vick,

rehab is for quitters:)

What about if you paid him , 100k and he earned you 250k ?

:)

Basically what you are saying is you have the morals you can afford , and confirming you like the rest of us are a whore.

The only variable is the dollar amount ;-))) [/b][/quote]
now thats thinking like a republican:)

I thought this was an old topic... I must have missed something at the recent show...

Peaches... Gabe is a 'special' case! ;-)

What about if you paid him , 100k and he earned you 250k ?

:)

Basically what you are saying is you have the morals you can afford , and confirming you like the rest of us are a whore.

The only variable is the dollar amount ;-))) [/b][/quote]
Hahahahaha nice point. In other words, I'm a Capitalist. :rokk:

Yes, I remember that well. I believe I saw one or two people with a "what the fuck" look on their face. If you can get people in a Greek restaurant to look that way, you know you're doing good! :lol:

I remember you enjoyed the bellydancer, as well. :groucho: [/b][/quote]
sure did...but she felt ME and nobody fired her for that
:)

Hahahahaha nice point. In other words, I'm a Capitalist. :rokk: [/b][/quote]
Welcome to Oprano. ;-)))

LOL..

Remember the film when some chick gets a million bucks for fucking Robert Redford and there was this big debate over it?

well ,


I got ejected from the cinemafor screaming :
"I'll do it!!"
"Fuck , I'm even prepared to negotiate down!!!"
"And!!!!! I'm a fucking virgin"


But , I'll reiterate..

Anyone on this board can fuck me in the ass for USD 1 m.

hmmm actually ,thinking about it...I think Serge did fuck me in the ass for a couple of million. ;-)))

Ah yes, but that brings us full circle. What she did probably WAS in her job description. I doubt that "get drunk and force yourself on women" was in THIS guy's job description. <_<

Does that include shaving your ass first?
Does it include kissing first?
Can we negotiate down if you started drinking?

Not that's there's anything wrong with that

I wouldn't fire for that. I did worse under influence....and so did everybody in this thread.
Stop riding the high horses,
'cuz when you fall off them - it huits
:) [/b][/quote]
In addition to this excellent point, the entire story really is not being told.

First and foremost, from my perspective, I agree entirely with what Serge said. To further counter those hanging him out to dry, I have witnessed all to often program owners, site owners and reps coming back from shows sounding off with righteous rhetoric on boards and laughed to myself as they were the ones parading around the lobby on cocaine, ecstacy, and alcohol.

I have been drunk at shows. I have done so with some of the biggest people around. I have also been sober at shows. Deal is, the business is done on both fronts. Some of the biggest traffic sites around are owned by people that are not bound by conventional professionalism. I would say if you rule someone out for not being sober at a show, you likely limited your business potential to some degree. But to each there own.

I drink at shows. I have a good time. I try not to cross the line. I also do not judge those that choose to do more than drink. Me? I don't. But the path of the righteous is not always as promising as it seems from the exterior.

Moving on. I really had no inclination to respond to this (or any) of the threads spawned from the said event, but this thread changed my mind. This is my perspective:

He got very drunk at a show. He ravaged and harrassed several models and affiliate reps in front of significant others whom attempted to stop him. He got aggressive with them verbally. Is this groundbreaking show behavior? Not in the slightest. Was it wrong? It sure was. Here is the issue, in my opinion. He came back from the show, and was confronted regarding the issue and he denied it. He denied the accounts of what is actually more than two industry couples. Further than denying them, he made a critical error by going into Vanilla's thread on G$fy and making an insulting remark about her. He did so in a thread that obviously meant something to her.

That was stupid, immature and unclassy. Serge, Nick and KK are dead on in saying we have all been there. Maybe not because you had too much to drink, but maybe the way you behaved on a board. But what makes you a pro is being able to come forward and say you are sorry. He was unable to do that. That is the reason I would let someone go.

I am very close to both Vanilla and Stewie, and I can assure you with highest confidence that none of this would have been made public had he said nothing, even less an apology. I spoke with her last night on the phone, and to say the absolute least, she was not happy about all of this. I think at the end of the day, she would have lived with "hey, I was drunk, I am sorry about that." Wouldn't most of us?

Now, he brought them bad PR, but was it because of what he did or how he reacted afterwards? Thing about it.

