Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

Ahhhhh.. I love talking about this topic!!


Let's take Timon who basically says he is SOOOO not going to heaven!! ;) Or make it easier and someone who is in prison for murder and truly repents and confesses their sins.

Then lets take someone who is a good and pure person who lives their lives in accordance to every one of the commandments EXCEPT that they refuse to believe in God.


According to the bible the second person doesn't have a chance of getting into heaven even though they have lived a virtuous life and contributed to society. And it all boils down to that one little thing... not believing in God.

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

I'll expand on my post:

It must be frightening being old and the only thing you've got is your wife, your dope and the idea that one day it's all over.

I'll take having my wife, my son and the hope that when I pass I'll be re-united with all my family and friends, while I watch over my loved ones still here.

Hmmm.... I guess you're right... I do think it must be shit/suck being like you, Sar and DrGuile.... :hmm:

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

Dear TE ;)

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

TE...you will be astounded at how much having kids alters your views on life. It does that to everyone. You go from thinking about life from your own perspective to having every action, every decision measured against "how will this effect my children?" It's wonderful, frightening as hell and exhausting.

When a person who *does* believe in an afterlife attempts to get his/her head around *not* believing in one, they do feel it sucks. They're projecting their own feelings, as it isn't possible for them to grasp what the other person feels. It's one of the ultimate "apples and oranges" situations. Doesn't make one right and the other wrong, it just makes it difficult for the two to understand what the other one feels.

:bitchslap

Quit that, scrumptious! :wub:

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

50 points to whomever can come up with the text to the poem that starts out "Abu Ben Adam, may his tribe increase."

I encountered it in high school. It covers this very topic and wonderfully. It helped form one of the bricks in my own personal theological foundation.

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

See, now here is where you and I disagree. I think it is perfectly ok to believe in what you want to believe. I may not believe but I would never force that belief on others. I will happily dicuss/debate the issue if it is brought up by somebody but I won't actively go out and try and change their minds about the issue unless it's a topic they wish to actively debate/discuss. Even then it is more about stating my opinion rather than trying to change their mind. It's none of my damn business. Who am I to try and take away someones belief that they hold dear and helps them through the course of their life? Especially when the issue is one that basically can't be settled until one dies.

My wife and I used to discuss this issue constaantly as she believes in God stronger than anybody I have ever known. We both enjoyed, and actually still talk about the issue, talking about it quite a bit but I never actively tried to change her mind on the issue because it isn't my place to do so. I respect her greatly for her belief because I know of no one who tries to live up to that belief every day of their life more than she does.

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

This topic is one of the most exhilirtating topics to talk about at ANY time IMHO. Maybe it's the Philosophy major in me but I can talk about theological and philosophical issues all day and every day!! :)

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

I agree wholeheartedly with that statement Peaches. I'l debate the issue with anyone who wants to talk about it but I never do it with the intention of actively trying to change their belief but rather why i believe the way I do. What works for one does not necessarily work for another. :)

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

What are your fundamental beliefs chap? Why are we here?

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

See, believing there is nothing after this life doesn't bother me one bit. Maybe it is hard for you to understand but it's true. I find it bizarre that someone could think it frightens/bothers me that I won't have an afterlife.

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

You can chose ...

IMO , heaven or hell is in each and everyone of you.

TE , I feel sorry for you mate , anyone reading your posts can see you are bitterly unhappy. :(

Try and find something you can believe in.Anything.

:)

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

Then I guess we'll carry on as before. You happy with yours and me happy with mine.

I do find it interesting that you say "won't" and not "don't".

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

I'm a big bang, evolution advocate, no afterlife atheist who hass a mixture of heavy doses of liberal and libertarian beliefs, with a bit of conservative ones thrown in as well, about life. :) As to the why we are here... it's because in the whole of the universe the billions upon billions of possibilities led us to where we are today and that it is quite arrogant to believe that in the vastness that is space we are the only ones in it with intelligence.

