invader snatched the gun away from them and used it on them, or perhaps came armed themselves?
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You can't put tooth paste back into the tube.
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Hunting is also a huge sport in most areas of Canada. Americans are always up here for "real hunting", as they call it. And we do have some of the best hunting in North America. We have the largest moose, elk, caribou, and White Tail & Mule deer. There is also black bear and Grizzly, mountain goat, Big Horn Sheep, and even more. Most, larger and harder to hunt than in the US. Anyone born and raised in a rural community in Canada was brought up with rifles and shotguns, but very few see the point in owning a handgun. To them, it's just a paper weight you can't really do anything with. This discussion isn't about guns in general, but about hand guns. To see the difference between the US and Canada, just look at the rates of violence with hand guns between the two countries. It's truly a night and day difference. The talk is about protection, but how often do people actually get to a gun during a home invasion? Odds are if you have a gun for protection, and try and use it, you will lose....and how good a shot you think you are on the range just doesn't factor in. |
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If I want to "share" my collection with you, I would. But I find the question more akin to "How many Dollars do you have?" Why are you asking? Do you want to rob me or something? How many dollars Do YOU have? I think it's a "valid" question. |
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But Handguns we do. And that's the point of contention here. |
Re: Americans: You have te right to bear arms
Handguns are for hunting.....
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I know that here in Missouri and also down in Florida you are perfectly legal to give a gun (rifle or handgun) as a gift. You do not have to file any paper on it. Because of the fed regulations, there will probably be paperwork on the original purchase but it can be passed on and on without any additional paper being filed. |
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You're making the point. Pimply faced has it. So we do too. You are right about the culture though. I won't deny that. As I said earlier, Americans don't "bend" well. I know I don't. In 22 years of carrying mine, I've never "looked" for an opportunity to use it. In fact, I've dreaded the though of ever having to. I get upset when I run over a critter on the road. I certainly don't want to kill anyone, or anything. But, and this is the important point, I don't Ever want to be in the position where MY LIFE is at the whim of psycho. One of my closest friends owns a Pharmacy, and some wacko came in there with a gun to steal drugs. Held him at gunpoint. Dude is out walking the streets today because of the ineffectual law enforcement. And they KNEW who it was. I assure you, that will never happen again. Ever. |
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How do you make "peace" with a Hitler? With a Saddam Hussein? With a North Korea? With a Khmr Rouge? How did those countries feel when the Iron curtain closed over them? How is "peace" working out for Darfur? How do people like you stand by and watch that shit, speaking "peace?" Makes my blood boil. I have ZERO tolerance for rape, murder, and worse of the women and children of the world. If it were up to me, the marines would have already landed. Following a surgical strike of the entire political power structure. Argue your "peace" to those people, pal. All your mealy mouth "sanctions," and "niceties" hasn't done much, now has it? How many have to be tortured and killed? You live in the shadow of our protection. But for it, you would have been "subjected" long ago. You can squawk about it all you want. We don't expect you to thank us for it. Hell, we don't even expect you to shut up about it. But don't ever imagine we don't all know what the real score is. |
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And where do I sign up for THAT plan? Castle doctrine all the way! |
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Guess you best move to the magical land of "peace." They don't have to get our guns...they can walk in any Canadian home (Which are usually unlocked) and procure the guns at home. No need to cross the border and take a risk. Let's turn that around? How about YOU secure your weapons a little better, so people don't steal them in your unlocked homes, bring them here, and commit crimes? |
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How quickly we forget.....The "Europeans," as you put them, would not have guns, save for us, and our "war mentality." They would be speaking German, and having No rights. we tried to stay out of that war too, if you recall. But people that didn't believe in peace didn't give us that choice. |
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Investment. Every one of my guns has gone up in value and in fact several of them have doubled and tripled in value since I got them. Gun value traditionally only goes up, never down. |
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If you take away the guns, they WILL melt the manhole covers...probably into clubs, at first. Then they will CHOOSE to do wrong with them. Without a hand to operate it, the gun is just as much of a killer as the manhole cover. Don't blame the tool. |
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Personally, I don't want to "kill" anyone. Not alone, and not as a part of a "collective will." Maybe you should re-examine your motives? You juts don't get it, and probably never will. We don't WANT to kill anyone. But we're not afraid to, if necessary. |
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And my handguns have never been used for those purposes. Look at it this way....my guns were purchased "used." I have removed them from the potential damage stream, so I'm a "steward" of the weapons, keeping them safe. But you'll spend those dollars, and they might kill someone. How would you know if someone else makes a decision with them after you don't control them anymore? |
Re: Americans: You have te right to bear arms
I was born an American, and as such, I am granted certain rights set forth by our founding fathers. Maybe they didn't know what this country would be in 10, 20, or 200 years from when they were written, but I sure as shit wouldn't trust any of the politicians today to sit down to write a new set.
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As a side note, you are only "steward" of the weapon until it is stolen from you, used against you by a family member, or what have you. If you transport it ever by car, the chance that you get carjacked or your car stolen or broken into... there are plenty of ways for your gun to end up in the hands of criminals. You don't control it for life, only while it is in your hand. |
Re: Americans: You have te right to bear arms
The gun argument is always an endless one. Same as religion and political arguments.