ThrobX, I have known you for a long time. I do however respectfully disagree with your view. As much as I agree that this is a business processing transactions like any other business, it is still built around the sex industry, in some cases even a seedy side of the sex industry. I remember my first show, I was absolutely baffled seeing prominent guys in the hotel lobbies picking up trashy hookers and walking up to their rooms in front of everyone. This is an industry whereas parties are often times thrown at strip clubs, or even at brothels in many cases. The threshold for professionalism is more liberal. That said, cases like this will occur with more frequency. What is important is that people still respect certain, more liberal limitations.

Just my thoughts on it.

(ThrobX, can you email me? I would like your icq again...)

cory@integralnet.com

Fucking crazy the shit some people do at these shows!!! Jesus!!

After saying that Rinaldo is a hell of a guy!! If your out there Rinaldo hit me up!!

Interesting, Cory.....I've seen you pretty wasted, my friend...a particular argument between us in Phoenix comes to mind. We were both shouting at each other...actually, I believe that's how we met and have loved ever since.

Many of the examples you've given have much to do with owners of companies; and, if they wish to behave as such, then they will reap the benefits or consequences. It is their company. They get to set policy. Going broke or not is their choice.

When a rep, however, crosses lines that anyone with common sense should not cross...that's a different story.

There was a rep who used to be with a particular affiliate program..and pretty high up on the totem pole with this company. Anytime we tried to talk to him, no matter what time of day....he was in pretzel shape and unable to string two words together. When you're drunk, Cory, you get more articulate, if that's possible. See the difference?

When someone represents a company, on the clock or off....and, I'm only talking about shows now....they are presenting the face of said company....this particular person who is gone now.....lost his company business...period.

We've all been drunk; but, throwing up in public into flower pots while representing a company whose dime is paying for your trip...sorry, that's crossing the line...

Anything that reflects negatively on the company, unfortunately, is not always a good thing....whether we judge it or not.

Back in the day, we were more wild. Today, we can't afford to be.

http://www.fubarwebmasters.com/current/pra...tast/z03176.htm

Ah yes. Toy Boy.

I love that man to death. Nothing 'in the middle of the road' with him!

With my constant drunken orgies, I fear my lifespan in this industry is limited :(

I apologize for all the penises and boobs I've grabbed over the years.

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree on this. We're marketing a product, doesn't make any difference to me if it's a pencil or a pussy, we're in the marketing business. The nature of the product should have no impact on our professionalism. Just my opinion, I COULD be wrong. Your mileage may vary, etc. It's cool, of course.

Maybe this will more clearly illustrate my thoughts... Raven makes a good point. If, for example, I, as the owner of my company, choose to get drunk and obnoxious at an industry soiree, any soiled reputation is purely my OWN fault. If, however, my employee chooses to get drunk and obnoxious, then it's THEIR fault, but it ultimately reflects poorly upon ME. That's where I draw the line (income generation aside, that was more a joke than anything).

Email with ICQ number on the way. :)

Oh, Peaches, you know you don't have to apologize for that time in the limo. :awinky:

You make great points. This is why I love you :)

I guess maybe I feel that had he just said he was sorry "under the table," then he would have saved himself a lot of headaches.

I may have defended the actions a little too much. I was just really bothered when he took a shot at her after she never said a word.

Thank you for pointing out how articulate I am when I have been drinking, it has taken years of practice! LOL

The sad fact of life is that despite all the shoulds, oughts and ifs, a decision like this would come down to income & what effect a person's departure would have on that.

Exactly!!!!!!

Well it was ok until the penises and boobs were on the same one person and pics were taken

B)

Oh fucking dog bollocks, just what we needed here , another smart Brit!!!!

Turtle soup for all!!!! :wnw:

You are dead balls on , with your point mate .

Always amazing to me...

This wouldn't even be debateable outside of this industry. However, there will always be those at shows who want to "live the life" as part of playing this game.

This is way out of bounds for me. I cant imagine ever hiring anyone who I could even imagine representing my company at a trade show and behaving in this manner. With that in mind, if he did, he's a fired ass because I obviously misjudged his character.

I would also say that I'm not about to send a kid who I know is unlikely to have been exposed to the level of partying this industry can do, and may not be able to hold his liquor, to a show without someone to stick to him like glue and mentor him a bit. There is some management responsibility as well as personal responsibility.