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

I appreciate those kind of posts because I know them to be heartfelt. :)

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

It really is.

Cheer the fuck up!!! lol

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

Bullshit. You force your beliefs on the world around you in every decision you make.

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

And as for you!!!!

You are happy enough , you old git...just mischievious LOL

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

That's garbage, I've just decided to make a pot of coffee, the rest of the world was unaware until just now...

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

Yep. I was totally unaware of Trev's coffee making.
Unless, of course, his desire to make a pot of coffee was triggered by *my* making a pot of coffee a bit ago. :blink:

I wonder what else I can make Trev do? :yowsa:

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

You can cause damage without being aware you are causing damage.

You can become damaged without being aware that you are damaged.


"For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" Sir Isaac Newton circa a whole long time ago

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

Secondary Response:

What did the coffee think about that ? :blink:

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

A small correction if I may:

it is quite arrogant to believe that on this planet we are the only ones with intelligence.

:okthumb:

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

So you're applying a law of force to decision making... mkay then :blink:

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

The coffee was a little upset at the lack of a press release announcing it's pending arrival.

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

I'm talking about going out and actively trying to chnage minds and trying to convert everyone to my atheistic beliefs. It's really quite simple.

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

Bigger correction: it's quite arrogant to believe that we have any "intelligence" whatsoever.

I'm curious: you've tied several things together here. I'm a religious person, who believes in evolution. (I'm a little leery of "The Big Bang" theory and will be until someone explains to me exactly what it was that went "bang.") I don't believe in a "grand design" kind of "why are we here?" thing. There's a reason why you are here; there's a reason why I am here, etc - but they aren't the same reasons. I also don't believe we're the only ones in the universe. Gaia - or we could use "Mother Nature" here - isn't big on waste. A huge universe with absolutely nothing or no one in it seems like a terrible waste of space, not to mention being boring as hell. I don't believe in a boring universe, either.

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

When I make a decision to poot it causes large tidal waves on the other side of the world. I can't prove it though ;)

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

I admit that this thread surprised me – I did not know Sar was a Moslem. (“They was all Moslems, Tom said, and when I asked him what a Moslem was, he said it was a person that wasn't a Presbyterian. So there is plenty of them in Missouri, though I didn't know it before.” Huck Finn (Mark Twain), Tom Sawyer Abroad, Page 1, Paragraph 5)

Belief in an afterlife is not a prerequisite for achieving quality of life. The fact that I do or don't believe in a state of existence subsequent to this one has no bearing on whether this existence is worth enduring.

Why are we here?

Because we are.

It is really that simple.

That's a hard one for people to accept. After all, at least in the West, as children we are taught that "because is not an answer."

Except that sometimes it is. As usual, the fucking grownups were lying.

I dunno about the whole idea of God. Grew up a Christian. Might have read a book or two about other concepts - I'm sure the library records are now in my file in Washington. :)

It's all just man trying to wrap his head around the whole "why are we here" question, and having been programmed that "because is not an answer" by the lying fucking adults, he comes up with something else (even if that something else is "there is no point"). Then ego kicks in, and the holder of idea A has to denigrate the holder of idea B to make himself feel better about his own uncertainty.

So I dunno what’s true or what’s not true. I am an Agnostic. If you can't prove your idea to me by putting something in my hand, or showing me something under a microscope or in a telescope, then your idea is no better than his or hers or mine. Smug nonbelievers are no more and no less insufferable than smug believers.

What do I believe?

In a silly-ass song from the play "Hair" is a line that goes "I believe in God, and I believe that God believes in me."

To crudely paraphrase a discussion between Anna and the King of Siam, "seven days or seven million years, the miracle of creation is the same."

And to quote a wise man, "Sometimes the light is shining on me, and other times I can barely see. Lately it occurs to me what a long strange trip it's been."

Essentially, that has been the gist of my "theology" since 1970.