If you don't like guns, don't buy one. US residents have a constitutional right to buy - own firearms, and they will exercise their rights. You can even obtain a carry permit (ccw) if you can prove you have a reason to do so and are able to pass a review process (required) to grant you that privilege. I live in a rural area and handguns as well as rifles are used for hunting, and varmint control. Although it isn't unusual for me to hear gunfire, especially around deer hunting season I don't have any of the gun problems you would normally associate with the big cities. I live in an agricultural area, not Detroit. Keep in mind that there are stupid people in every country that use firearms to commit violent crimes, no exceptions for any country. Stupid people live in every country on every continent and there is always a "black market" to purchase illegal guns. Lastly, please remember that not all of America is as depicted/reported on Fox News. After all, according to the press if we visit B.C. there is a good possibility we could have our feet chopped off and thrown in the bay. So.....using that logic we can assume that all of the B.C. Canadians must carry big knives and love to commit violent hack and slash crimes.....right? Silly argument isn't it? |
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Our troops are dying in Afghanistan, and they are only there to support the effort started by the US, and then almost dropped by the US so Bush could get his Iraq fix and get even more Americans killed. Please think before you post. Our soldiers fight and die, right alongside yours, and have for well over a hundred years. To call them "pussies" is a great insult, and would garner you an immediate slap in the face in person (although, I'd probably get shot) |
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Just love you "doom and gloom" guys...wanting to blame the tools for your own shortcomings. |
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As I said earlier in my posts, I am not against firearms at all. I'm against the rational many people use for possessing those guns. I cringe whenever I hear "self-defense" as that rarely works out well for anyone. |
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Sorry Danny.....not directed at all Canucks. Just the "pussy peaceniks." :waving: |
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Your personal possession of a handgun has nothing to do with war or peace. If it did, you would have less argument from most people. if you were actually helping to repel an invading force, or kill terrorists in the streets, you might actually have support. You aren't doing any of that, so why support you? Nobody here has addressed my simple questions: Outside of killing or threatening to kill, what use is a hand gun? Where do criminals get handguns from? It isn't about war, or being a peacenik or anything like that. Focus. I know you can do it. |
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"investment" isn't a very good reason. I have no doubt that there are plenty of other things you could have invested in that would give a good return as well, without risking the safety of your family or neighbors. After all, if investment was the reason to buy a gun, you would have them in a safety deposit box and not in the drawer next to your bed. |
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As far as home protection goes a shotgun beats the shit out of any handgun. My wife's weapon of choice is an M1, again, not a handgun. But handguns go up a lot quicker in value so are a better investment in my opinion, although the M1 has gone up in value about 300% as the WWII vintage get harder to find. A Girand in particular would be a great investment opportunity. |
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I'm sure everything YOU do is for a civilization saving "reason," eh? This is exactly what you don't get. NO REASON IS NECESSARY. It's a GUARANTEED right. You don't Have to answer to someone for it. Now, you get back to asking "mother may I," to the queen, and your government. |
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Okay, now... dumb question: If huge numbers of guns are produced each year (millions in the US) why would they go up in value? Rarity is usually an indication of increasing value, but if everyone is being good citizens such as yourself and locking them and not leaving them lying around to be stolen, why would they ever go up in price? I can understand the idea of very rare (vintage) weapons, say from the civil war, having some clear value, but I cannot picture why a standard .38 revolver (that literally millions of copies have been made of) would be worth anything... EJ, you miss the point again (I think you are purposely going there). I am not asking you the legal question, but the moral one. Why do you need a gun? I find it hard that you cannot understand that criminals got their handguns from somewhere... so the issue most gun owners use to justify purchase (for protection!) is just feeding the fire a little more. Perhaps if every adult in the US was required to pay an extra $500 (price of a decent handgun) to the local police force each year, they could do more protecting for you. Perhaps if the gun lobby wasn't so strong, there would be an automatic life imprisonment for anyone commiting a felony with a handgun. Perhaps one day people like you might see that their love of weapons is in fact the reason they are needed. |
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Moral question? Why is it a "Moral Question?" Why are you a pornographer? If want to start talking "Morals?" I don't see it as a "moral" question, so I don't have a "moral" answer for you? I did give very sound reasons earlier.....as if I needed a reason, but I did answer. Simply put, because THEY have them. "They," as in any one that would want to subject me or mine to their will in whatever form offends me. A Gun puts me on equal footing with the "bad guys." The genie is out of the bottle, and "they" have them. Let me give you something to think about.....had it been possible for Americans to carry guns on planes, do you really think 2 of them would have crashed into the towers? That happened because the terrorist counted on a passive response from crew and passengers. And they (The terrorists) knew they had "Superior weapons." The plane that crashed here in Pennsylvania would certainly have turned out differently, had the people that fought back had suitable weapons to neutralize the terrorists. They tried, but were without the necessary tools. They DID stop the plane from crashing into Washington. Had they been "peaceniks," and not "angry Americans," we would have had a greater tragedy, wouldn't we? There's an argument for arming every American. Why don't Israeli Airlines get Hijacked? Armed air Marshals. Or don't you think police should have guns, either? |
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I am in the market to purchase a weapon for protection I was thinking of getting a Ruger mark III .22 calibur. I am use to firing rifles; m14, m16, and other assault rifles, I have fired the glock 45 and it had a kick to it, but I was very accurate with it, just not a good feel for my size! Any suggestions?
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