Dude, :biglaugh:

Grimm was throwing into the pot,
Sig was throwing into the toilet ball...

in 2003 their company made $15,000,000 in revenues

I'd hire BOTH in a heart beat
:)

Dude, :biglaugh: [/b][/quote]

:D

Did he ever apologize to the people he endangered? Not ripping on anyone, just curious.


I don't think there's more than 2 people in this thread that haven't done something much "wilder" than the event described. Getting drunk and getting wild with someone is a good bond! I can think of a few people that I got into business with because we bonded and became friends from a night of drinking and getting nutts.

I'll take one of those spots.

I would agree.

My only trouble with this particular story is that his "getting wild" involved abusing women...

call me rosy-drguile, but that's innaceptable... throw up whereever you want, I dont give a fuck, pick fights with dangerous people, trash furniture, spend your mortgage on hookers... who cares?

But sexually abusing people? Not so good...

But sexually abusing people? Not so good... [/b][/quote]
right. I think fistfighting can make you look like a loser too.

:D

Did he ever apologize to the people he endangered? Not ripping on anyone, just curious.


I don't think there's more than 2 people in this thread that haven't done something much "wilder" than the event described. Getting drunk and getting wild with someone is a good bond! I can think of a few people that I got into business with because we bonded and became friends from a night of drinking and getting nutts. [/b][/quote]
Look at his signature....he thinks its funny. I think if those guys from CE he was throwing the chair at ever catch him in dark alley they will even the score.

And they wont miss.

I would agree.

My only trouble with this particular story is that his "getting wild" involved abusing women...

call me rosy-drguile, but that's innaceptable... throw up whereever you want, I dont give a fuck, pick fights with dangerous people, trash furniture, spend your mortgage on hookers... who cares?

But sexually abusing people? Not so good... [/b][/quote]
I tend to agree with the Welshman on this.

I honestly think this sums it up the best out of all the statements I have seen here - which is why I posted what I did "Depends alot on the various circumstances"

Just getting back into this busines a couple months in and I an tell things are much more political. Back in 97-99 hell you were a tight ass if you weren't partying so hard you threw up in the flower pots :) Little bit if an over statement but I think you get the point - Parties at conventions were just for that, partying.

Now they are for socializing, making business deals, and representing your company and what they stand for. Not to mention the comapny's ethics by the behavior of their employees. This is a much more corporate business now than it was, and should be treated a such.

I would agree.

My only trouble with this particular story is that his "getting wild" involved abusing women...

call me rosy-drguile, but that's innaceptable... throw up whereever you want, I dont give a fuck, pick fights with dangerous people, trash furniture, spend your mortgage on hookers... who cares?

But sexually abusing people? Not so good... [/b][/quote]
I concur.

If anyone remembers what you said and agreed to.

Program owners are different in the way that they represent their own financial platform and brand but I was speaking more in terms of hypocrisy / industry bounds / perception. Looking back into this thread, I may well have been better off to not cite it. It led it astray. But the fuel is somewhere, is it not? The perception is what it is for a reason? Therefore, the environment is assumed. If you hire an employee in this industry and send them to a show, they will be exposed to those environments.

My point is, he made a mistake and instead of apologizing, he insulted one of the accusers in a thread.

That is my issue with all this. Nothing more, nothing less. I do not care what people do at shows. However, it should be very clear that although this is a business like other businesses, it still isn't. You don't see girls getting whipped and cummed all over in a Venetian Suite at the Catering convention. Therefore, perception is different as it is shaped by very different marketing schemes. You all can accuse me of being naive to business, but take an opportunity to speak to me in person and I am willing to bet you retract the accusation.

HP, 3 years ago, I would have quoted your post as "dead on," but not today. All the same, no matter what I say in this thread, it will likely appear that I am supportive of idiot behavior, that is just not the case.

I know Dave, the owner of Platinum Bucks real well. He has a great product and staff. That said, I am going to drop out of this thread. I don't feel like bumping it or jumping to conclusions on what may or may not have happened with his employment is helpful to him. At the end of the day, things happen, people move on.

Theres no excuse for someone to get drunk and disorderly...man handle a feel up a woman and then when told to cool it own down talk smack back to the owmans husband. It doesnt matter if its a convention or a house party.