Thus endeth the reading of the Word.

Bird is the word.

Um-papa uuuh moow moow.

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

Is a decision an "action" ?

If you make a decision (any decision) are there consequences ?

If you fail to make a decision (which is by default making a decision) are there consequences ?

Yes, the laws of motion can be applied to decisions.

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

A decision is not an action.

Deciding I need coffee from the store does not get the coffee here.

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

No they can't, the laws of force and motion are just that - the laws of force and motion.

You're statements answer themselves:

If you make a decision (any decision) are there consequences?

If you fail to make a decision (which is by default making a decision) are there consequences?

Decisions and actions have consequence... they aren't equal or opposite though.

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

I was luckier. I was raised Roman Catholic, where "it's a mystery" was the stock answer for most questions in Catechism class. The "no answer" answer. Even has a kid I knew that meant "we haven't got a fucking clue."

We're here because we're supposed to be...if we weren't supposed to be, we wouldn't be. Why are we supposed to be? No fucking clue.

One of the most comforting, wonderful ephiphanies I ever had in my life was the realization that I don't have to know. I'm not in charge. Whoever or whatever the Supreme Being is, I know for certain it isn't me. Therefore, the universe will unfold exactly as it should without any understanding or intervention on my part. I can sit back and enjoy the ride.

I like the ride. From where I'm sitting I can look out my living room window and watch hawks ride the air currents and hummingbirds feed off the jade plant. Discussing theology with Opranauts is a nice thing to do on a day when the sun is shining and the birds are flying.

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

The logical conclusion of the decision "I need coffee from the store" is to somehow put your body/mind/whatever into motion to obtain the coffee from the store, not getting the coffee.

If you do not decide that you need coffee then the logical conclusion is that you will not get into motion to obtain the coffee and if in fact there was no coffee in your pantry then you would end up out of coffee.

So, in fact each decision is an action and each action produces a reaction.

action: decision - I need coffee from the store.
reaction: body/mind goes into motion to obtain coffee.

action: decision - I will use the car to go to the store to get the coffee.
reaction - grab car keys and head for the door.

etc etc so on so forth ad infinitum....

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

Decisions are not actions, acting on a decision is.

It is every bit as arrogant, and ignorant to say "THERE IS NO AFTERLIFE" as it is to say "THERE IS ONE".

Truth is we simply do not know. But we are gonna find out, maybe, maybe not.

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

A consequence is merely the result of an action or a reaction. The presence of a consequence affirms the presence of the action.

And they are opposite and equal :okthumb:

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

Nope your reactions are the actions in these statements

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

So by that thinking it must be true that for every person that decides you're a mental cocksucker, there is a person the decides you're a sane pussy licker... Sorry but it doesn't work that way.

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

A decision is a mental process (I need coffee).

An action is a physical process (I go get coffee).

The decision has no impact UNLESS you take action.

If a decision was an action, I would have lost 75 pounds and no longer consume tobacco products.

I have made the decision that I need to loose weight many times. I have made the decision that I need to quit smoking many times.

My failure to take subsequent actions to effect those changes does not negate the decision.

The decision that you need coffee has an impact on no one.

The action of going to get coffee can impact many people. If, for example, you run over a cop in a crosswalk the impact of your actions (leaving the house, starting the car, blah blah blah) will ripple around you.

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

Everyone can believe in whatever they want, educating them to my standpoint isn't much of a concern to me. A wise man once said "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

Anyway, as far as my beliefs go, I think we just regenerate through the dirt that we rot in, but I accept the possibility of a god. However, I highly doubt he/she/it would be so vein as to punish me for all eternity for not singing in praise and believing 100% in him/her/it without much scientific proof.

Re: Spirituality, Religion, it's all bullshit....
 

Au contraire, the decision was the action. To make the decisions all sorts of electrons flowed across synapses to form the thoughts. That is the action. The reaction to the thought process is taking the step that the decision calls for.