Where Im from its called an instant ass whipping.

Well, I am not all about beating people up, I think he (both husbands involved) did the standup thing. Like I said, I think he should have apologized to her. I think had he done that, nothing would have steamrolled. I also stated that I know her pretty well and that would have been good enough for her. She is a classy girl and a professional.

What "he did" and the extent of what we are talking about now are not really one in the same. The thread meandered a bit. If you are discussing him as an isolated event, that is not the same as your very general thread title. This is why I am weary of posting in threads like this, people tend to not understand the nuances.

I don't have enough time to explain all of that however.

Step back and take a look at the mentality dealt with in this industry. We all read the boards. Getting drunk (the general scenario) hardly matches up to the daily ignorant ramblings I see on chat boards.

I have not the time for that either.

The fact that it went to two guys toe to toe, shows that something was out of order!

So Cory, say you hit one of the shows with your girl and I cop more than a feel, would “sorry I was tanked” fix it?

I made a clear statement that I was friends with someone on the other side of the issue. I likely have deeper insight into how she felt about it than you do. No offense, I hope, taken by you.

I responded more to the general theme that the thread meandered into. I will however say that Gonzo's thread title did include the "fondling" portion in the sub-title (I just hardly read that).

Again, I don't know how to tell you that I don't support "him" in a way that you can understand. I don't appreciate his actions and clearly stated he should have apologized to her. I am not the type to go on chat forums and talk about how I would beat some ass. It just isn't me. But if "beat some ass" translates into I don't approve, then read it as you wish.

Thread is like this:

1) Guy = isolated issue. I do not agree. Stewie not punching the guy. I agree with him. He handled it like a pro.

2) Theme of thread = General issue of drinking at shows and problems arising. I made a point regarding that.

They are seperate issues IMO. Him saying "sorry" prevents his total industry collapse, it doesn't make him and Vanilla friends. This isn't tough to understand. But that is the absolute best I can explain it to you. It isn't about "fixing" it.

If you fondled my girl at a show, I would have you escorted to the sidewalk. If you tried to attack, I would defend. It sounds like Stewie did the right thing under the circumstances he was put in. But we ALL HAVE OPINIONS.

Not to sound arrogant but I bring girls with me to parties at shows, clubs, bars, you name it. In all my time, I have never had to "beat someone down."

Again, we are all different.

If one of our associates we brought from Australia to a show got drunk, I'd leave him/her at home next time. If it was our affiliate manager, I'd fire him/her.

The shows are where you put your company on show to encourage others to do business with you. We work hard for a good reputation and I would be livid if it got trashed in one night by someone getting drunk and acting foolish. We'd be remembered as the company who did xxx at the xxx show. That's how I think of some of the past events!

It's not a soapbox thing for me. I think if it's your job to be "on" for 3-4 days a few times a year, then that's what you do.

i doubt people could tell whether im drunk or sober anyways so i wouldnt be worried ;) jk

sounds a bit bad alright .. hopefully it was a once off and doesnt happen again for the guy or the gals involved

There was a company whose reps got out of hand...really out of hand....details aren't necessary.....and they were summarily rounded up and brought home...and, then told never were they to act this way again.

The warning shot was fired and those who were smart are still with this particular company today.

The others? They're gone.

I agree with you, Cory. Had he owned up immediately and had he been so contrite and had it been a first time offense, maybe he could have kept his job. After all, everyone should be allowed one fuck up, as long as the damage is controllable.

Sometimes, it's not the actual mistake. It's what happens after the mistake. Unfortunately, as you've stated, he compounded his. And, while I'm sure he's a sweetie, the bottom line is the bottom line, which is set by Dave, who owns the company.

I think you also bring up a good point. When I started going to shows, I had to find that level of 'buzz' where I could be nice and loose; but, not ineffective....there are those who can get drunk and still remain 'with it'..and, there are those who simply cannot handle liquor or drugs or whatever the substance is.

I do believe that every rep should have boundaries set forth by the owner prior to the show.....then, should something like this happen, the rep, at least, has a definition of acceptable behaviour.

Ryan. I was in the biz three years before attending a show, so even in 2000, some of the 'display's were awesome to watch.....:)